Linux for the Audiophile - Snakeoil OS

[Sal1950]

Clementine is a great looking and functioning player and I used it exclusively for a while several years back.

 

No iPad or iPhone app precludes it now though.

A $40 android tablet from WalMart cures that. Then you don't have to worry how JRivers code might compromise the security of your system.

[tp1]

Some versions of Linux are dead simple to install, like Ubuntu.

 

It is indeed simple for the GUI version but an optimised for audio solution is not so simple. To create and run a stripped-down bare-bones , real-time headless kernel for best audio reproduction is the real hard part for those not fluent in Linux. With windows we have AO to make it easy, but for Linux there is no such luxury hence the dependance on audio specific distro's .

[a.dent]

A $40 android tablet from WalMart cures that. Then you don't have to worry how JRivers code might compromise the security of your system.

 

Yes that's a good idea.

 

Of course here in Australia it's $60 now with the drop in our $ lately.

[a.dent]

Some versions of Linux are dead simple to install, like Ubuntu.

 

You are correct. No problems getting Ubuntu running but installing JRiver and optimising Ubuntu for ideal SQ is where my problem lies.

[jabbr]

It is indeed simple for the GUI version but an optimised for audio solution is not so simple. To create and run a stripped-down bare-bones , real-time headless kernel for best audio reproduction is the real hard part for those not fluent in Linux. With windows we have AO to make it easy, but for Linux there is no such luxury hence the dependance on audio specific distro's .

 

Just install server version, install linux-lowlatency , remove the keyboard and monitor and use ssh to log into your computer from a terminal window in a laptop -- this is how I run NAA -- Google is your manual

[tp1]

Just install server version, install linux-lowlatency , remove the keyboard and monitor and use ssh to log into your computer from a terminal window in a laptop -- this is how I run NAA -- Google is your manual

 

That is in no way an easy option for the average windows or mac user.

[jabbr]

Which is why you have the choice of Windows and Mac,

 

...or sell a script "Ubuntu audiophile optimizer" which would be clearly labeled as such

[tp1]

Which is why you have the choice of Windows and Mac

 

 

Room treatments for headphone users

 

I am in this thread because I do not want to use Windows or Mac. Hence the attraction of an optimised easy to use Linux distro.

[master]

I am in this thread because I do not want to use Windows or Mac. Hence the attraction of an optimised easy to use Linux distro.

 

There already exist optimized Linux distros for the audiophiles.

 

MPD would be the primary option. Many based on it for the Pi like moOde, Rune, Volumio, etc.

 

Daphile is another contender.

 

Starting with something in beta and/or being part of the beta testing team is not the "optimized easy" way to anything.

[tp1]

There already exist optimized Linux distros for the audiophiles.

 

MPD would be the primary option. Many based on it for the Pi like moOde, Rune, Volumio, etc.

 

Daphile is another contender.

 

Starting with something in beta and/or being part of the beta testing team is not the "optimized easy" way to anything.

 

 

I am also chasing sound quality to my tastes and its great to have options. I have been using Daphile and and Vortexbox for some time - including when they had teething issues. The latest version of S/O seemed easy enough to install and use.

[Paul R]

You are correct. No problems getting Ubuntu running but installing JRiver and optimising Ubuntu for ideal SQ is where my problem lies.

 

With the GUI in Ubuntu, it is about the same level of difficulty as installing something under Windows. As for optimizing Linux, that is very dependent upon the platform. A little Atom based machine should probably not be running a GUI if you really want the best sound. Or just running th display server remotely under Windows, MacOS, or on a tablet.

 

You can change the sound by monkeying around with scheduling, priorities, and so forth. That is why Bryston's Linux based player sounds different from say, an Araliti or other similar units. However, with even a modern Celeron processor, that becomes less and less true, and the differences in sound become more due to hardware differences.

 

I applaud efforts to build Linux distros with great sound. The current best one I know of is Vortexbox, which installs on a computer nearly by itself, and has a web based interface you can do just about every audio task from. Multiple players, ripping, and it even serves as a NAS if you want.

