Cybershaft rubidium clock...low priced option?

[zephyr24069]

On 10/20/2016 at 2:09 AM, Elberoth said:

 

But those measurements are for diffrent ranges ! One was in the 1Hz-100Hz range and the other one - 10Hz-10Khz range.

 

You cannot compare XO jitter figures in different ranges.

 

Jitter is not unlike car acceleration. The measured car acceleration (measured in seconds) only gets any meaning after you apply a speed delta to it.

 

What you just did here, was comparing car A acceleration in 0-60 range, with car B acceleration in 60-120 range. Makes absolutely no sense at all !

Absolutely agree,....I've taken the numbers presented on that other clock and cannot get to the claimed jitter values either.  With these calcs you cannot mix data from different ranges.  I am also getting >400 fs jitter values from the data presented...

[zephyr24069]

On 4/18/2016 at 10:23 AM, planner said:

It's about $2,500. Output impedance is 50 ohm. But I have been using a Oyaide 75 ohm digital cable without issues. I didn't deactivate the 75 ohm termination on the Mutec as well. Quite difficult to find a high quality 50 ohm cable these days, so I just leave it as it is.

If you are still looking for a SOTA 50-ohm cable, I have 2 1.5 meter Esoteric-Mexcel 8N-A2000 cables that I am not currently using that are downright excellent....PM me and we can talk or look at my ads on Audiogon....

[kaufenpreis]

The above data is for their oscillators only.

[flkin]

Just received my Cybershaft UPOCXO-01 OP14 clock a few days ago  

 

What a device! Its effect can be heard immediate but over time it gets better. I have some info to share from my exchanges with Kenji Hagesawa, the owner of Cybershaft. He says to expect the following:

 

Minimum warm up - 30 minutes

30 min - perceived improvement (from the max available from the clock effect) is 50%

24 hours - 60%

72 hours - 75%

30 days - 100%

 

 

And this resets once the clock is powered off. So he recommends to leave it on all the time.

 

He further says that the brain needs a few days to get used to the new sound stage. This is of course the Brain Burn-in we are all so familiar with. 

 

Interestingly enough he has some comments about BNC cables to be used. He has a SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) test to check if the cable is good and provides this test for the shielded cables he sells (very reasonably priced). He says:

 

" Ideally it is 1.0000 but it is evaluated against the physical impedance integrity of the cable. If there are cable performance defects, bad connectors, or machining failure SWR will be a large value. It can be said that there is no problem if SWR value is normally 1.5 or less "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave_ratio

 

The 0.5m, 50ohm BNC cable he supplied me measured 1.0006

 

[mozes]

8 hours ago, flkin said:

30 days - 100%

This is such a long time to get the full effect! Any reason why it takes so long?

So if you switch it off or had a power outage after it has been on for at least a month, then you need to wait one more month to get your system sounding the same ??

[austinpop]

9 hours ago, flkin said:

Just received my Cybershaft UPOCXO-01 OP14 clock a few days ago  

 

What a device! Its effect can be heard immediate but over time it gets better. I have some info to share from my exchanges with Kenji Hagesawa, the owner of Cybershaft. He says to expect the following:

 

Minimum warm up - 30 minutes

30 min - perceived improvement (from the max available from the clock effect) is 50%

24 hours - 60%

72 hours - 75%

30 days - 100%

 

 

And this resets once the clock is powered off. So he recommends to leave it on all the time.

 

He further says that the brain needs a few days to get used to the new sound stage. This is of course the Brain Burn-in we are all so familiar with. 

 

Interestingly enough he has some comments about BNC cables to be used. He has a SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) test to check if the cable is good and provides this test for the shielded cables he sells (very reasonably priced). He says:

 

" Ideally it is 1.0000 but it is evaluated against the physical impedance integrity of the cable. If there are cable performance defects, bad connectors, or machining failure SWR will be a large value. It can be said that there is no problem if SWR value is normally 1.5 or less "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave_ratio

 

The 0.5m, 50ohm BNC cable he supplied me measured 1.0006

 

 

Yes, it is an amazing device. Glad you are hearing the SQ benefit with your trifecta as I did.

