Mystery revealed: UpTone Audio "UltraCap™ LPS-1"

[Superdad]

Sounds to me as a very ambitous schedule based on that you won't experience any setback. I am impressed if you are able to pull this off without delay.

 

Yes, I'll be impressed too!

[Distinctive]

I quote myself just to say that the said monster battery now has been ordered.

I will also try the 9V output directly on the uRendu and compare with the LPS-1.

Excerpt from dialogue with battery manufacturer Intecro (Dipl. Eng.):

<Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for your email. We try to answer your question. However, they are very specific and do reach in areas which there is not a lot of experience available.

 

These questions relates to high fidelity audio;

 

1) While the SMPS charging the battery is connected to mains while the load is hooked up, will any noise superimpose onto the DC output? -> A customer’s feedback in the past was “no”. But this was for a different model.

 

2) With the SMPS charging the battery disconnected from battery, will any noise from the battery control/regulating circuit superimpose onto the DC output? -> same as above

 

3) What is the figure for the output impedance on the battery DC output? -> not known

Charts showing the magnitudes are most welcome.

 

Performance/Worries (derived from Amazon user experiences/FAQ):

 

A) There exists claims that the battery type used constitute a fire hazard – any comments to this? -> all lithium batteries have the potential to catch fire, like any chemical mix if not used properly. The battery has electronic circuits to protect the cells from harm. There should be no mechanical damage or fluid in contact with the battery. Please refer to the accompanying user manual for additional information regarding the safety.

 

B) The battery apparently seems to discharge very rapidly (<2-3 days), still if no load are connected – any comments to this? -> If you have the dc connector plugged in, then the battery stays always on. In this case you lose 30% of the capacity per day.

 

C) Quite a few people have reported misc. problems with their unit. I understand that the MP-50000 is fairly new in your product portfolio and wonder if all of those bugs now are mitigated? -> This is difficult to answer, as we would have to look at a specific case / experience.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Best regards,>

[sandyk]

A question for John Swenson.

Given that an Ultracap based power supply will by definition have a very large value of capacitance in the FARAD range, what is the start up delay from switch on until reaching full output voltage?

Some applications are time sensitive, and any relatively large start up delay may cause problems.

I am thinking specifically here about computer applications etc.

 

Regards

Alex

[JohnSwenson]

A question for John Swenson.

Given that an Ultracap based power supply will by definition have a very large value of capacitance in the FARAD range, what is the start up delay from switch on until reaching full output voltage?

Some applications are time sensitive, and any relatively large start up delay may cause problems.

I am thinking specifically here about computer applications etc.

 

Regards

Alex

 

Very good question.

 

Currently there is a 1 minute delay from when the feeder voltage is applied until the output is turned on. There is no slow "ramp up" on the output voltage. Before normal operation can commence both cap strings have to be charged. During this initial charge the output is turned off (zero volts). When both strings are fully charged the supply enters normal mode and the output is turned on.

 

The initial charge takes longer than usual because it is starting from zero. During normal operation the strings only discharge a partial amount (the string voltage has to stay above the dropout voltage of the bank regulator) so the charging has a much smaller distance to go.

 

So yes there is a one minute delay from when the feeder voltage is applied, but the output is zero during that time. The actual ramp up of voltage on the output is the normal turn on time for the linear regulator.

 

John S.

[sdube]

I asked the same question earlier.

 

John would explain more in detail but as I understand from the explanation that he gave on the other thread, if you are using both the outputs of JS-2, putting the LSP-1 in front is very beneficial as it breaks and isolates the ground.

 

Here are some details between the difference between JS-2 and LSP-1

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f27-uptone-audio-sponsored/uptone-audio-regen-power-supply-add-24963/index28.html#post539584

 

So, would an LPS-1 be useful if the JS-2 is feeding a (1) (MMK, Uptoned) Mac Mini and (2) two Regens and an ifi USB 3, through a three-way adapter cable after the supplied custom one?

[sdube]

So, would an LPS-1 be useful if the JS-2 is feeding a (1) (MMK, Uptoned) Mac Mini and (2) two Regens and an ifi USB 3, through a three-way adapter cable after the supplied custom one?

 

Silly of me: an LPS-1 cannot feed an ifi USB 3 (9v).

[jelt2359]

How are we looking on schedule? Did the pre-production boards arrive as planned, and how's QA going so far? This seems to be the key step both cost- and time-wise.