 

While I abhor the naming of this, and the name makes me deeply suspicious someone is pulling our legs...

[17629]

So what you're saying, is the reason this particular distro is more difficult to setup than average, is because there's no dte? Everything is done from the command line?

[snakeoil.os]

While I abhor the naming of this, and the name makes me deeply suspicious someone is pulling our legs...

 

We live in a world where communications has never been easier, and yet people lack basic social skills. Just take me as an example, calling the distro Snakeoil. Haha. I like the name, only because other people avoid it. If this distro slowly climbs up the google ranks when people look up "hifi snakeoil" or "audiophile snakeoil", ever better.

 

Treating me with suspicion is perfectly reasonable - I just signed up to this forum after all. And eagled eye people will notice I call myself the "Snakeoil Salesman" in my blog. Happy to start at the bottom and earn trust the traditional way.

 

As for the claim that Linux is easy to get into - as stated in my website's privacy policy, it is using google analytics. Of the people who didn't block it, Linux OS hits only make up 4.55%. They also spent the least amount time as a group.

 

This makes perfect sense to me, people who already know Linux don't see the need for Snakeoil. Pointing out Linux is as easy as ever to install is moot. Pointing out the small sample size of a new web site is hardly indicative.

 

The reality is, there will always be people who find installing Linux a frustrating experience. My opinion on this is not just supported by stats, but by the people whom I have met face to face. e.g. tp1 who is the guy who encouraged me to sign up here (imagine my surprise when he didn't even have an account here. ROFL).

 

So what you're saying, is the reason this particular distro is more difficult to setup than average, is because there's no dte? Everything is done from the command line?

Two options in Snakeoil - you can do most things from the web interface, or everything from the command line..

 

The 2nd option requires a user account (with sudo rights), and that screen asking for information to create the user account is throwing everybody off so far who are trying out Snakeoil right now. Ironically Snakeoil would be a lot easier to install if I just hide that and have Ubiquity install everything automatically. May consider that in the future (and have the option to create a user account from the web pages, and hopefully even reset the password).

 

Any people who are lurking and have NFI what we just talked about in the past 30+ posts or so - Snakeoil may well be the distro you should try first. Admittedly the distro is still very raw and the website is still disorganised - but with more feedback the experience will just get better and better.

 

With Snakeoil I'm taking my technical hat off and looking at Linux from an audiophile's perspective. The Snakeoil web interface will slowly be polished with that idea in mind.

 

As for feedback on Snakeoil itself, the good news is a local guru in my area has found several critical bugs and gave me notes on how to improve the UI. That list will give me something to work on for now.

 

And meanwhile, I'd still be here to earn the trust.

[Paul R]

As for the claim that Linux is easy to get into - as stated in my website's privacy policy, it is using google analytics. Of the people who didn't block it, Linux OS hits only make up 4.55%. They also spent the least amount time as a group.

 

Or Unix/Linux people use different methods to communicate. Seriously.

[17629]

"We live in a world where communications has never been easier, and yet people lack basic social skills. Just take me as an example, calling the distro Snakeoil. Haha. I like the name, only because other people avoid it. If this distro slowly climbs up the google ranks when people look up "hifi snakeoil" or "audiophile snakeoil", ever better.

 

Treating me with suspicion is perfectly reasonable - I just signed up to this forum after all. And eagled eye people will notice I call myself the "Snakeoil Salesman" in my blog. Happy to start at the bottom and earn trust the traditional way."

 

Its a unique perspective, I'll give you that. But I don't know if its really a good idea to call yourself a snake oil salesman. (Unless, of course, you actually do have real, high quality snake oil.) Its kind of like going on a job interview in a bank and telling them your nick name is "Stick Up Man". You may not get hired.

 

Anyway, during the setup process, do you have the option to pick a DE, or must you use CLI or web interface? That's will probably be an issue for most people, even if they do have Linux experience. Also, I checked distrowatch and you don't have a listing. If you want to get some exposure, that's one of the best ways to do it.