 

58 minutes ago, mozes said:

This is such a long time to get the full effect! Any reason why it takes so long?

So if you switch it off or had a power outage after it has been on for at least a month, then you need to wait one more month to get your system sounding the same ??

 

This has not been my experience. I think the 30 days may have been true upon initial burn in, but now if I have occasion to turn it off - say for a few minutes - I notice no issues.

 

Obviously if you let it stay off for a while to where it cools off, you need the OCXO to reach thermal equilibrium, but a few hours is more than sufficient to not notice an SQ drop.

 

Maybe my ears are not that sensitive!

[mozes]

2 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

 

This has not been my experience. I think the30 days may have been true upon initial burn in, but now if I have occasion to turn it off - say for a few minutes - I notice no issues.

 

Obviously if you let it stay off for a while to where it cools off, you need the OCXO to reach thermal equilibrium, but a few hours is more than sufficient to not notice an SQ drop.

 

Maybe my ears are not that sensitive!

That’s good to know, an OP-14 is on my radar now  

[zephyr24069]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, it is an amazing device. Glad you are hearing the SQ benefit with your trifecta as I did.

 

 

This has not been my experience. I think the 30 days may have been true upon initial burn in, but now if I have occasion to turn it off - say for a few minutes - I notice no issues.

 

Obviously if you let it stay off for a while to where it cools off, you need the OCXO to reach thermal equilibrium, but a few hours is more than sufficient to not notice an SQ drop.

 

Maybe my ears are not that sensitive!

I agree as well,...2-4 weeks of constant burn-in was necessary to have everything sounding its best however it does NOT take the same period of time for the clock to stabilize and impact the system to optimum sound after the 3 Cybershafts I've owned to warm back up. I always turn on my OCXO clock (and did the same with an Esoteric G-0s and G-03x at various points years ago) 30 minutes to an hour or more before turning the DAC and transport on but it only take a few hours to a day for the entire system to 'come back' after any kind of downtime of more than a few hours.

[flkin]

I only received my OP14 less than 72 hours ago and was wondering about warming up time as asked the question to Kenji-san. The 30 day warm time sounded pretty extreme but was stated the included manual.

 

Glad to know it will only take a few hours to a day to return back to full strength.

[zephyr24069]

12 hours ago, flkin said:

I only received my OP14 less than 72 hours ago and was wondering about warming up time as asked the question to Kenji-san. The 30 day warm time sounded pretty extreme but was stated the included manual.

 

Glad to know it will only take a few hours to a day to return back to full strength.

That 30 days is definitely about initial break-in.  I'll have a look at the manual and we should request Cybershaft to make a few clarifications.  Having had 4 (actually, earlier post was wrong, forgot to count my Dual Rb-OCXO original) of these in my system, I can tell you that once it's all broken in that it does not take 30 days to come back after power off. I will say offer that my system including clock stays on 24x7 throughout the year except for 1-2 day or 1-2 week total down time periods when I am out of town; I absolutely agree with Cybershaft's recommendation to leave entire system and clock (turn off your tube hardware if you must or put it into standby) for best results...

[zephyr24069]

On 2/7/2018 at 9:07 PM, flkin said:

I only received my OP14 less than 72 hours ago and was wondering about warming up time as asked the question to Kenji-san. The 30 day warm time sounded pretty extreme but was stated the included manual.

 

Glad to know it will only take a few hours to a day to return back to full strength.

30 days is total break-in time for best results from a new unit though at 1 and 2 week points you'll hear your system react very positively to the maturing OCXO and circuitry.  Don't turn it off after that either; i would leave any master clock on for as long as possible. After prolonged periods of downtime (going out of town, vacation, etc...) it does take a few hours to a day or so to warm back up but you can still play music within 15-30 minutes (my advice as I did the same).  Like any other electronics and particularly since it's a master clock, you need a few days to get to its optimum operational state after prolonged downtime...

