T+a dac 8 dsd

[chad-ra]

Hmm, if it's at a table in The Marketplace at AXPONA vs. a Room, would this be a demo with headphones vs. speakers?

 

That is correct, however we are no longer 100% confident it will make it. The pallet has not left Europe last time I checked. I will keep you guys updated.

 

The Newport show will have it for sure in a room. (Sunny Components will have it)

 

Chad,

 

Did you get to listen to the DAC 8 DSD converting a DSD 512 bitstream at CES ?

 

Are you or any of your colleagues going to be at Munich High End this year ?

 

We are doing an event at BMW World on Friday May 6th

 

DSD 512 May Fest in Munich

The set up will be the

 

PCM and DSD files > Sound Galleries Music Server SGM 2015 running HQ Player > DSD 512 > T+A DAC 8 DSD > to be announced electronics > Vivid Giya G1

 

The space at BMW World is 12 m x 13 m x 4.75 m

 

Send me an email at [email protected] if you would like a ticket or two

 

Lawrence Dickie, Jarred Sacks and other audio luminaries will be there

 

There is a walk in public listening time from 2 pm to 6 pm, after that it's ticketed guests only

 

Sorry for the late reply here. I will send you an email. Robb the CEO and Norm the President of US sales will both be at Munich.

[bmoura]

That is correct, however we are no longer 100% confident it will make it. The pallet has not left Europe last time I checked. I will keep you guys updated.

 

The Newport show will have it for sure in a room. (Sunny Components will have it)

 

 

 

Sorry for the late reply here. I will send you an email. Robb the CEO and Norm the President of US sales will both be at Munich.

 

Hmm, time for an assist from Federal Express?

 

A room at The Show Newport should be an attention getter. In it's new location (Hotel Irvine), The Show Newport was sensational last year.

 

On the Munich demo, I hear that Jared Sacks will be bringing some of his favorite DSD music from the Native DSD Music store for DSD 512 upsampling. That sounds like fun. Not planning to be at Munich, but looking forward to reports from that event.

[Sunya]

From the HFN review in the May issue:

 

"despite (or perhaps due to) its ‘two DACs in one’ design, the DAC 8 DSD is pretty agnostic when it comes to the music format being played. Using the excellent range of free downloads available from 2L’s Test Bench [see http://www.2L.no/hires], I was able to compare the same recording – in this case ‘Et Misericordia’ from Arnesen’s Magnificat, performed by Noway’s Nidaros Cathedral Girls’ Choir and Trondheim Soloists [2L- 106-SADB], in everything from CD quality up to 352.8kHz/24-bit FLAC and DSD256.

 

While stepping up the file sizes undoubtedly opens up the recording progressively, revealing ever more detail, the T+A shows no real preference for one or other of the highest-resolution files. Yes, the DSD may sound just a smidge more fluid and organic, but I’m not sure I could consistently tell the two apart if I listened to them blind – which is good news, as it means the DAC performs to the same high standards whichever format you throw at it."

[chrille]

Hmm, time for an assist from Federal Express?

 

A room at The Show Newport should be an attention getter. In it's new location (Hotel Irvine), The Show Newport was sensational last year.

 

On the Munich demo, I hear that Jared Sacks will be bringing some of his favorite DSD music from the Native DSD Music store for DSD 512 upsampling. That sounds like fun. Not planning to be at Munich, but looking forward to reports from that event.

 

All this hype around upsampled rbcd and pop rock music sound is subjective and lacks any real reference point. And I doubt it really tells anything much about the actual sound quality of this DAC.

I will be lot more interested in hearing from Jared how hopefully natively recorded DSD 256 or DXD masters of large scale classical acoustic music sounds via this new DAC.

I haven't heard the T+A, yet but I have heard the Chord DAVE via HE1000 and HD800 headphones only so far. But one thing was pretty clear to me with masterfiles where I have a reference, that DAVE delivered what could very well be the best digital SQ from any consumer product.

I have heard and owned quite a few dacs but as far as DAVE is concerned it is no hype to say that it is in the SOTA category and possibly the world leader currently.

However much I would wish this hype around the T+A to be more than just hype,I strongly doubt that a DAC that sells for 2700€ will be as good as DAVE.

I am baffled at the use of music and recordings that aren't really very suitable to judge SQ in the elevated highend category keeps popping up over and over again.

Nothing wrong with Hotel California, but certainly not serious test material in real hi fi terms imho.

[guiltyboxswapper]

All this hype around upsampled rbcd and pop rock music sound is subjective and lacks any real reference point. And I doubt it really tells anything much about the actual sound quality of this DAC.

I will be lot more interested in hearing from Jared how hopefully natively recorded DSD 256 or DXD masters of large scale classical acoustic music sounds via this new DAC.

