Overall Isolation - network, USB, and power

[Duke40]

Patience. [emoji851]

 

I have a busy weekend of listening ahead.

 

Aha, the plot thickens [emoji6]

 

Yes, i also need to get some critical listening in sometime this weekend so i can articulate what the Vinnie Rossi MINI provides. Higher resolution & clarity, more detail, better imaging, bass improved ( sounds richer & more defined), are my initial thoughts.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

Cool!

 

Btw - I have no issue powering the MC200CM with 7V from LPS-1. I have previously used Jameco both 5V and 9V.

 

Should not be a problem.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

My MC210CS FMCs can work with DC input as low as 4V, but my MC110CS FMCs require a minimum of 7V. I tried going lower but the MC110CS quit working at 6.8V.

[Cornan]

Cool!

 

Btw - I have no issue powering the MC200CM with 7V from LPS-1. I have previously used Jameco both 5V and 9V.

 

Should not be a problem.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

Thanks!

I suspected that it would work despite TP-Link supports reply. Anyway, thanks for the confirmation. It will make my heart beat much slower when changing to my coming 7,4-8,4v battery supply. A potensial life saver!

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[austinpop]

My MC210CS FMCs can work with DC input as low as 4V, but my MC110CS FMCs require a minimum of 7V. I tried going lower but the MC110CS quit working at 6.8V.

 

Thanks!

I suspected that it would work despite TP-Link supports reply. Anyway, thanks for the confirmation. It will make my heart beat much slower when changing to my coming 7,4-8,4v battery supply. A potensial life saver!

 

Guys,

 

I'm surprised by scan's findings. According to this data sheet, they all say External Power Adapter, 9V/0.6A or 5V/1A.

 

Let me be very precise what worked for me:

 

MC200CM (gigabit FMC): Jameco 5V, Jameco 9V, Teralink X1/X2 9V, El cheapo Breeze dialed to 7.8V (long story), LPS-1 7V

MC100CM (100Mb): Jameco 9V, LPS-1 7V

 

With the MC100CM I only used them with what the optimal PSes I already had with the MC200CM, and then I set them aside.

 

So net net - I have not tried the MC100CM at 5V. But moot point for Micael, it would seem.

[Cornan]

Guys,

 

I'm surprised by scan's findings. According to this data sheet, they all say External Power Adapter, 9V/0.6A or 5V/1A.

 

Let me be very precise what worked for me:

 

MC200CM (gigabit FMC): Jameco 5V, Jameco 9V, Teralink X1/X2 9V, El cheapo Breeze dialed to 7.8V (long story), LPS-1 7V

MC100CM (100Mb): Jameco 9V, LPS-1 7V

 

With the MC100CM I only used them with what the optimal PSes I already had with the MC200CM, and then I set them aside.

 

So net net - I have not tried the MC100CM at 5V. But moot point for Micael, it would seem.

I can already without fiber cable confirm that 5v works with MC100CM. I will also confirm back 7,4-8,4 V when I have got the battery supply in hand. I'll guess it is roughly 4-10v.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[d_elm]

I can already without fiber cable confirm that 5v works with MC100CM. I will also confirm back 7,4-8,4 V when I have got the battery supply in hand. I'll guess it is roughly 4-10v.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

I found with an LPS-1 powering an MC100CM SQ was better at 5v than at 7v.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

I can already without fiber cable confirm that 5v works with MC100CM. I will also confirm back 7,4-8,4 V when I have got the battery supply in hand. I'll guess it is roughly 4-10v.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

This suggests that MC100CM and MC110CS are different designs with different minimal input voltage requirements.

 

I don't have any MC100CM, which I would have opened up to compare with MC110CS.

[d_elm]

I will post a picture of the MC100CM board.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

[scan80269]

I have observed that devices that feature internal switching regulators can have a wide DC input voltage range. When fed a higher DC voltage, the current consumption is lower than when fed a lower DC voltage.

 

An interesting question is given a specific device (e.g. microRendu), is the sound better with high V / low I or low V / high I? I can imagine the answer being on a device-by-device basis or perhaps even system-by-system basis, requiring listening to compare.