[ducatirider]

I have tried to contact Cybershaft through their webform several times with no replies starting around 4 weeks ago.  Could someone be kind enough to pm me a contact email address?

[flkin]

On 17/02/2018 at 8:19 AM, zephyr24069 said:

30 days is total break-in time for best results from a new unit though at 1 and 2 week points you'll hear your system react very positively to the maturing OCXO and circuitry.  Don't turn it off after that either; i would leave any master clock on for as long as possible. After prolonged periods of downtime (going out of town, vacation, etc...) it does take a few hours to a day or so to warm back up but you can still play music within 15-30 minutes (my advice as I did the same).  Like any other electronics and particularly since it's a master clock, you need a few days to get to its optimum operational state after prolonged downtime...

 

"..system react very positively.." is the understatement of the year.

 

The changes after 2 weeks burn is like a whole new system. Very impressed with the OP14 and looking forward to the next 2 weeks final burn 

[austinpop]

56 minutes ago, flkin said:

 

"..system react very positively.." is the understatement of the year.

 

The changes after 2 weeks burn is like a whole new system. Very impressed with the OP14 and looking forward to the next 2 weeks final burn 

 

Glad to hear it!

[JimmyS]

Just visited the English website and saw this:

 

------ Notice 25/03/2018 -------
All OCXO products were discontinued. We can not accept product reservations.
The inventory of the unit has been sold out. There is no reproduction of those products.
We apologize for it.

 

[rickca]

2 hours ago, JimmyS said:

Just visited the English website and saw this:

 

------ Notice 25/03/2018 -------
All OCXO products were discontinued. We can not accept product reservations.
The inventory of the unit has been sold out. There is no reproduction of those products.
We apologize for it.

 

You're in luck if you want an OP-14.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?do=findComment&comment=809854

 

[ElviaCaprice]

6 minutes ago, rickca said:

You're in luck if you want an OP-14.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?do=findComment&comment=809854

 

@austinpop gave me first dibs, which I will be happy to honor.

[zephyr24069]

On 2/21/2018 at 10:03 AM, ducatirider said:

I have tried to contact Cybershaft through their webform several times with no replies starting around 4 weeks ago.  Could someone be kind enough to pm me a contact email address?

 I've been off forums for quite a while due to work and life.  You can write to Kenji directly at [email protected]

[zephyr24069]

On 4/22/2018 at 12:55 AM, JimmyS said:

Just visited the English website and saw this:

 

------ Notice 25/03/2018 -------
All OCXO products were discontinued. We can not accept product reservations.
The inventory of the unit has been sold out. There is no reproduction of those products.
We apologize for it.

 

From what I understand, there are 2 things happening here;

 

- intense work on new product offerings based upon research activities he's been involved in and some investigations and prototypes built last year

- the level of quality and suitability of OCXO modules for audio purposes, not just getting a batch of OCXOs that have some level of measurements pass, takes a LOT of time and from I've learned over the last couple of years, Kenji goes through MANY OCXO units and tests each one for suitability, not just to specs but also to how they'll work in an audio playback scenario, throwing many out along the way before finding a good lot of OCXO modules to which he would attach his company's name and reputation. This in my experience is a bit different from others in the same market....

 

They'll be back with exciting news from what I'm told...a little patience is required for us right now.

[austinpop]

On 4/22/2018 at 2:32 AM, ElviaCaprice said:

@austinpop gave me first dibs, which I will be happy to honor.

 

This didn’t happen. I will be listing my OP-14 soon. PM me if you have an interest.

[zephyr24069]

CYBERSHAFT now has high-quality OCXO modules of different levels again AND 3 new products;

 

 

Newly announced Cybershaft Platimum (single output 50-ohn or 75-ohm);
 
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html
 
or Cybershaft Limited2 (3 output 50-ohm or 75-ohm, selectable for each!);
 
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/limited2.html

 
Can be ordered in levels OP14 up to OP20 (the higher levels are likely to be rare so best order soon!).
 
Kenji's been VERY busy and the phase noise and jitter specs on the higher end units are off the charts!

