Jump to content
Computer Audiophile
Superdad

Mystery revealed: UpTone Audio "UltraCap™ LPS-1"

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

jtwrace   
Indeed, it will be interesting if Jason has an other cheap psu, especially the iFi at hand to try.

 

Between, in the iFi forum thread I learned that the iFi doesn't throw back junk back to the mains.

 

"But the iPower has a 6-Element Input Array which pretty much stops noise in its tracks from going back into the mains.

 

At shows we run with +20 iPOWERs off the same spur!"

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f30-abbingdon-music-research-ifi-audio-sponsored/12v-ipower-question-25883/index2.html#post543684

 

The only one I have is the Meanwell from the REGEN but I'm not trying it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jtwrace   
No that's not it. I'll let Jason explain since he made the confusion. ;)

 

I did? One µRendu tried using the Vinnie Rossi LIO DSD Dac. Powered by the Ultracapactior LIO or the UpTone Audio JS-2.

 

Next my plan is to try the LPS-1 when it's available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Front & Rear Plate Holes & Graphics Drawing C-1 seems to show the LPS-1 in both a black and silver finish color?

 

I'd love to order it in silver to match the mRendu if possible, not a huge deal but preferable, will the LPS-1 be available in both black and silver finishes?

 

I'd probably also order one in black to match my DSPeaker 2.0 unit!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jtwrace   
The Front & Rear Plate Holes & Graphics Drawing C-1 seems to show the LPS-1 in both a black and silver finish color?

 

I'd love to order it in silver to match the mRendu if possible, not a huge deal but preferable, will the LPS-1 be available in both black and silver finishes?

 

I'd probably also order one in black to match my DSPeaker 2.0 unit!

 

That would surprise me due to the cost of having both colors. What do I know though? Nada.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pl_svn   
The LPS-1 is completely isolated. This may be advantageous in some circumstances, for example if you have a DAC which has internal galvanic isolation and you use a JS-2 to power the DAC and a REGEN, you are bypassing the isolation in the DAC because the two outputs in the JS-2 are connected to each other. If you run the REGEN, microRendu etc off the LPS-1 you preserve the isolation in the DAC. This MAY give better sound.

 

my setup is close to the one you describe John, though I'm not sure I'm in the same boat:

- Mac mini *and* Regen powered by a JS-2

- no power wires USB cable between Mac and Regen

- Regen feeding an Audiophilleo (claims galvanic isolation)

 

might the LPS-1 help?

 

thanks :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Superdad   
I did? One µRendu tried using the Vinnie Rossi LIO DSD Dac. Powered by the Ultracapactior LIO or the UpTone Audio JS-2.

 

Sorry Jason, I just think that the fellow asked if you had a INTERNAL MicroRendu in the Vinnie Rossi LIO because the $395 option you have on yours--to give a 7V DC jack on the LIO--is not shown on his website and all the other modules are internals. I would have explained it, but was on the way out with my family for my birthday dinner.

 

You are likely the only person on the planet in possession of all three of those items (MicroRendu, JS-2, and LIO system with DC output option for MicroRendu). I think it speaks well of both the JS-2 and the LIO's supercapacitor PS that the two sounded pretty much the same to you. It also bodes well for the SQ of the UltraCap LPS-1. :)

 

Thanks,

 

--Alex C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Superdad   
The Front & Rear Plate Holes & Graphics Drawing C-1 seems to show the LPS-1 in both a black and silver finish color?

 

I'd love to order it in silver to match the mRendu if possible, not a huge deal but preferable, will the LPS-1 be available in both black and silver finishes?

 

I'd probably also order one in black to match my DSPeaker 2.0 unit!

 

Sorry, black-only at this time. (The drawing was my final check print and had nothing to do with finish color.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jtwrace   

You are likely the only person on the planet in possession of all three of those items (MicroRendu, JS-2, and LIO system with DC output option for MicroRendu). I think it speaks well of both the JS-2 and the LIO's supercapacitor PS that the two sounded pretty much the same to you. It also bodes well for the SQ of the UltraCap LPS-1. :)

 

Thanks,

 

--Alex C.