[snakeoil.os]

Its a unique perspective, I'll give you that. But I don't know if its really a good idea to call yourself a snake oil salesman. (Unless, of course, you actually do have real, high quality snake oil.) Its kind of like going on a job interview in a bank and telling them your nick name is "Stick Up Man". You may not get hired.

And if the bank decided not to hire me based on superficial stuffs, it'd not be a work environment I want to work with anyway.

 

Anyway, during the setup process, do you have the option to pick a DE, or must you use CLI or web interface? That's will probably be an issue for most people, even if they do have Linux experience.

This is a LiveCD, so the apps you see is the apps you get.. It's designed to run headless (even the install works over VNC). The only installed windows manager is IceWM. Of course users have full control and ssh in and do everything they want once the OS is installed.

 

Also, I checked distrowatch and you don't have a listing. If you want to get some exposure, that's one of the best ways to do it.

Good idea.. Worth doing once this LiveCD gets out of beta.

[a.dent]

"Its a unique perspective, I'll give you that. But I don't know if its really a good idea to call yourself a snake oil salesman. (Unless, of course, you actually do have real, high quality snake oil.) Its kind of like going on a job interview in a bank and telling them your nick name is "Stick Up Man". You may not get hired.

 

Maybe it's the Aussie sense of humour at play here. I got it straight away but if you haven't grown up with it you may miss the self deprecating subtlety of it.

 

There's even an official Australian government website to explain our humour. Australian humour | australia.gov.au

[tp1]

With the GUI in Ubuntu, it is about the same level of difficulty as installing something under Windows. As for optimizing Linux, that is very dependent upon the platform. A little Atom based machine should probably not be running a GUI if you really want the best sound. Or just running th display server remotely under Windows, MacOS, or on a tablet.

 

You can change the sound by monkeying around with scheduling, priorities, and so forth. That is why Bryston's Linux based player sounds different from say, an Araliti or other similar units. However, with even a modern Celeron processor, that becomes less and less true, and the differences in sound become more due to hardware differences.

 

I applaud efforts to build Linux distros with great sound. The current best one I know of is Vortexbox, which installs on a computer nearly by itself, and has a web based interface you can do just about every audio task from. Multiple players, ripping, and it even serves as a NAS if you want.

 

While I abhor the naming of this, and the name makes me deeply suspicious someone is pulling our legs...

 

 

The point of using Atom based machines is to minimise RFI/EMI for better SQ. To make it work for audio they require light weight OS and to achieve that you don't start with the biggest operating systems on the planet. hence the Linux distro's. Sound quality preferences are largely personal perspectives and I too preferred Vortexbox up until recently but S/O is my current favorite. In its latest format, I think it is incredibly easy to install.

 

As for the name of the O/S? That says more about the developers sense of humor in his region of the world than anything else.

[Paul R]

The point of using Atom based machines is to minimise RFI/EMI for better SQ. To make it work for audio they require light weight OS and to achieve that you don't start with the biggest operating systems on the planet. hence the Linux distro's. Sound quality preferences are largely personal perspectives and I too preferred Vortexbox up until recently but S/O is my current favorite. In its latest format, I think it is incredibly easy to install.

 

As for the name of the O/S? That says more about the developers sense of humor in his region of the world than anything else.

 

Well, that's debatable actually. A high powered beefy music server sounds really good when you use SSDs, and even better if you isolate the machine via ethernet and use network or SAN storage.

 

Small low power players however, almost always sound great, but today's models are almost always pulling their source across a network. (Streaming, if not from the internet...) It is difficult to say how much of the improvement is from Ethernet and how much from the low power usage.

 

Linux in and of itself, even a stropped down version like this, is not a small or tiny OS by any means. But like I said, I really applaud these efforts, and think they will eventually lead to better sound. Besides, I like almost anything Unix-like.

 

I do not applaud the naming and if humor is the underlying cause, I still have to wonder what the joke really is. Let me see how many audiophile legs I can pull off?