Brand new today (19-November-2018) 

 

New announced (today) audiophile-grade Clock Distributor (up to 3 outputs);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/clockdist01.html

 

*Note the addition of 50-ohm or 75-ohm as output on each individual BNC output on all of the above!
 

[Arpiben]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 9:58 AM, flkin said:

Just received my Cybershaft UPOCXO-01 OP14 clock a few days ago  

 

What a device! Its effect can be heard immediate but over time it gets better. I have some info to share from my exchanges with Kenji Hagesawa, the owner of Cybershaft. He says to expect the following:

 

Minimum warm up - 30 minutes

30 min - perceived improvement (from the max available from the clock effect) is 50%

24 hours - 60%

72 hours - 75%

30 days - 100%

 

 

And this resets once the clock is powered off. So he recommends to leave it on all the time.

 

He further says that the brain needs a few days to get used to the new sound stage. This is of course the Brain Burn-in we are all so familiar with. 

 

Interestingly enough he has some comments about BNC cables to be used. He has a SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) test to check if the cable is good and provides this test for the shielded cables he sells (very reasonably priced). He says:

 

" Ideally it is 1.0000 but it is evaluated against the physical impedance integrity of the cable. If there are cable performance defects, bad connectors, or machining failure SWR will be a large value. It can be said that there is no problem if SWR value is normally 1.5 or less "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave_ratio

 

The 0.5m, 50ohm BNC cable he supplied me measured 1.0006

 

For sake of accuracy a good BNC connector has a Return Loss between 35dB - 50dB at 10MHz. In other words an SWR between 1.006 and 1.06.

There is a typing mistake or unrealistic value somewhere.

 

[flkin]

11 hours ago, Arpiben said:

For sake of accuracy a good BNC connector has a Return Loss between 35dB - 50dB at 10MHz. In other words an SWR between 1.006 and 1.06.

There is a typing mistake or unrealistic value somewhere.

 

 

Yes you're probably right, there's a missing zero there. I quoted Kenji-san directly but probably it's just a typo and should be 1.05 rather than 1.5.

 

Thanks for pointing this out.

[ThenewGearPPK]

On 11/19/2018 at 7:24 AM, zephyr24069 said:

CYBERSHAFT now has high-quality OCXO modules of different levels again AND 3 new products;

 

 

Newly announced Cybershaft Platimum (single output 50-ohn or 75-ohm);
 
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html
 
or Cybershaft Limited2 (3 output 50-ohm or 75-ohm, selectable for each!);
 
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/limited2.html

 
Can be ordered in levels OP14 up to OP20 (the higher levels are likely to be rare so best order soon!).
 
Kenji's been VERY busy and the phase noise and jitter specs on the higher end units are off the charts!

Brand new today (19-November-2018) 

 

New announced (today) audiophile-grade Clock Distributor (up to 3 outputs);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/clockdist01.html

 

*Note the addition of 50-ohm or 75-ohm as output on each individual BNC output on all of the above!
 

Kinda confused with all these models.

 

Are all of them the same quality, just with a different number of BNC output connections and/or internal power supplies?

 

Or is there a hierarchy to the actual clocks inside the units?

[zephyr24069]

Good Question....each can be ordered with different precision and phase-noise specs OCXO module levels.  Going from OP14 on up it's literally a choice between Great and Fantastic based upon my testing prior models at OP14, OP17, OP20 and OP21.

 

The difference on the 2 first in the list is literally the number of BNC outputs; do you need 1 or do you have a multi-box setup of some form is the relevant question.

 

The 3rd item is a clock distributor for 10 Mhz; if you have an existing Cybershaft clock (or any other) that puts out 10 Mhz but only has 1 output, the distributor takes that one output, preserves the signal integrity in all its parts and splits it out to 3 separate signals.  Useful if today (like me) you are using short clock cable runs with tees and terminators to accommodate 2 or 3 devices.

 

BTW (to all): The web form is not always to best to get in touch.  You may wish to try emailing at [email protected]; has always worked well for me and 2 other guys I know that regularly chat with Kenji via email.

 

Hope this helps...