I haven't heard the T+A, yet but I have heard the Chord DAVE via HE1000 and HD800 headphones only so far. But one thing was pretty clear to me with masterfiles where I have a reference, that DAVE delivered what could very well be the best digital SQ from any consumer product.

I have heard and owned quite a few dacs but as far as DAVE is concerned it is no hype to say that it is in the SOTA category and possibly the world leader currently.

However much I would wish this hype around the T+A to be more than just hype,I strongly doubt that a DAC that sells for 2700€ will be as good as DAVE.

I am baffled at the use of music and recordings that aren't really very suitable to judge SQ in the elevated highend category keeps popping up over and over again.

Nothing wrong with Hotel California, but certainly not serious test material in real hi fi terms imho.

 

As I've mentioned to others, very few people are going to believe this kind of performance from the T+A's price point without hearing it themselves. That's the terrible thing about hifi, so many people equate $$$$ = better performance. There's no doubt that HQ Player has a big part to play in the DAC's performance, which running at DSD 512 is no small compute load.

 

On paper, with exception to mentioning the 1-bit discrete DSD converter, there's no real clue of its performance. I will at some point write a response of how it contrasts with the Vega, but for now I can say its a big jump from even that. I really liked my Vega DAC too, and as many know its not a slouch.

 

RE: Music choice, surely one's subjective reference is just that... one's subjective reference?

 

Anyway, I would try listen to one if your interested. Isn't that the point of these discussions? Who cares if its worlds SOTA or not, subjective and system fit is possibly more important to oneself.

[Sunya]

Also from the HFN review:

 

"OK, so there’s not quite the absolute bass extension and conviction of the Chord DAVE [HFN Apr ’16], nor quite the ability of that DAC to reveal the finest nuances of the recorded ambience, but then the T+A is a fraction of the price of its British rival (£7950), and very impressive for the money."

[guiltyboxswapper]

Also from the HFN review:

 

"OK, so there’s not quite the absolute bass extension and conviction of the Chord DAVE [HFN Apr ’16], nor quite the ability of that DAC to reveal the finest nuances of the recorded ambience, but then the T+A is a fraction of the price of its British rival (£7950), and very impressive for the money."

 

I would reserve judgement till one has tried it with Hqplayer for both pcm and dsd. It's quite obvious once heard. HFN won't of course be doing such tests. Let's not forget that magazines do have commercial interests, either.

[Miska]

Also from the HFN review:

 

"OK, so there’s not quite the absolute bass extension and conviction of the Chord DAVE [HFN Apr ’16], nor quite the ability of that DAC to reveal the finest nuances of the recorded ambience, but then the T+A is a fraction of the price of its British rival (£7950), and very impressive for the money."

 

I'm pretty sure this refers to data being converted using it's PCM path (TI PCM1795 chips), not through the DSD path. Remember there are two DACs in one box...

[guiltyboxswapper]

I'm pretty sure this refers to data being converted using it's PCM path (TI PCM1795 chips), not through the DSD path. Remember there are two DACs in one box...

 

Indeed, 2 digital sections and 2 D/A paths according to the literature.

 

In the interest of balance, you do need a half decent quiet PC to run HQPlayer at DSD 512 modes. At least a Geforce 950 model, and if you want fast startups, a modern i7 quad core. Building or buying such a machine that's quiet under load will likely set you back €800+ minimum.

 

Also HQPlayer's interface isn't too user friendly so you'll probably have to add a Roon licence on top of that too!

[Sunya]

Wonder why T+A hasn't gone the route of upsampling everything to DSD512 inside the DAC8 and use just the DSD converters instead of the BBs.

[lmitche]

At DSD512 there was no need for a graphics card here.

[guiltyboxswapper]

Wonder why T+A hasn't gone the route of upsampling everything to DSD512 inside the DAC8 and use just the DSD converters instead of the BBs.

 

It's not trivial to do in FPGA nevermind development costs. Utilises 27% average CPU load on a Intel e5-1650v2 (3.5ghz 6 cores) using HQPlayer at DSD 512. That's a serious amount of compute power.

[guiltyboxswapper]

At DSD512 there was no need for a graphics card here.

 

True, can do it with a high end i7 too.

[Sunya]

Mola-Mola does 1 bit 100MHz conversion on a SHARC DSP, so 1 bit 22.5792 MHz (DSD512) shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[guiltyboxswapper]

Mola-Mola does 1 bit 100MHz conversion on a SHARC DSP, so 1 bit 22.5792 MHz (DSD512) shouldn't be that difficult.

 

 

The devil is in the details. Not sure it's fully comparable. Id' have considered a Mola-Mola dac if they weren't $10k+. Miska can comment on this I guess.

