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vortecjr

Sonicorbiter - Native DSD support

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Hi, I recently purchased a NuPrime DAC-10H. The first line of the NuPrime DAC-10H Diagnostics from ultraRendu (SonicOrbiter 2.6) reads:

 

"DAC description: NuPrime DAC-10      16d0:06b2"

 

That leads me to believe that while my DAC is the 10H, it's being recognized simply as a 10, which I'm thinking is a good thing because Sonicorbiter supports Native DSD for the DAC-10. I'm confused, however, because I can't get a DSD256 to actually playback at DSD256 through the DAC-10H. The DAC-10 supports DoP up to DSD128 and Native DSD up to 128 without a driver and 256 via a Windows ASIO driver. I had thought the Sonicorbiter Native DSD support was the equivalent of a Linux driver for a supported DAC, similar to ASIO.

 

Setting Roon Ready Settings of DSD Support to “Native DSD” from the ultraRendu, playback of DSD256, Roon converts to 352.8kHz PCM. Oddly enough (to me anyway), Roon also converts DSD128 to 352.8kHz PCM as well.


Setting Roon Ready Settings of DSD Support to “DoP” from the ultraRendu, playback of DSD256, Roon converts from 11.290MHz to 5.645MHz. However, playing back DSD128, Roon does play back at DSD128 without conversion as I would expect.

 

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? I thought I understood what Native DSD support meant; perhaps not....

 

Thank you!

 

uR Set at Native DSD playback DSD256 file

uR Set at Native DSD playback DSD256 file.jpg

 

uR Set at DOP playback DSD256 file

uR Set at DOP playback DSD256 file.jpg

 

uR Set at DOP playback DSD128 file

uR Set at DOP playback DSD128 file.jpg

 

uR Set at Native DSD playback DSD128 file

uR Set at Native DSD playback DSD128 file.jpg.jpg

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1 hour ago, vortecjr said:

You need to disable all digital signal processing in Roon or you will not get bit perfect playback.

Thank you, Jesus. I've disabled all DSP in Roon.

464496049_RoonDSPDisabled.thumb.jpg.ed14a38ca9ac83517c8a916835a13a67.jpg

 

The conversion to 352.8 PCM appears to be the same, though.

 

uR Set at Native DSD; playback DSD256 file with no DSP

470748531_uRSetatNativeDSDplaybackDSD256filewithnoDSP.thumb.jpg.632f99296bc8043b2cf4b0152a3a07f6.jpg

 

Am I still doing something incorrectly?

 

Thanks again

 

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Something is not right, but I’m not sure what at the moment. You might have to send a log to Roon so they can advise better.

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3 hours ago, vortecjr said:

Something is not right, but I’m not sure what at the moment. You might have to send a log to Roon so they can advise better.

Okay, will do. Thank you.

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4 hours ago, simon_pepper said:

Hi,
Is DSD playback possible with this device? It the USB -> S/PDIF converter from SGC.

DAC description: xCORE USB Audio 2.0      20b1:000a

SPDIF interfaces can only support DoP streaming. 

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8 hours ago, vortecjr said:

SPDIF interfaces can only support DoP streaming

Ok, that explains that behaviour, as when set to ‘Native DSD’ the playback stream is still converted to PCM 176.4

 

What I now need to figure is when set to DoP, the stream is failed to be recognized by the digital input of my NDS.

 

DoP through the UPnP Bridge works fine with the Naim playing the DSD64.

 

So it could be that DSD playback is not possible via the S/PDIF input - question for   Naim.

 

Thanks, Simon

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I just updated page one to reflect changes to the system under Sonicorbiter 2.7. Sonicorbiter 2.7 adds auto configuration for DACs that support native DSD under Linux.

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Cool, the UltraRendu now sees an different Altset 2 with Format now “DSD_U32_BE” indicating that the XMOS U8 chipset in the USB->S/PDIF converter can support Native DSD.

In changing the DSD mode in the Roon Ready Settings, I see that the formats reported for DSD are both DOP and Native.

However makes no difference as the SPDIF input can only take PCM.

 

So any other goodies coming in 2.7?

 

AD21B335-99F6-46EE-ADD1-7A4DA514C9A7.png

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14 hours ago, simon_pepper said:

Cool, the UltraRendu now sees an different Altset 2 with Format now “DSD_U32_BE” indicating that the XMOS U8 chipset in the USB->S/PDIF converter can support Native DSD.

In changing the DSD mode in the Roon Ready Settings, I see that the formats reported for DSD are both DOP and Native.

However makes no difference as the SPDIF input can only take PCM.

 

So any other goodies coming in 2.7?

