Altabay Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, Evo-No-Revo said: If the SU-1 is sitting on top of the Holo Spring by itself, would this cable have the flexibility to go out of the SU-1 into the Holo Spring? Yes, it works but the cable has to be twisted to make it work and ends up putting a slight torque on the HDMI ports. It's probably okay, but I'm not entirely happy about it. Link to comment
ted_b Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I ordered one of the 1 ft ones just to test against my go-to (Nordost Silver Screen 1M). I wonder how the DH Labs ones would do...they have/had a model that had swivel (up and down, not 180 degrees) connectors so the pressure would be less. I have one on one of my video connections, I may try and report back. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Evo-No-Revo Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 This one has flexible connectors but only comes in 1 meter and up lengths. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/wire/cable/supra-high-speed-hd5-v.2-met-s/b-hdmi-hdmi-cable-single/ Vinyl Nirvana Thorens 125 MKII+EAT JO No5 w/ SoundSmith Boran Cantilever>Gold Note PH5+HDPlex 500 ATX+ HDPlex 300>Custom W10 Server>Roon Rock>Euphony Stylus v4+Endpoint v4 Atom/JCAT XE USB>ISO Regen> Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 w/ RoomPerfect>GR Research NX-Studio + Rythmik F18 Servo Sub "Get Off Your Knee, Burn The Mask And Please Wake Up....You Have Been Lied To About Everything...And I Mean Everything" Link to comment
tboooe Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 18 hours ago, Altabay said: Another question I have is the cable length. The SU-1 has to be pulled forward to allow enough room for the ISO REGEN connected with the 90-degree USPCB to rest on the Spring DAC chassis. I think a 0.3m cable could work if the HDMI ports of the DAC and the SU-1 are vertically aligned to minimize the reach, but the cable would have to be flexible enough to avoid putting too much strain on the HDMI ports. @Superdad, do you have any thoughts on this? I am having a little trouble visualizing this. Instead of pulling the SU-1 forward why not push it as far back as possible so that the rear of the SU-1 and Spring DAC are aligned. Then use something like a small block of wood to support the IsoRegen? I use a 0.3m Wireworld Ultraviolet cable and aligned the HDMI ports. There is nothing directly below the SU-1 USB input port so there should be no interference with the IsoRegen. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
FIndingit Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 If both Singxer and Holo are lined, 10cm should be enough. And isn't "every cm counts" the first rule of i2s connections? Say NO to ROON Link to comment
tboooe Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 19 hours ago, ted_b said: I ordered one of the 1 ft ones just to test against my go-to (Nordost Silver Screen 1M). I wonder how the DH Labs ones would do...they have/had a model that had swivel (up and down, not 180 degrees) connectors so the pressure would be less. I have one on one of my video connections, I may try and report back. I've toyed with the idea of getting two 90 degree HDMI adapters. That would allow the hdmi cable to connect vertically to the SU-1 and Spring DAC without the need for any sort of bend anywhere. This would also allow someone to perhaps make a super short HDMI cable. Here is what I am thinking: 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
barrows Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 LVDS I2S transmission is different from HDMI transmission, it just happens to use an HDMI cable. LVDS !2S transmission is perfectly symmetrical differential signaling, and as such going to extreme short cable lengths is very unlikely to give any benefits. I would advise that component placement should be prioritized over I2S cable lengths. You do not want your components so close together that the fields from their power supplies could couple with each other. So, first, arrange your components such that they have reasonable distance from each other, then second choose the shortest I2S cable which works reasonably with this arrangement. As to cable quality and using high end cables, some high end cables will indeed improve performance, but this will not be true across the board because all of these cables are engineered to make HDMI signaling improved, so some of them may have "features" which do not apply to the LVDS i2S signal. I would emphasize two priorities when looking for the right LVDS i2S cable: first speed of transmission, and second equal propagation delay across all signal lines (keeping the balanced signal perfectly balanced), things like shielding (extremely important for HDMI due to the embedded nature of video and digital audio signals on the same cable) are not nearly as important for LVDS I2S. In fact, an unshielded cable with better square wave response might be better in some system environments (shields add capacitance, which blurs square wave edges). Superdad 1 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Popular Post barrows Posted May 1, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, tboooe said: I've toyed with the idea of getting two 90 degree HDMI adapters. That would allow the hdmi cable to connect vertically to the SU-1 and Spring DAC without the need for any sort of bend anywhere. This would also allow someone to perhaps make a super short HDMI cable. Here is what I am thinking: Bad idea, adapters will introduce much more signal distortion than a single normal length cable. In almost every case, connectors are the weak point of any cable, adding additional connections its a bad idea. Forehaven and tboooe 2 SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
tboooe Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, barrows said: Bad idea, adapters will introduce much more signal distortion than a single normal length cable. In almost every case, connectors are the weak point of any cable, adding additional connections its a bad idea. You've shattered my dream of a 2" HDMI cable... 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 47 minutes ago, barrows said: Bad idea, adapters will introduce much more signal distortion than a single normal length cable. In almost every case, connectors are the weak point of any cable, adding additional connections its a bad idea. +1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Bimmer100 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Evo-No-Revo said: This one has flexible connectors but only comes in 1 meter and up lengths. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/wire/cable/supra-high-speed-hd5-v.2-met-s/b-hdmi-hdmi-cable-single/ Supra makes this in 0.5M and up actually... and what I use in my own setup. Check Ebay. Some resellers do not carry the shorter length for whatever reason. Just look around. Tim Connor KitsuneHifi.com / HoloAudio USA Link to comment
T-Bone Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 11 hours ago, Evo-No-Revo said: This one has flexible connectors but only comes in 1 meter and up lengths. I use a Supra 0.5M HDMI cable too. The "angled shell" isn't standard. You can purchase it as an option and remove the standard "shell" and replace it with an angled kit. I've got some fitment pix posted here and here Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 1 hour ago, barrows said: I would emphasize two priorities when looking for the right LVDS i2S cable: first speed of transmission, and second equal propagation delay across all signal lines (keeping the balanced signal perfectly balanced), things like shielding (extremely important for HDMI due to the embedded nature of video and digital audio signals on the same cable) are not nearly as important for LVDS I2S. That is what I worry most about my wonderful sounding (up til now) Nordost Silver Screen HDMI. It's speed spec is nearly 7 years old, and although built very well, is shielded very well too. Does anyone know if there is a ultra fast modern HDMi unshileded? P.S Searched for HD5 .5M on ebay, nothing so far. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Bimmer100 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 ask the seller on ebay. he is the supra dealer in our area here. Tim Connor KitsuneHifi.com / HoloAudio USA Link to comment
barrows Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, ted_b said: That is what I worry most about my wonderful sounding (up til now) Nordost Silver Screen HDMI. It's speed spec is nearly 7 years old, and although built very well, is shielded very well too. Does anyone know if there is a ultra fast modern HDMi unshileded? P.S Searched for HD5 .5M on ebay, nothing so far. Hey Ted, I doubt anyone would really make an unshielded HDMI cable (maybe Mapleshade?) I just brought it up as an idea really. Nordost has new, made in US high speed HDMI cables. I have not tried them, but theoretically their construction should (monofilament wrap equalling mostly air dielectric) result in very fast propagation speeds and good square wave response. If I was using LVDS/I2S I would experiment with those. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. SONORE computer audio | opticalRendu | ultraRendu | microRendu | Signature Rendu SE | Accessories | Software | Link to comment
Altabay Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 Is the better clock the only benefit of the SU-1 over the Spring's USB input? If so, are we better off upgrading the USB clock? @scan80269, you talked about removing the USB clock temporarily. Do you plan to upgrade it, and perhaps compare it to your final modded SU-1? Link to comment