[lmitche]

All this hype around upsampled rbcd and pop rock music sound is subjective and lacks any real reference point. And I doubt it really tells anything much about the actual sound quality of this DAC.

I will be lot more interested in hearing from Jared how hopefully natively recorded DSD 256 or DXD masters of large scale classical acoustic music sounds via this new DAC.

I haven't heard the T+A, yet but I have heard the Chord DAVE via HE1000 and HD800 headphones only so far. But one thing was pretty clear to me with masterfiles where I have a reference, that DAVE delivered what could very well be the best digital SQ from any consumer product.

I have heard and owned quite a few dacs but as far as DAVE is concerned it is no hype to say that it is in the SOTA category and possibly the world leader currently.

However much I would wish this hype around the T+A to be more than just hype,I strongly doubt that a DAC that sells for 2700€ will be as good as DAVE.

I am baffled at the use of music and recordings that aren't really very suitable to judge SQ in the elevated highend category keeps popping up over and over again.

Nothing wrong with Hotel California, but certainly not serious test material in real hi fi terms imho.

LOL, Test track snobbery! Now I've heard it all.

[Solstice380]

OK which of you guys has a DAVE or Mola-Mola? LOL

 

I think the DAC 8 DSD is a smart play at this time. Do the best circuits you can and let others do the best software they can. HQPlayer has world class modulators and filters and you couldn't add those to a DAC for the price (even + computer). And you can sell a lot more of them at the price point. :-)

[EuroDriver]

OK which of you guys has a DAVE or Mola-Mola? LOL

 

I think the DAC 8 DSD is a smart play at this time. Do the best circuits you can and let others do the best software they can. HQPlayer has world class modulators and filters and you couldn't add those to a DAC for the price (even + computer). And you can sell a lot more of them at the price point. :-)

 

We had a DAVE in house for 10 days

 

Dave is a very good solution for taking a 16/44 optical stream from a Sonos Connect

 

We have yet to find a way to feed Sonos into HQP, so DAVE wins the prize for Sonos SQ

[Foggie]

LOL, Test track snobbery! Now I've heard it all.

 

+1, geez. It really is "lol".

 

I usually bypass those comments but it never fails to amaze me when I here that crap from the classical crowd that it's THE barometer to evaluate.

 

There is no right or wrong type of music - everyone has their preference and reference point, end of story.

 

Sent from CA app

[hifial]

All this hype around upsampled rbcd and pop rock music sound is subjective and lacks any real reference point. And I doubt it really tells anything much about the actual sound quality of this DAC.

I will be lot more interested in hearing from Jared how hopefully natively recorded DSD 256 or DXD masters of large scale classical acoustic music sounds via this new DAC.

I haven't heard the T+A, yet but I have heard the Chord DAVE via HE1000 and HD800 headphones only so far. But one thing was pretty clear to me with masterfiles where I have a reference, that DAVE delivered what could very well be the best digital SQ from any consumer product.

I have heard and owned quite a few dacs but as far as DAVE is concerned it is no hype to say that it is in the SOTA category and possibly the world leader currently.

However much I would wish this hype around the T+A to be more than just hype,I strongly doubt that a DAC that sells for 2700€ will be as good as DAVE.

I am baffled at the use of music and recordings that aren't really very suitable to judge SQ in the elevated highend category keeps popping up over and over again.

Nothing wrong with Hotel California, but certainly not serious test material in real hi fi terms imho.

 

 

While I agree that your statement comes across as snobby, in a way you do make a point. Let me explain why Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over is ONE of SEVERAL I use to test.

 

I agree that one should use a variety of music (genres, rates, PCM and DSD) to hear how a piece of audio equipment can perform.

And one of the tracks I would use is a test track of native recorded DSD (I would do the same for PCM) of what ever is the highest rate the DAC will accept.

 

The reason I use Hotel California is it is not the most pleasant to hear. I find that the instruments can sound very two dimensional, that when all the instruments start playing all at once it becomes hard sounding and you lose some of the instruments. It lacks life and sounds recorded. This is by no means the only track of music like this but is one that I use.

 

On the T+A DAC 8 DSD it takes this track and transforms it.

The instruments have a three dimensional sound and when they all play at once you can hear each and everyone of them. Everything sounds more like it should, guitars have body and strings sound lifelike. You can hear the decay of the notes in a more natural way. Voice has a body attached to it. Speaking of body, bass hits you. It sounds more like you our at a concert. Alive.

 

So for me if a DAC can take a recording that is passable, sound wise, on its best days and transform it to a "can't what to listen to that again".

 

I planed on giving my first impressions of the T+A and I still will. But the above is a preview.