What I posted above is for "DACs" only and not SPDIF converters. I will post more this weekend.  

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1 hour ago, vortecjr said:

What I posted above is for "DACs" only and not SPDIF converters. I will post more this weekend.  

Ok, cool.

What more can you do, if the downstream DAC can only accept PCM over S/PDIF?

 

Also the UltraRendu doesn't always load the profile of the USB connected device, following reboot/boot-up.
It has to be unplugged and plugged back in, representing it to the OS - is there anyway of delaying device recognition to avoid this unplugging/reinserting?

 

In addition, the UPnP Bridge has to be restarted on reboot/boot-up also. Now this isn't really a problem, as you soon realise you haven't restarted it - but maybe an additional item for 2.7?

 

All sounding good - however

 

Thanks, Simon.

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On 10/5/2018 at 3:21 PM, simon_pepper said:

Also the UltraRendu doesn't always load the profile of the USB connected device, following reboot/boot-up.
It has to be unplugged and plugged back in, representing it to the OS - is there anyway of delaying device recognition to avoid this unplugging/reinserting?

I have exactly the same problem with my UltraRendu and Singxer SU-1 !

Looks like a common problem feature.

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I updated my Signature Rendu SE to 2.7. My Playback Designs MPD-8 no longer supports Native DSD (DSD256). I can play DSD128 if I set the Rendu to DoP.

 

I rebooted my Nucleus +, and restarted the DAC.

 

I’m afraid 2.7 has been a real bust for me.

 

Hopefully Jesus will have a solution.

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14 hours ago, Mercman said:

I updated my Signature Rendu SE to 2.7. My Playback Designs MPD-8 no longer supports Native DSD (DSD256). I can play DSD128 if I set the Rendu to DoP.

 

I rebooted my Nucleus +, and restarted the DAC.

 

I’m afraid 2.7 has been a real bust for me.

 

Hopefully Jesus will have a solution.

We isolated the issue with your DAC and should have the fix integrated very soon. I’ll keep you posted. 

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5 hours ago, vortecjr said:

We isolated the issue with your DAC and should have the fix integrated very soon. I’ll keep you posted. 

That’s great news. Thanks Jesus.

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On 10/9/2018 at 6:58 AM, Mercman said:

I updated my Signature Rendu SE to 2.7. My Playback Designs MPD-8 no longer supports Native DSD (DSD256). I can play DSD128 if I set the Rendu to DoP.

 

Mercman, this should be fixed now. Can you update, test, and report back?

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After several attempts I got no answers from you Jesus and Andrew. I do not mean to be disrespectful but would it be possible to at least reply to my messages regards the fact that I can't do anymore native DSD 256 with my Oppo 205. 

Thank you

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2 hours ago, soares said:

After several attempts I got no answers from you Jesus and Andrew. I do not mean to be disrespectful but would it be possible to at least reply to my messages regards the fact that I can't do anymore native DSD 256 with my Oppo 205. 

Thank you

There was a post before, but it seems you resolved it.

Anyway, maybe after the update to 2.7 you just need to select native DSD in Settings.

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@vortecjr

I have DirectDSD selected in Sonicorbiter 2.7. Playing in A+ and outputing DSD128. PS Audio Stellar DAC.

 

I have noticed that under DAC diagnostics it now reads

Playback:
  Status: Running
    Interface = 1
    Altset = 3
    Packet Size = 272
    Momentary freq = 176398 Hz (0x16.0cc0)
    Feedback Format = 16.16

 

The Altset is now 3 instead of 1 which I noticed is indicated for both PCM and when I deselect DirectDSD and upsample to DSD-DOP. 

 

Is that the correct momentary freq for dsd128? 

 

Also, the SQ is significantly better with DirectDSD! Could this be due to less work since the Ultrarendu doesn't have to package the DSD into PCM containers?

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Yes its correct for DSD128. They should sound the same unless you think a fraction of a percent of CPU usage will make a difference.  Also, it's my understanding based on past emails with Ted S that his code converts native DSD streams to DoP for post processing so nothing to gain except more processing in your DAC.    

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1 hour ago, vortecjr said:

Yes its correct for DSD128. They should sound the same unless you think a fraction of a percent of CPU usage will make a difference.  Also, it's my understanding based on past emails with Ted S that his code converts native DSD streams to DoP for post processing so nothing to gain except more processing in your DAC.    

Stellar  DAC is a Nuwave DSD with an analog preamp and larger chassis. 

 

Ess 9010 chip. 

 

Maybe influence the downstream digital lens reclocking performance ? Noise induced by higher bandwidth in usb cable? 

Something is going on. 

 

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