scan80269 Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 12 hours ago, Altabay said: Is the better clock the only benefit of the SU-1 over the Spring's USB input? If so, are we better off upgrading the USB clock? @scan80269, you talked about removing the USB clock temporarily. Do you plan to upgrade it, and perhaps compare it to your final modded SU-1? The Spring DAC uses crystals, not oscillators, and has its own oscillation circuitry. An effective upgrade of Spring clocks involves the use of replacement crystals with better performance than the stock crystals. As hardly any crystal manufacturer provides phase noise plots with their products, it is impossible to guarantee any off-the-shelf crystals being superior to the stock ones. What I did experimentally on my Spring was to remove one of the audio reference crystals, specifically the 22.5792MHz crystal used for 44.1/88.2/176.4/352.8K sampling rates. This was only intended to determine how the Spring utilizes its internal audio clocks. I did not mess with the Spring's USB clock (24MHz). The two audio clocks (22.5792MHz and 24.576MHz) happen to be used by the Spring DAC only in conjunction with its USB input. For Spring users, using a modified SU-1 to drive I2S (with very good clocks) into the Spring is a relatively straightforward upgrade over the Spring's USB input, without needing to modify the Spring itself. Link to comment
Miska Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 1 hour ago, scan80269 said: What I did experimentally on my Spring was to remove one of the audio reference crystals, specifically the 22.5792MHz crystal used for 44.1/88.2/176.4/352.8K sampling rates. This was only intended to determine how the Spring utilizes its internal audio clocks. I did not mess with the Spring's USB clock (24MHz). The two audio clocks (22.5792MHz and 24.576MHz) happen to be used by the Spring DAC only in conjunction with its USB input. For Spring users, using a modified SU-1 to drive I2S (with very good clocks) into the Spring is a relatively straightforward upgrade over the Spring's USB input, without needing to modify the Spring itself. I measured mine with the USB input, and given the pretty good results I would be interested to see some real world measurements as proof of external clocks actually improving the situation... At least I don't feel like having a pressing need to get one. mikicasellas 1 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
bibo01 Posted May 4, 2017 Author Share Posted May 4, 2017 33 minutes ago, Miska said: I measured mine with the USB input, and given the pretty good results I would be interested to see some real world measurements as proof of external clocks actually improving the situation... At least I don't feel like having a pressing need to get one. Are you talking about Holo Spring or SU-1? How curious are you? Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 32 minutes ago, bibo01 said: Are you talking about Holo Spring or SU-1? Holo Spring Level 2 dac. He got it a few days ago. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
eltee00 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Have you guys played around with different HDMI cables? I'm just using a really cheap generic HDMI cable I use for my DVD player and is wondering if it makes sense to invest in one of those short run cables from Kitsune. Link to comment
tboooe Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 1 minute ago, eltee00 said: Have you guys played around with different HDMI cables? I'm just using a really cheap generic HDMI cable I use for my DVD player and is wondering if it makes sense to invest in one of those short run cables from Kitsune. I have tried 3 different ones including the $10 one from Kitsune. I felt the Wireworld Ultraviolet sounded best. I am now curious if moving up the chain a bit to the Starlight would improve things further. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
Evo-No-Revo Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 On 5/5/2017 at 7:50 AM, tboooe said: I have tried 3 different ones including the $10 one from Kitsune. I felt the Wireworld Ultraviolet sounded best. I am now curious if moving up the chain a bit to the Starlight would improve things further. Did you ever try the Starlight HDMI cable? Vinyl Nirvana Thorens 125 MKII+EAT JO No5 w/ SoundSmith Boran Cantilever>Gold Note PH5+HDPlex 500 ATX+ HDPlex 300>Custom W10 Server>Roon Rock>Euphony Stylus v4+Endpoint v4 Atom/JCAT XE USB>ISO Regen> Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 w/ RoomPerfect>GR Research NX-Studio + Rythmik F18 Servo Sub "Get Off Your Knee, Burn The Mask And Please Wake Up....You Have Been Lied To About Everything...And I Mean Everything" Link to comment
tboooe Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Evo-No-Revo said: Did you ever try the Starlight HDMI cable? Unfortunately I have not though I still want to. I have just had more pressing priorities for my system. I am hopeful I can refocus and try out the Starlight during this summer. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
Curves Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Is anyone driving the Holo DAC with an sMS-200? Do you experience pops with Native DSD? Link to comment
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