Focusrite REDNet

[rafa]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

Note that multi-homed (computer with more than one network interface) setups are potentially very problematic. For running internet firewall machine, having two interfaces makes sense, for running regular network node, it doesn't.

 

There is no advantage in using direct connection with networking gear, it usually causes much more problems than it solves. Networking gear is fully equipped to deal with different types of traffic on a single interface with support for QoS etc. Just use a good quality gigabit ethernet switch and your are fine...

 

For computer software, yes. But in audiophile world some thinks are never obvious.

[Miska]

21 minutes ago, rafa said:

For computer software, yes. But in audiophile world some thinks are never obvious.

 

Audio engineering is hard science...

 

[rafa]

No daub 

[mourip]

19 hours ago, Miska said:

Note that multi-homed (computer with more than one network interface) setups are potentially very problematic. For running internet firewall machine, having two interfaces makes sense, for running regular network node, it doesn't.

 

There is no advantage in using direct connection with networking gear, it usually causes much more problems than it solves. Networking gear is fully equipped to deal with different types of traffic on a single interface with support for QoS etc. Just use a good quality gigabit ethernet switch and your are fine...

 

 

Thanks for the input. My D16 has two network ports and I do have the option to hook my LAN link up to it. I did have it set up that way originally but my thinking was to limit any traffic between the server and D16 to just audio.

 

I will give it a try. Like my signature says "Don't believe everything you think" ?

[Miska]

5 hours ago, mourip said:

Thanks for the input. My D16 has two network ports and I do have the option to hook my LAN link up to it. I did have it set up that way originally but my thinking was to limit any traffic between the server and D16 to just audio.

 

I meant removing or disabling second ethernet interface from the computer and connecting both the computer and Dante device to the same gigabit switch with one cable and neither one having any other connections. It's like a star with the switch in the middle. When setup this way, D16 won't see any other than audio traffic either. Your computer's port will have audio and it's own internet traffic mixed, but that's not a problem.

 

Point of having a switch is that each device sees only traffic intended for them, nothing else, even though they participate in the same network...

 

[mourip]

On 9/26/2018 at 3:39 AM, Miska said:

 

I meant removing or disabling second ethernet interface from the computer and connecting both the computer and Dante device to the same gigabit switch with one cable and neither one having any other connections. It's like a star with the switch in the middle. When setup this way, D16 won't see any other than audio traffic either. Your computer's port will have audio and it's own internet traffic mixed, but that's not a problem.

 

Point of having a switch is that each device sees only traffic intended for them, nothing else, even though they participate in the same network...

 

 

Thanks for the input. Focusrite suggested the same thing although they said that the way I had it wired should have worked. This morning I rearranged things and will see how it goes. I just don't want to trade off the SQ gains I have made by keeping my audio chain isolated and off of SMPS's. I used a spare Cisco SG200-8 switch and have the server and D16 plugged into it and an FMC with fiber out going out to the rest of my LAN. I did learn that not all ethernet cables are created equal when plugged into my D16. To my surprise an inexpensive uGreen CAT7 cable from Amazon is the best so far.

 

Generally the D16 drops off of Rednet Control after about 2 days so we will see what happens.

 

Regarding SMPSs, I do still have just one in my audio chain. It is in my Linear Tube Audio Ultralinear amp whose design is licensed under David Berning. It pretty much proves that the issue is usually the quality of the engineering, and not a simple catch-all theory. The UL sounds remarkable.

[Miska]

I don't have reason to avoid SMPS, Focusrite units also have SMPS... I have SMPS and LPS powered units behind separate power filters though.

 

Ethernet itself isolates, unless you use shielded cables. So make sure you use UTP cables...

[mourip]

On 9/26/2018 at 3:39 AM, Miska said:

 

I meant removing or disabling second ethernet interface from the computer and connecting both the computer and Dante device to the same gigabit switch with one cable and neither one having any other connections. It's like a star with the switch in the middle. When setup this way, D16 won't see any other than audio traffic either. Your computer's port will have audio and it's own internet traffic mixed, but that's not a problem.

 

Point of having a switch is that each device sees only traffic intended for them, nothing else, even though they participate in the same network...

 

 

Following your suggestion and Focurite's I re-configuring both my server and D16 go through a Cisco switch with the only other connection on the switch going to the LAN. Today I found that Rednet Control once again dropped both the server and the D16.

 

As usually happens I was playing music when I coincidentally used RDP to check the server and found RC in that disconnected state. Once I stopped the music it would not restart until I restarted the Dante services. It took about 3 days before dropping this time.

 

It would seem that the way in which the ethernet connections are made is not the issue. It was a good suggestion however.

 

Thanks!
 

[mourip]

I am continuing to work with Focusrite on the Rednet Control dropout issue. They suggested that I uninstall Rednet Control and run Wireshark, a network protocol analyzer, to monitor one of the ports for issues. In the process I have learned a few things.