 

-Paul

[snakeoil.os]

I do not applaud the naming and if humor is the underlying cause, I still have to wonder what the joke really is.

some day, when you google "audiophile snakeoil", the distro website will be ranked #1...

 

Not done via SEO, or with cheating. As mentioned in the FAQ, all I'm trying to do is to turn a negative word into a positive one.

 

People usually associate "audiophile snakeoil" as something negative - Silly expensive things that don't work. e.g. there are already a few comments who are taken aback by the name.

 

Now people can google for words like "audiophile snakeoil os" and "audiophile snakeoil operating system" to find the website to download this software.

 

In time I hope they can simply use the words "audiophile snakeoil" and get the same results.

 

40+ posts so far, and yet not one person tried out Snakeoil, and gave me feedback on usability issues... Is this enough evidence to show people wouldn't touch anything with the word snakeoil in it? And if they are repulsed by the word, is that repulsiveness a irrational response?

[Paul R]

40+ posts so far, and yet not one person tried out Snakeoil, and gave me feedback on usability issues... Is this enough evidence to show people wouldn't touch anything with the word snakeoil in it? And if they are repulsed by the word, is that repulsiveness a irrational response?

 

Yes it is the name, and no it is not an irrational response. Who wants to spend the time loading even a VM if the thing turns out to be something of a hoax, a joke, or something more malicious?

 

I am not accusing you of that, but then, I won't load software distros from people I don't know with odd names either. The name of your distro alone is plenty enough reason to give one pause.

 

On the other hand, the second post in the thread is from someone who apparently loaded and tried your distro, God Bless Em...

[mansr]

I do not applaud the naming and if humor is the underlying cause, I still have to wonder what the joke really is.

 

I thought it was kind of funny.

[tp1]

Well, that's debatable actually. A high powered beefy music server sounds really good when you use SSDs, and even better if you isolate the machine via ethernet and use network or SAN storage.

 

Small low power players however, almost always sound great, but today's models are almost always pulling their source across a network. (Streaming, if not from the internet...) It is difficult to say how much of the improvement is from Ethernet and how much from the low power usage.

 

Linux in and of itself, even a stropped down version like this, is not a small or tiny OS by any means. But like I said, I really applaud these efforts, and think they will eventually lead to better sound. Besides, I like almost anything Unix-like.

 

I do not applaud the naming and if humor is the underlying cause, I still have to wonder what the joke really is. Let me see how many audiophile legs I can pull off?

 

-Paul

 

You are right it is debatable as is anything for the sake of debate. For my part i have personally purchased and tried several different motherboards with a range of CPU's and capabilities and have arrived at my optimal configuration from there.

 

As for your comments on the name, there is nothing left to be said to someone who does not judge software on its merits but makes disparaging remarks without having tried it.

[a.dent]

Yes it is the name, and no it is not an irrational response. Who wants to spend the time loading even a VM if the thing turns out to be something of a hoax, a joke, or something more malicious?

 

I am not accusing you of that, but then, I won't load software distros from people I don't know with odd names either. The name of your distro alone is plenty enough reason to give one pause.

 

On the other hand, the second post in the thread is from someone who apparently loaded and tried your distro, God Bless Em...

 

I'm listening to Snakeoil ATM.

 

Having mostly used Daphile and Vortexbox on my Atom based Linux server I have found that Snakeoil sounds better than both.

 

There are a few teething problems but I'll stick with it unless something better comes along.

 

Paul, give it a try. You honestly have nothing to lose and I'm sure you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Paul R]

You are right it is debatable as is anything for the sake of debate. For my part i have personally purchased and tried several different motherboards with a range of CPU's and capabilities and have arrived at my optimal configuration from there.

 

As for your comments on the name, there is nothing left to be said to someone who does not judge software on its merits but makes disparaging remarks without having tried it.

 

I have not disparaged the software, merely suggested that no sane person would load something named snakeoil on an audio computer they they consider important. If you choose to do so, fine.

 

As for audio under Unix/Linux, well, let's just say I would trust my own experience before that of someone applauding snake oil.