 

On another note, are there any real-life impressions of pre-prod samples? I seemed to have read a few on the microRendu page before it was launched...

[JohnSwenson]

How are we looking on schedule? Did the pre-production boards arrive as planned, and how's QA going so far? This seems to be the key step both cost- and time-wise.

 

On another note, are there any real-life impressions of pre-prod samples? I seemed to have read a few on the microRendu page before it was launched...

 

The boards have not arrived yet, one of the parts was out of stock everywhere and there was no suitable replacement. The parts are now in and the boards getting assembled.

 

I never did any listening to the R&D boards, they were cobbled together and would never stay working for a long enough period of time to do any listening.

 

The new board should be the first time I can actually listen to it.

 

John S.

[jelt2359]

The boards have not arrived yet, one of the parts was out of stock everywhere and there was no suitable replacement. The parts are now in and the boards getting assembled.

 

I never did any listening to the R&D boards, they were cobbled together and would never stay working for a long enough period of time to do any listening.

 

The new board should be the first time I can actually listen to it.

 

John S.

 

OK, fingers crossed. I guess we're behind by a few weeks at this point then. Hopefully we're still on track for September (which was my 'realistic' timeline after reading that you guys expected mid-July)

[rickca]

The new board should be the first time I can actually listen to it.

Well, that should be exciting. Good luck, may your troubles be few.

[Pepsican]

The boards have not arrived yet, one of the parts was out of stock everywhere and there was no suitable replacement. The parts are now in and the boards getting assembled.

 

I never did any listening to the R&D boards, they were cobbled together and would never stay working for a long enough period of time to do any listening.

 

The new board should be the first time I can actually listen to it.

 

John S.

 

Because I have no idea how designing this sort of stuff works, how do you then test so that you know you have a good product? Is it just measurement taking? Or what else?

[Account Closed]

Hi Alex,

 

When the order page is put up could you add the option to order one of your special 1.5 M 5.5x2.1 - 5.5x2.1 cables at the same time as the unit itself. This would allow both to be shipped at the same time and save on shipping.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

[Superdad]

Hi Alex,

When the order page is put up could you add the option to order one of your special 1.5 M 5.5x2.1 - 5.5x2.1 cables at the same time as the unit itself. This would allow both to be shipped at the same time and save on shipping.

 

Sure Bob.

I have been meaning to put up a page for our custom Oyaide/Belden star-quad, 15AWG, shielded DC cables for some time. Since we started having them assembled by an outside firm (beautiful soldering of this time-consuming cable), I can finally offer them for sale to other than just JS-2 buyers. And I've even begun stocking a few with 5.5mm x 2.1mm at both ends (JS-2 has 5.5mm x 2.5mm output jacks so PS end has mostly been that).

 

Just to be clear though, the LPS-1 will be coming with a pretty heavy 16AWG coax DC cable, about 70mm long, with a straight 5.5mm x 2.1m at one end, and a 90-degree 5.5mm x 2.1mm at the other end. I had 1,000 of 'em custom made in China, where all such molded-end products come from.

[Superdad]

Because I have no idea how designing this sort of stuff works, how do you then test so that you know you have a good product? Is it just measurement taking? Or what else?

 

Measurements AND listening. Same as always.

[Superdad]

Getting closer gents!:

 

 

[Doak]

Getting closer gents!:

Impressive!

[audio.bill]

Very Impressive!!!

[kennyb123]

Sweet!

[Forehaven]

Beautiful Alex! Love the blue, and the batteries are way cool!

 

May I ask, off topic, what is your target audience with this LPS 1? I'm curious. To compete against other 'midpriced products like the HD Plex on one end, or to also try to compete against higher end LPs's like Sonore's, or your own product JS-2? Such a wide price on LPS's available these days, I'm just wondering what is your goal you wish to achieve with the LPS-1?

[JohnSwenson]

Beautiful Alex! Love the blue, and the batteries are way cool!

 

May I ask, off topic, what is your target audience with this LPS 1? I'm curious. To compete against other 'midpriced products like the HD Plex on one end, or to also try to compete against higher end LPs's like Sonore's, or your own product JS-2? Such a wide price on LPS's available these days, I'm just wondering what is your goal you wish to achieve with the LPS-1?

 

Those aren't batteries, they are ultra capacitors. See the first post in this thread for details.