I don't know if that is a good thing or just proves this hobby is crazy. As for the sq of the 2, that's why I asked the question above that you side stepped to see if there is any difference in specs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At least 2 of my devices are 9V, I think you would sell many times more units if you could also get 9 (and even 12 ) volts out of it.

 

The particular hardware implementation of the architecture (LPS-1) can only go up to 7V. Increasing the voltage means adding more ultracaps to each string and when you add caps to a string the capacitance of the string goes down, which means you need to increase the capacitance of EACH cap in the string to compensate. The result is higher cost and more room. In addition some of the parts inside would have to have higher voltage ratings which again cost more.

 

We wanted to try and keep the cost as low as possible for this first product so we decided not to go with a higher voltage.

 

John S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
my setup is close to the one you describe John, though I'm not sure I'm in the same boat:

- Mac mini *and* Regen powered by a JS-2

- no power wires USB cable between Mac and Regen

- Regen feeding an Audiophilleo (claims galvanic isolation)

 

might the LPS-1 help?

 

thanks :)

 

How is the Audiophilleo powered? If it powered off the same JS-2 then the isolation would be bypassed, if it is powered by a separate power supply then isolation characteristics of the LPS-1 would not bring anything new, BUT the LPS-1 is a very low impedance, very fast, very low noise supply, so it might wind up being a better supply for the Audiophilleo than what is powering it now.

 

John S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pl_svn   

oh, sorry, forgot to mention: the Audiophilleo is running on his battery PS (the output stage. input stage is powered by Regen's vBus. galvanic isolation is in place between the two)

 

question actually was if the LPS-1 might help, in this scenario, re the ground loops issues I have experienced in the past

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
oh, sorry, forgot to mention: the Audiophilleo is running on his battery PS (the output stage. input stage is powered by Regen's vBus. galvanic isolation is in place between the two)

 

question actually was if the LPS-1 might help, in this scenario, re the ground loops issues I have experienced in the past

 

It sound like the Audiophieos output is already galvanically isolated from the JS-2 grounds. If you are really are using a USB cable with no shield connection, no ground connection and no power connection (just a single twisted pair, NOTHING else) then you have to have some other ground path already otherwise the REGEN would not work. USB simply will not work if there is NO ground connection AT ALL between the host and the device. Since it does work there has to be SOME ground connection somewhere.

 

It might be a good idea to track down what is really happening and go from there.

 

John S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Indeed, it will be interesting if Jason has an other cheap psu, especially the iFi at hand to try.

 

Between, in the iFi forum thread I learned that the iFi doesn't throw back junk back to the mains.

 

"But the iPower has a 6-Element Input Array which pretty much stops noise in its tracks from going back into the mains.

 

At shows we run with +20 iPOWERs off the same spur!"

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f30-abbingdon-music-research-ifi-audio-sponsored/12v-ipower-question-25883/index2.html#post543684

 

I have the iPower 9V, I just did a leakage test of it VS the 7.5V MeanWell that comes with a REGEN, the iPower had twice the leakage voltage (92V vs 46V).

 

This was tested with a USB isolator with the upstream connected to a computer whose power was plugged into the same power strip the iPower/MeanWell was connected to. The voltage between the grounds was 46V p-p for the MeanWell and 96V p-p for the iPower. The iPower also had a much more complicated waveform.

 

As a baseline when the downstream side is fed by a JS-2 the voltage is much less and looks almost like a pure sinewave.

 

BTW this test is measuring the leakage between the AC line and the DC out, not specifically the noise injected back into the AC line, but experience has shown that this test has a fairly good correlation to what gets injected into the line. A supply with a lot of complicated high frequency stuff in the leakage test is usually injecting that back into the line and one with a much simpler leakage is injecting less into the line.

 

John S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is there any minimum voltage requirement for the FPS (Feed Power Supply) to LPS-1 ? Can I use 7v @ 3A (keeping the 18w requirement) FPS ?

 

No, 7.5 is the minimum input voltage.

