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Sonicorbiter - Native DSD support

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It's hooked up to my NuPrime IDA-8 integrated modified by TDDS, doing DSD64 and DSD128, but am not getting DSD256 to work yet. It's in DLNA mode.

 

Send me the output of DAC Diagnostics from the unit's GUI. Until the driver can be made DoP is probably listed to DSD128.

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How about the Chord Mojo?

 

Chord Electronics Ltd Mojo at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

 

Playback:

Status: Running

Interface = 2

Altset = 1

Packet Size = 228

Momentary freq = 176402 Hz (0x16.0ce0)

Feedback Format = 16.16

Interface 2

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 5 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000

Data packet interval: 125 us

access: RW_INTERLEAVED

format: S32_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 176400 (176400/1)

period_size: 4410

buffer_size: 17640

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How about the Chord Mojo?

 

Chord Electronics Ltd Mojo at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

 

Playback:

Status: Running

Interface = 2

Altset = 1

Packet Size = 228

Momentary freq = 176402 Hz (0x16.0ce0)

Feedback Format = 16.16

Interface 2

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 5 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000

Data packet interval: 125 us

access: RW_INTERLEAVED

format: S32_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 176400 (176400/1)

period_size: 4410

buffer_size: 17640

This will not support native DSD as is.

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Received microRendu today. Setup with my W4S DAC2 DSDse, but like the above poster cannot stream native DSD. Using microRendu as NAA, with Roon and HQ Player both on my main PC. Using DOP or PCM there are dropouts no matter what the rate is set at, so can't play music at all. I am using an optical network like Ted Brady. MicroRendu is showing a Gig connection.

 

Thanks

Colin

 

Thanks

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Received microRendu today. Setup with my W4S DAC2 DSDse, but like the above poster cannot stream native DSD. Using microRendu as NAA, with Roon and HQ Player both on my main PC. Using DOP or PCM there are dropouts no matter what the rate is set at, so can't play music at all. I am using an optical network like Ted Brady. MicroRendu is showing a Gig connection.

 

Thanks

Colin

 

Thanks

 

That device does not currently support native DSD on Linux. First W4S has to update the unit's firmware and then we can start our work to support native DSD on it.

 

I recommend that you simplify things and retest. Here are some things to try:

1. Connect server and microRendu directly to your router.

2. Remove complex optical isolators and wireless bridges from the network.

3. Try Roon alone before you move on to Roon / HQ Player and NAA.

4. Don't scan a large library in Roon while testing. Even after Roon finds your library it will continue to work behinds the scenes for a long time (depends on the size of your library) getting information from the web.

5. Check your server build against the Roon and HQ Player minimum hardware requirement specifications..

Roon - minimum requirements

Signalyst - home page

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That device does not currently support native DSD on Linux. First W4S has to update the unit's firmware and then we can start our work to support native DSD on it.

 

I recommend that you simplify things and retest. Here are some things to try:

1. Connect server and microRendu directly to your router.

2. Remove complex optical isolators and wireless bridges from the network.

3. Try Roon alone before you move on to Roon / HQ Player and NAA.

4. Don't scan a large library in Roon while testing. Even after Roon finds your library it will continue to work behinds the scenes for a long time (depends on the size of your library) getting information from the web.

5. Check your server build against the Roon and HQ Player minimum hardware requirement specifications..

Roon - minimum requirements

Signalyst - home page

 

Thanks, Jesus. I've written to W4S about the firmware issue, and I'll hold off using the microRendu until that is resolved. My main PC was recently built to the same spec as recommended by Jussi, and I have been streaming up to 256k with no problem, and native DSD.

 

I'll try a direct Ethernet run to the microRendu instead of optical and see what that does. Thanks very much for your help.

 

Colin

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Tried direct Ethernet from router to microRendu. Dropouts gone. Bizarre. Can stream DSD via DOP but only up to DSD128.

 

Colin

Is it the same optical isolator as Ted's? DSD128 seems to be the default DoP max with XMOS. It's possible to go higher, but the DAC would need to decoding in an FPGA.

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I use a Mellanox fiber card in my PC to a Diablo fiber switch. My NAS and any other device with an Ethernet output is connected via a TP Link gigabit media converter. I replaced only the connection between the router and the uRendu with Ethernet, the rest is still connected via fiber. It works just fine now.

 

Colin

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I have been streaming to my Simaudio 780D from the microrendu for about 24 hours now. Sound is superlative, altough it is a bit early to judge against the internal Mind ethernet-streaming module that equips the 780D. I will post my comments next week.

 

The thing that makes me a bit sad is the current lack of support for native DSD on the microrendu for the Simaudio line of DACs (microrendu however allows streaming DSD64 and DSD128, but in Dop mode). I wonder if there is any realistic hope that native DSD support up to DSD256 can be developped and included in the microrendu Linux kernel in a not too distant future. Will this require some cooperation from Simaudio ? Is there any way a customer like me can help this happen, for ex. in actively supporting development activities ?

 

Regards to the Sonore team!

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I have been streaming to my Simaudio 780D from the microrendu for about 24 hours now. Sound is superlative, altough it is a bit early to judge against the internal Mind ethernet-streaming module that equips the 780D. I will post my comments next week.

 

The thing that makes me a bit sad is the current lack of support for native DSD on the microrendu for the Simaudio line of DACs (microrendu however allows streaming DSD64 and DSD128, but in Dop mode). I wonder if there is any realistic hope that native DSD support up to DSD256 can be developped and included in the microrendu Linux kernel in a not too distant future. Will this require some cooperation from Simaudio ? Is there any way a customer like me can help this happen, for ex. in actively supporting development activities ?

 

Regards to the Sonore team!