 

First, you do not need to run Rednet Control or even have it installed once you have your Dante system configured. It is mainly for monitoring and making changes for Pro Audio. If you leave Dante Controller installed you can still tell if there are issues. I also found that my version of Dante Controller was a bit old. I guess that I had not been keeping that part updated. So far my system has not lost contact with my D16. I am close to the 2 day mark at which point things usually drop so I will see how it goes. I left both of my ethernet connections connected to a Cisco SG200 which is powered by an LPS and has its LAN connection provided over fiber optic to ensure ground isolation.

 

The really good news is that I am using Roon now and it sounds much better than JRMC plus rate following is working perfectly. I am playing each track at its native rate and my SQ has never been better.

[jelt2359]

So sample rate follow works without Rednet Control running?

[mourip]

3 hours ago, jelt2359 said:

So sample rate follow works without Rednet Control running?

 

Yes. It works fine without Rednet Control even installed.You just need to install it in order to set the initial configuration.

 

For Pro Audio it can be useful for monitoring a complex system or making changes on the fly but for us it really is not needed once the config is established.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, mourip said:

I left both of my ethernet connections connected to a Cisco SG200 which is powered by an LPS and has its LAN connection provided over fiber optic to ensure ground isolation.

 

By the way, it likely has 802.3x Ethernet flow-control disabled by default. For my network audio stuff, people were having issues with this switch, until we realized that the flow-control support was disabled by default. After enabling it all the problems disappeared. You could try enabling that and see if it changes anything. At least it doesn't cost anything to try...

 

These switches discard flow-control packets is the support is disabled, sometimes causing excessive packet loss. This shouldn't matter for protocols like AES-67 / RAVENNA / Dante, but still...

[mourip]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

By the way, it likely has 802.3x Ethernet flow-control disabled by default. For my network audio stuff, people were having issues with this switch, until we realized that the flow-control support was disabled by default. After enabling it all the problems disappeared. You could try enabling that and see if it changes anything. At least it doesn't cost anything to try...

 

These switches discard flow-control packets is the support is disabled, sometimes causing excessive packet loss. This shouldn't matter for protocols like AES-67 / RAVENNA / Dante, but still...

 

Color me bummed...

My system went off -line this afternoon once again and I had to reboot it. It sure sounds great for the two days before it habitually goes off line. I guess that I will start up Wireshark for the Focusrite folks. The good news is that it does seem to work without RC installed...

 

I hate to be dim but is that a setting in the switch config or in my network card properties?

 

Thanks!

 

[Miska]

6 hours ago, mourip said:

I hate to be dim but is that a setting in the switch config or in my network card properties?

 

It is setting in the switch...

[jelt2359]

Interesting. Previously when I tried it sample rate follow did not work without rednet control open... is your Dante controller open?

[mourip]

1 hour ago, jelt2359 said:

Interesting. Previously when I tried it sample rate follow did not work without rednet control open... is your Dante controller open?

 

It is closed.

[mourip]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It is setting in the switch...

 

Thanks a lot. I will give that a try.

[mourip]

I tried turning on Flow Control. There were settings on both my NIC and the managed switch. No joy. After two days the connections dropped from RC once again. Restarting the services brought them back. Odd that the pattern is roughly every two days even with a change from Windows Server 2012 to 2016.

 

I am still working on this with Focusrite. They want me to set up WireShark to capture activity on a couple of ports.

 

Two questions for anyone else with this problem. Do you use Audiophile Optimizer and what operating system are you using?

 

Thanks!

[Miska]

Likely a firmware bug then that just causes the thing to crash (possibly after a resource leak)...

[mourip]

On 10/13/2018 at 1:27 PM, mourip said:

 

Yes. It works fine without Rednet Control even installed.You just need to install it in order to set the initial configuration.

 

For Pro Audio it can be useful for monitoring a complex system or making changes on the fly but for us it really is not needed once the config is established.

 

I finally got a chance to setup WireShark to capture information on two ports of interest. Hopefully this will give Audinate(Dante) Support a couple more data points. They have been very good about staying with me on this issue.

 

Miska. I agree with you about the possibility of a resource leak. Oddly, in Rednet Control both the D16 and my server both drop off the list which makes me inclined to think that it is a software issue. Also restarting the associated services via a .bat file allows the D16 and server to show back up in Rednet Control. Starting and stopping Dante Virtual Soundcard(DVS) does not revive RC. Restarting the server will accomplish the same thing however I never need to restart the D16.

 

<Restart_DVS.bat>

net stop conmon
net stop DanteDiscovery
net stop dvs.manager
net start conmon
net start DanteDiscovery
net start dvs.manager

[bexi]

Anyone still using REDnet?

 

I am (still) trying to get Focusrite and Audinate to fix that same old recovery from sleep bug. After a year from last contact I am still the only one who has contacted Focusrite or Audinate. They have repeated that bug, but as I am the only one who suffers from it - understandably they are not in a hurry.

 

So, please be in contact to Focusrite so we could get this one fixed properly.

 

That script works for a workaround, but it is still annoying to do almost every time I use PC.