[Cornan]

I found with an LPS-1 powering an MC100CM SQ was better at 5v than at 7v.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

To me that makes sense. I would prefer lower voltage rather than higher close to the source.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[scan80269]

To me that makes sense. I would prefer lower voltage rather than higher close to the source.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

Until recently I also thought that lower input voltage should translate to better sound, but I got hit with a couple of counterexamples:

 

(1) replaced Auralic LPS 16V with Vinnie Rossi MINI LPS 12V for Aries Femto

 

(2) replaced stock Netgear FS105v3 switch powered by Teradak 12V LPS with modified FS105v3 (low-noise linear regulator inside) power by Teradak 5V LPS.

 

In each case there was an audible SQ degradation, and my friend and I went back and forth several times to ensure what we heard was not a fluke.

 

One hypothesis here is that higher input current level (w/ lower input voltage) may translate to more board-level electrical noise. Things may not be quite that simple, however.

[lmitche]

Until recently I also thought that lower input voltage should translate to better sound, but I got hit with a couple of counterexamples:

 

(1) replaced Auralic LPS 16V with Vinnie Rossi MINI LPS 12V for Aries Femto

 

(2) replaced stock Netgear FS105v3 switch powered by Teradak 12V LPS with modified FS105v3 (low-noise linear regulator inside) power by Teradak 5V LPS.

 

In each case there was an audible SQ degradation, and my friend and I went back and forth several times to ensure what we heard was not a fluke.

 

One hypothesis here is that higher input current level (w/ lower input voltage) may translate to more board-level electrical noise. Things may not be quite that simple, however.

This is consistent with my observations here, especially the FMCs.

[tboooe]

Until recently I also thought that lower input voltage should translate to better sound, but I got hit with a couple of counterexamples:

 

(1) replaced Auralic LPS 16V with Vinnie Rossi MINI LPS 12V for Aries Femto

 

(2) replaced stock Netgear FS105v3 switch powered by Teradak 12V LPS with modified FS105v3 (low-noise linear regulator inside) power by Teradak 5V LPS.

 

In each case there was an audible SQ degradation, and my friend and I went back and forth several times to ensure what we heard was not a fluke.

 

One hypothesis here is that higher input current level (w/ lower input voltage) may translate to more board-level electrical noise. Things may not be quite that simple, however.

This is something I noticed too when I first got my PS Audio P3 AC regenerator. I am not an electrical engineer so I am not sure if my experience is analogous to what @scan80269 posted but here goes. My P3 allows me to adjust the output voltage to any of the devices connected to it. A few years ago when I first got the P3 I messed around with the output voltage and found that the closer I was to 120VAC, the music sounded more clear and energetic. I am not saying it was a huge difference but I could definitely hear it. At the end, I settled on 116VAC out.

 

Does my experience make sense for AC versus DC?

[austinpop]

I found with an LPS-1 powering an MC100CM SQ was better at 5v than at 7v.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile

 

I'm powering MC200CM at 7V now. Will add the 5V vs 7V experiment to my list and report back.

[Cornan]

Until recently I also thought that lower input voltage should translate to better sound, but I got hit with a couple of counterexamples:

 

(1) replaced Auralic LPS 16V with Vinnie Rossi MINI LPS 12V for Aries Femto

 

(2) replaced stock Netgear FS105v3 switch powered by Teradak 12V LPS with modified FS105v3 (low-noise linear regulator inside) power by Teradak 5V LPS.

 

In each case there was an audible SQ degradation, and my friend and I went back and forth several times to ensure what we heard was not a fluke.

 

One hypothesis here is that higher input current level (w/ lower input voltage) may translate to more board-level electrical noise. Things may not be quite that simple, however.

 

I agree on one thing. It is not that simple! IMO power hungry devices like the source, conversion and power needs as high voltage (but especially amperage) as possible for the task (all depending on construction ofcourse)..but the connected devices needs to run on low voltage power or rather passively if possible. Battery power or Ultracap will make this into less of a problem since I personally blame DC pollution through the ground connections (ie. via shielding as well).

As far as I see it the source, DAC and amp needs high voltage & high A power...but what should be "invisable devices" like ethernet devices, USB cleaners, isolators etc before, in between and after these devices needs to be powered "gentle" and as "invisible as possible".