 

It was specifically designed so it could be used with the 7.5 Meanwell that comes with the REGEN, the circuit works with that, but much lower and it does not work.

 

John S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dev   
No, 7.5 is the minimum input voltage.

 

It was specifically designed so it could be used with the 7.5 Meanwell that comes with the REGEN, the circuit works with that, but much lower and it does not work.

 

John S.

 

 

Thanks John. I know that the uRendu works in 6-9v range but is 7v (the max output of LPS-1) the optimal voltage for powering it ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, 7.5 is the minimum input voltage.

 

It was specifically designed so it could be used with the 7.5 Meanwell that comes with the REGEN, the circuit works with that, but much lower and it does not work.

 

John S.

I am more than happy to steal the Meanwell from my Regen to feed the LPS-1 but I had hoped I could swap it for my iFi iPower 9V, however the spec for the Regen says max 8V - Bummer.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Superdad   
Thanks John. I know that the uRendu works in 6-9v range but is 7v (the max output of LPS-1) the optimal voltage for powering it ?

 

Yes, 7v is a good choice. Remember folks, most all the circuitry in the MicroRendu actually runs from 3.3V and 1.2V--stepped down in this custom design, mostly by linear regulators. John will tell if there are any 5V items other than the USB VBUS regulator, but the point is that higher voltages just get dumped by the regulators as extra heat. Now warm is nice (clocks and chips sound good that way), but the MicroRendu (and the REGEN) are already closed cases keeping the warmth inside--so there really is no need for higher voltages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Superdad   
I am more than happy to steal the Meanwell from my Regen to feed the LPS-1 but I had hoped I could swap it for my iFi iPower 9V, however the spec for the Regen says max 8V - Bummer.....

 

The REGEN is fine with 9V.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rickca   
I have the iPower 9V, I just did a leakage test of it VS the 7.5V MeanWell that comes with a REGEN, the iPower had twice the leakage voltage (92V vs 46V).

So now I feel like a real dummy for buying a 9V iPower with my micro rendu. I thought it would be better than the 7.5V MeanWell as an interim solution pending availability of the Ultracap LPS-1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Superdad   
So now I feel like a real dummy for buying a 9V iPower with my micro rendu. I thought it would be better than the 7.5V MeanWell as an interim solution pending availability of the Ultracap LPS-1.

 

Don't feel bad Rick. I have an iFi Power and think it does sound a little better than the REGEN's stock Mean Well supply.

 

John was just pointing out the claim of their SMPS not kicking much back into the wall does not match with what he has measured. But we do not like to cast aspersions on others products (and he qualified what it was he measured), so best to let it slide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dev   
I have the iPower 9V, I just did a leakage test of it VS the 7.5V MeanWell that comes with a REGEN, the iPower had twice the leakage voltage (92V vs 46V).

 

This was tested with a USB isolator with the upstream connected to a computer whose power was plugged into the same power strip the iPower/MeanWell was connected to. The voltage between the grounds was 46V p-p for the MeanWell and 96V p-p for the iPower. The iPower also had a much more complicated waveform.

 

As a baseline when the downstream side is fed by a JS-2 the voltage is much less and looks almost like a pure sinewave.

 

BTW this test is measuring the leakage between the AC line and the DC out, not specifically the noise injected back into the AC line, but experience has shown that this test has a fairly good correlation to what gets injected into the line. A supply with a lot of complicated high frequency stuff in the leakage test is usually injecting that back into the line and one with a much simpler leakage is injecting less into the line.

 

John S.

 

John, I appreciate you taking the time doing the test. I have a follow up question regarding what is injected back into the mains...

 

If all these smps, irrespective of Meanwell or iFi, are connected to a good power conditioner, does it really matter ? For example, I have an Audience aR6-TSSD model (as well as a SR Powercell 10 UEF) where individual outlets are filtered and isolated from each other as well as the mains and all my audio gears in turn are connected to it. If I insert any smps into one of its spare outlet, for example a wallwart for my Netgear switch, I don’t hear a single bit of difference in audio quality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×