 

Oh, I might not have owned as many DAC's as you but I have heard MANY high end ones. Not all but quite a few.

And if the T+A can give them a run for the money at $4,000 vs $$$$$ that is something to praise not put down.

[guiltyboxswapper]

I can relate to hifial, there was a particular recording (Inception OST) which never quite sounded right on the Vega through the Blades + NCores. It's not a great recording IMO, I can even hear spots of clipping! The T+A turned that on its head entirely.

[ted_b]

I am surprised we are challenging posters choices of evaluation tracks.

 

To me, the list of eval tracks fill three criteria for me:

1) are incredibly familiar to my ears, every nuance, every note, every silence. Extreme familiarity is number one.

2) are comprised of several tracks/different examples of audio's obstacle course (i.e female vocals, soundstage image density, bass control, frequency extremes, dynamics, male vocals, air, etc etc).

3) are comprised of various sample rates or bit rates

 

In no way do "reference" audiophile tracks have to make this list; some do, but only because I love them, and they tell me something about my playback.

 

BTW, PB's "Let It Rain" (Companion, DSD) is a prominent member of my list, too. I listen for air, the guitar tone, and the placement/solidity of that guitar. Other faves include tracks from Bill Frisell, Gillian Welch, Radiohead, Cowboy Junkies, Cleveland Orchestra, Budapest Festival Orchestra, SRV, Cassandra Wilson, Peter Gabriel, Daniel Lanois, Odd Pearls and Mari Kodama. An eclectic group, from redbook to DSD256.

[lmitche]

Lol, Cowboy Junkies "Hard to Explain" is another great test track. Very complicated and layered. Tough female vocals at the start. I saw them perform it live a few weeks ago. Awesome!

[hifial]

I am surprised we are challenging posters choices of evaluation tracks.

 

To me, the list of eval tracks fill three criteria for me:

1) are incredibly familiar to my ears, every nuance, every note, every silence. Extreme familiarity is number one.

2) are comprised of several tracks/different examples of audio's obstacle course (i.e female vocals, soundstage image density, bass control, frequency extremes, dynamics, male vocals, air, etc etc).

3) are comprised of various sample rates or bit rates

 

In no way do "reference" audiophile tracks have to make this list; some do, but only because I love them, and they tell me something about my playback.

 

BTW, PB's "Let It Rain" (Companion, DSD) is a prominent member of my list, too. I listen for air, the guitar tone, and the placement/solidity of that guitar. Other faves include tracks from Bill Frisell, Gillian Welch, Radiohead, Cowboy Junkies, Cleveland Orchestra, Budapest Festival Orchestra, SRV, Cassandra Wilson, Peter Gabriel, Daniel Lanois, Odd Pearls and Mari Kodama. An eclectic group, from redbook to DSD256.

 

 

+ infinity!

 

Ted, I could not agree with you more.

[hifial]

First Impressions of T+A DAC 8 DSD

 

I was one of the lucky ones at lmitche house for the T+A DAC 8 DSD GTG this past Sat.

First I want to say it was a pleasure meeting Larry (lmitche) and Robert (zorntel) and seeing Ed (EuroDriver) again. All our fine gentlemen and a lot of fun.

 

I will not mention the specific equipment we used. I will leave that to lmitche to decide if and what he would like to mention on the web. But I can assure everyone that what was used was worthy of this "review" and of just about any other one could want to do.

 

So, how would I describe the T+A DAC 8 DSD...

 

Huge dynamics, well-defined transients, very low distortion, true timbrel detail, true textural detail.

The sound is engaging, you are there. Room tells that are not heard with others. A sense of THE room that the band is playing in.

Decays that can be easily heard and are very natural sounding.

There is a presence that most equipment can not produce. A liveliness that brings the music to life. There is an openness to the sound

The highs are extended. Brass has bite but never bright or harsh in an unnatural or a digital way.

Bass has weight, body and a slam that is lifelike. You can hear the air when a drum is struck.

Midrange has a rightness to it. Voices feel like they are with you in the room. There is a body to the voice.

All frequencies have a naturalness to them. There is a smoothness to the sound without being rolled off or soft in anyway as there is still leading edge attack.

 

Is it live? No, but it comes closer then most. It is in a handful that are in this category.

 

Now, this is using HQ Player up-sampling all rates, PCM/DSD, to DSD512.

 

So in conclusion, I think 1 Bit Discrete DSD Converter using a program like HQP on a powerful but quiet PC and up-sampling to DSD512 is the future, here and now.

 

Oh, by the way, anyone want to buy my exaSound e20 MK III with .082 Clock upgrade? I also have a Paul Hynes Design SR12-3 external power supply that goes great with the exaSound or anything else that needs 12v/3.5amps.