The very best solution IMO is to power all the power hungry devices with AC mains and remaining devices passively or by low voltage DC power supplies totally isolated from AC mains. Just my couple of cents.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[d_elm]

Image of MC100CM board

 

 

Image of MC200CM board

[YashN]

Until recently I also thought that lower input voltage should translate to better sound

 

It would be implementation-dependent: lower-power can also produce less RFI/EMI in a device, but you could also put a device's internal power distribution out of regulation with too low a voltage. Which is bigger is probably what's dependent on implementation.

 

You certainly want to avoid having your devices run out-of-regulation.

[Cornan]

It would be implementation-dependent: lower-power can also produce less RFI/EMI in a device, but you could also put a device's internal power distribution out of regulation with too low a voltage. Which is bigger is probably what's dependent on implementation.

 

You certainly want to avoid having your devices run out-of-regulation.

Agree. But for example with the option of linear regulated 5v supply and a 7,4v unregulated supply I would personally always pick the unregulated one and make sure never to drop below 5v. It is all about what makes the worst noises in the end.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[YashN]

But for example with the option of linear regulated 5v supply and a 7,4v unregulated supply I would personally always pick the unregulated one and make sure never to drop below 5v. It is all about what makes the worst noises in the end.

 

You have to characterise both your device and the linear power supply for that: the device could have further internal regulators, or maybe it doesn't.

 

You aren't mentioning here that your 'unregulated' is actually a battery implementation - people might get the wrong impression that an unregulated supply is always better, which isn't the case.

 

A Linear, Regulated supply has lower noise, better ripple rejection and can be made even better, compared to a mains unregulated power supply.

 

About the only way an unregulated psu from the mains can be better is if you mistakenly used an under-powered linear regulated psu to put the load device out-of-regulation, in which case, it can sound worse...

You posted about the LH USB cable + battery earlier - it uses a battery with regulation...

[Cornan]

You have to characterise both your device and the linear power supply for that: the device could have further internal regulators, or maybe it doesn't.

 

You aren't mentioning here that your 'unregulated' is actually a battery implementation - people might get the wrong impression that an unregulated supply is always better, which isn't the case.

 

A Linear, Regulated supply has lower noise, better ripple rejection and can be made even better, compared to a mains unregulated power supply.

 

About the only way an unregulated psu from the mains can be better is if you mistakenly used an under-powered linear regulated psu to put the load device out-of-regulation, in which case, it can sound worse...

You posted about the LH USB cable + battery earlier - it uses a battery with regulation...

 

It will be impossible to find a 7,4v unregulated linear mains PSU.

I posted the LH 20g with battery because I find it interesting. Not enough interesting to buy it, but interesting because it have some similarities with my own findings in USB cable design. Still a few steps back to be a purchase in my world...but still a good step forward in the USB cable industry.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[scan80269]

Image of MC110CS board:

 

Image of MC210CS board:

[YashN]

It will be impossible to find a 7,4v unregulated linear mains PSU.

 

Not impossible in my workshop. Actually, I could have that precise value tonight if I wanted to.

[Cornan]

Not impossible in my workshop. Actually, I could have that precise value tonight if I wanted to.

How much? ?

Image of MC110CS board:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]31941[/ATTACH]

 

Image of MC210CS board:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]31942[/ATTACH]

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[scan80269]

I think I know why my MC110CS has a higher minimum DC input voltage than MC100CM, MC200CM & MC210CS. The MC110CS has an extra bridge rectifier (made with 4 discrete 1N4004 diodes) in line with DC input jack. This causes the input DC voltage to be lowered by more than 1V. With this bridge rectifier, it looks like this MC110CS can work with reversed polarity DC or even AC input! I'm not going to try though.

 

These TP-Link FMCs all appear to feature one internal switching regulator, plus one or two LDO linear regulators downstream from the switcher to generate lower voltage rails. The internal switcher explains the DC input voltage latitude.

[Foggie]

Well I will forgo my daily afternoon Don Perignon today and splunk for a ClearFog (ordered) -- let's see if this can work

 

Curious if you had a chance to experiment with the ClearFog? I totally missed this item being mentioned, but this would seem to be an awesome product for an NAA!

 

I'm running fiber from switch to media converter then eth to mini. Would be cool to go direct sfp w/o media converter.

 

What are the issues/limitations as of right now (does there have to be a new image created as opposed to using the cubox naa image)