 

The big determining factor is what USB receiver circuit is being used. For example if it is an XMOS chip then there already exists a driver for it, which makes it very simple. If it is an amanero, the driver is not yet fully working so it will have to wait until the developers get it sorted out, but once that is done it is simple. If it is something else, that gets harder, someone would have to send the DAC to one of the developers who would try and figure out how it works and write driver for it.

 

John S.

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Would a USB diagnostics output be helpful to sort that out? I would be happy to send one.

 

Post the complete output of Apps/DAC Diagnostics for the device.

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Post the complete output of Apps/DAC Diagnostics for the device.
Here is the Apps/DAC Diagnostics output for the Simaudio 780D DAC.

 

USB output

 

 

DAC description: MOON USB DSD HD Audio 2397:000d

Diagnostic information for this DAC

Simaudio Ltd. MOON USB DSD HD Audio at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

 

Playback:

Status: Running

Interface = 2

Altset = 1

Packet Size = 63

Momentary freq = 44100 Hz (0x5.8332)

Feedback Format = 16.16

Interface 2

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 5 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000

Data packet interval: 125 us access: RW_INTERLEAVED

format: S32_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 44100 (44100/1)

period_size: 5513

buffer_size: 22050

 

 

 

Thanks for having a look.

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Here is the Apps/DAC Diagnostics output for the Simaudio 780D DAC.

 

Thanks for having a look.

Unfortunately, it will not work as-is. They would have to update their firmware first.

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Unfortunately, it will not work as-is. They would have to update their firmware first.

Thanks for the answer. This seems to mean that Simaudio has to do the first move, but how can we make this happen? If I were to contact Simaudio developpers, what should I ask them relative to the firmware update you say is a prerequisite to an eventual support of native DSD in the microrendu kernel ? Or is foolish on my part to try that ?

 

Thanks for youhelp.

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Thanks for the answer. This seems to mean that Simaudio has to do the first move, but how can we make this happen? If I were to contact Simaudio developpers, what should I ask them relative to the firmware update you say is a prerequisite to an eventual support of native DSD in the microrendu kernel ? Or is foolish on my part to try that ?

 

Thanks for youhelp.

 

It's anyones guess if they will cooperate. Tell them you would like the DAC to support the DSD_U32_BE sample format.

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For now, DOP transcoding has to be used to stream DSD from the microrendu to my DAC (Simaudio). I thought this had to be done at the music server level, eg Minimserver or AssetUPnP which both provide for DOP encapsulation of DSD data. I just realized that the microrendu can handle that itself. My question is thus : is it better to leave the DOP transcoding to the microrendu, or does it benefit the microrendu to offload this job to the music server ?

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For now, DOP transcoding has to be used to stream DSD from the microrendu to my DAC (Simaudio). I thought this had to be done at the music server level, eg Minimserver or AssetUPnP which both provide for DOP encapsulation of DSD data. I just realized that the microrendu can handle that itself. My question is thus : is it better to leave the DOP transcoding to the microrendu, or does it benefit the microrendu to offload this job to the music server ?

 

Either way.

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Will test my Lampizator L4G5. I suspect the L7 and L4 use the same Amerano USB receiver. Setting up the uRendu and Sonic Transporter.

I'm hoping to use the microRendu to send native DSD to my Lampizator L4 through its Amerano USB board. I read through the thread, but couldn't determine if this is possible now or a work in progress.

 

Earlier, someone asked why native DSD would matter or which is better. In my case, my DAC is capable of DSD256, but only via native DSD. So without native DSD, my upsampling options are limited to DSD128.

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I'm hoping to use the microRendu to send native DSD to my Lampizator L4 through its Amerano USB board. I read through the thread, but couldn't determine if this is possible now or a work in progress.

 

Earlier, someone asked why native DSD would matter or which is better. In my case, my DAC is capable of DSD256, but only via native DSD. So without native DSD, my upsampling options are limited to DSD128.

 

It's in Amanero's court right now. They are working with the Linux guys (you can watch the progress via Juergen/Lintweaker's github and blog) to create a firmware version that does the job. So far 1099rc2 is buggy to say the least.

 

Then...the dac manufacturers have to be contacted to update the boards (flash firmware; not likely a hardware replace). I'm sure we'll hear from the beta guys a few months before the rest of us get it.

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It's in Amanero's court right now. They are working with the Linux guys (you can watch the progress via Juergen/Lintweaker's github and blog) to create a firmware version that does the job. So far 1099rc2 is buggy to say the least.

 

Then...the dac manufacturers have to be contacted to update the boards (flash firmware; not likely a hardware replace). I'm sure we'll hear from the beta guys a few months before the rest of us get it.

Thanks for the quick reply ted_b.

 

It's good to know that they're working on it. I upgraded my Lampi to DSD256 about a year ago, but so far, the only way I can use the DSD256 is without the server tweaks that make my system sound great (Dual Servers with jPlay, microRendu, etc.), but are currently limited to DoP, and therefore DSD128. I tried DSD256 upsampling with a single server and the sound was, let's say, no longer special. :) I didn't bother to experiment further since I was already getting stellar sound at DSD128 with all of my optimizations in place.

 

Anyway, I can't wait to get my microRendu and see how it compares to what I'm used to. With the second PC in my rig having a Paul Pang USB card and running Audiophile Optimizer & in jPlay hibernate mode, I've tried to accomplish some of the objectives of the microRendu before the microRendu existed. If it can surpass what I'm hearing now, I'll be elated!

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Native DSD support under Roon for Nuprime HD-AVP status is on: pending update

Is there already some software update available? Maybe a beta to test? Can I help out here? I do own the HD-AVP and could test, if required. Let me know.

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