 

John S.

[Superdad]

Beautiful Alex! Love the blue, and the batteries are way cool!

 

May I ask, off topic, what is your target audience with this LPS 1? I'm curious. To compete against other 'midpriced products like the HD Plex on one end, or to also try to compete against higher end LPs's like Sonore's, or your own product JS-2? Such a wide price on LPS's available these days, I'm just wondering what is your goal you wish to achieve with the LPS-1?

 

As John said, NO BATTERIES!! Ultra-low impedance supercapacitors/ultracapacitors.

 

To briefly answer your other question:

 

The 1 amp (at 3.3V, 5V, or 7V switch-selectable) output capability of the LPS-1 pretty much defines the market and uses of it. Any audio system device that runs on an external +DC voltage in that range, requiring not much more than an amp, will benefit from this 100% galvanically isolated, very fast, very quiet supply. Such includes small DACs, USB>S/PDIF converters, audiophile USB PCI cards, SSDs, Ethernet switches, USB>I2S boards, the REGEN, the MicroRendu, etc. For those devices, the LPS-1 could be the very best supply available.

 

The 3.3V setting may be useful to some DIYers as that is a popular voltage for board-level usage. And some DIYers may wish to make bipolar (+ & -) supplies from a pair of LPS-1 units (put in series and center tapped).

 

But the LPS-1 is not meant to compete with cheap LPS units--it will far outperform them within its current range--nor with our own 7A JS-2 choke-filtered, dual-output supply. The UltraCap™ LPS-1 will exist in its own little high-performance, modest current market. It is a first of its kind product, and it is costly to produce, so yes, its $395 price overlaps with other products.

 

The UltraCap™ LPS-1 is in a way a demonstration of the technology--and you can see from the boards and all John has explained that a bank-swtiching ultracap supply is not something simple to design like a battery or conventional LPS. Yet while the obvious next step would be to scale this up to design a whole line of UltraCap™ supplies offering higher voltages and higher current, no one should put off getting an LPS-1 while holding their breath for a bigger one.

For two reasons:

 

a) Scaling up both voltage and current will be expensive since that will require many more supercapacitor cells of much larger size (think 20+ D-battery size caps), thus a large chassis; And higher current output devices will need heatsinks as well. For a while we were sketching how to build a comparable UltraCap™ supply into a JS-2-sized chassis, but that went out the window quickly. Plus a bigger ultracap supply also needs a bigger "energizing" supply, and bundling something like a 10A/24V SMPS with it would be silly. We would want to offer our yet to be built, hybrid, power-factor-corrected energizing unit with it. That all moves into big bucks territory rather quickly, so the leap could end up between the $395 LPS-1 and a $1,900+ multi-rail, high-current, high-voltage, 2-chassis affair.

 

b) John and I are also working on several other, non-power supply related products, so an expansion of the UltraCap™ line past just the LPS-1 will have to wait for at least a year. Besides, I need more staff, more space (that is in process, the roof trusses and windows for my new building arrive next week), and more cash before we can expand the UltraCap™ line.

 

It is an exciting time for us, and we are anxious to get the LPS-1 into everyone's hands soon. Plus we have some other big surprises in store for the summer.

 

In the meantime, the robust and elegant JS-2 continues to sell out very fast each month. Yet I think there are still 3 uncommitted units available from the batch of 13 that we are finishing and testing now for shipment on June 17th.

 

Thanks all!

 

--Alex C.

 

 

 

[rickca]

 

The 1 amp (at 3.3V, 5V, or 7V switch-delectable) output capability of the LPS-1 pretty much defines the market and uses of it.

And they're edible too?

[Middy]

Have you thought of doing a crowd funder for the higher rated LPS- SC if it is do able?

By the time you get that running junior will be proof of concept.

 

One thing I don't understand is why linear have to be within the tight product spec it seems.

 

My basic thought is if it's higher than demand it should work...

 

Good luck with both builds gents

 

Dave

[Superdad]

And they're edible too?

 

LOL. (Fixed that.) Yes, ultracapacitors are a delicious high-energy snack to charge up your day. Just don't eat more than 100 Farads a day--and mind the polarity!

[Blake]

Have you thought of doing a crowd funder for the higher rated LPS- SC if it is do able?

 

Alex is a huge fan of crowd funding. Can't wait for his response... popcorn please....