Help on Computer Speakers...

[anwaypasible]

1) This is an international forum, so people actually come from all walks of life and from the whole world.

I am from Denmark., nobody is poor in my country, and I'm fighting politically to keep it that way.

Consider voting for Bernie Sanders if you like that kind of egalitarian system.

 

2) The audiophile community generally prefers highly resoluted, low distorted, full range natural sound of linear frequency response.

There are variations, but it is futile to get all upset about it.

 

3) People are not evil because they have money to buy good sound equipment!

Some save for a long time, some just make a lot of money, som buy everything second hand and some of us comes from areas with no poor people.

Consider buying a set of the best equipment you can afford, new or second hand, good enough that it will never break.

I bet you'll save in the long run.

Again, consider voting for Bernie Sanders if you like the more egalitarian solution.

 

4) People are not evil because they have university degrees or other higher education.

I find that no good education is ever wasted on anybody.

Also, as you actually get paid to go to university in the Nordic countries, people here have higher education independently of parents demographics.

Again, consider putting your energy into the Bernie Sanders campaign, if that is your style.

 

5) Systems that can self calibrate are more likely to keep satisfying you in your life, thus you don't have to re-buy if you move. Changing hardware to tweak sound is so last century.

System sound in your home is also predictably more like it was in the shop or at your friend's place.

 

6) I agree that our rampaging capitalistic system is creating havoc in peoples lives and on mother earth.

Yet, yelling in somebody's window (or forum) will not change anything.

What works? Personal choices, consumer choices, carefully arguing, work choices and political work!

 

 

And a virtual audio hug, if you care for that kind of thing.

Good luck.

 

why the need to undermine my intelligence?

english is a universal language that we've all already came to the conclusion to use, telling me the forum is international and|or that people come from all walks of life is a mute point.

i don't need your oppressing babysitting tactics.

 

clearly you are yelling, whether it is at me or at yourself i'm uncertain of.

but informing me of what audiophiles prefer seems like another mute point considering i've joined an audio forum with 'audiophile' stamped in the name.

 

your choice of the word evil in conjunction with the word money only raises warrant into your psychological profile.

i didn't say people were evil if they had more money than other people.

there's gotta be situations in this world were people simply had large paychecks fall onto their lap for honest work.

 

again, your choice of the word evil in conjunction with university degrees or higher education worries me.

i didn't say people were evil if they graduated college.

i implied there is a chance they don't possess any natural talent despite being able to memorize how to do the job.

that translates to a person incapable of thinking ahead when|if necessary.

it also means the person has a higher likelihood of forgetting when emotions get too high.

 

yet another thing that you said is worrying me.

you do you realize self-calibration is only as good as the circuit programmed to do the calibration, right?

i'm saying if the self-calibration circuit has aged there is a high probability the calibration is an error.

i'm also saying if the self-calibration circuit happens to age faster than the circuit it is calibrating, you'll be lead to believe the product is unusable when in fact it is.

some might think this is good practice for repair persons and resellers, but in actuality the situation is more daunting considering freedom from chaos is not guaranteed and when it comes time to need & use something but we are stuck without because of the lame self-calibration circuit going out - not only did we lose our opportunity to use the hardware, we also lost the opportunity to be involved .. to participate .. to learn .. to know .. to be prepared.

 

well thanks for telling me the view in denmark is politically aware somewhat as a union, it really touches my heart.

but based on the morality i've seen, as well as the sensibility & practicality, i don't think i can digest your reaching out to agree.

 

i'm not certain about denmark, but in america we have this thing called arbitration:

'Other trials do not take place in courts at all, but in quasi-judicial bodies or in administrative agencies with adjudicatory power created by statute to make binding determinations with simplified procedural practices, such as arbitration.'

[anwaypasible]

Well one tip I can give you is to avoid saying something like "this forum is one of the most distorted i've ever come across." in the first line of your first post on joining a new forum. And try to keep your comments concise and about the topic of the thread if you actually want to engage in discussions with other members of the forum

 

you are not helping yourself at all.

you've infringed on five of my civil rights with the above post, not including your first one towards me.

if you ever visit america and it feels as though you've got 'unwelcome status' .. remember our time together.

 

and you're old too!? you should be ashamed of yourself making me consider people in spain are under developed, i hope it is solely you.

don't bother talking to me anymore, i'm placing you on my ignore list here on the forum.

[solrighal]

Brilliant! I've been ill in bed all day and I finally get up, turn on the computer only to see an American citizen preaching democracy to a Dane. I think I may be hallucinating

[Paul R]

you are not helping yourself at all.

you've infringed on five of my civil rights with the above post, not including your first one towards me.

if you ever visit america and it feels as though you've got 'unwelcome status' .. remember our time together.

 

and you're old too!? you should be ashamed of yourself making me consider people in spain are under developed, i hope it is solely you.

don't bother talking to me anymore, i'm placing you on my ignore list here on the forum.

 

 

You know, if all you want to do is cause trouble, I can recommend several other internet fora you would be quote happy in.

 

On the other hand, if you are just another incarnation of one of the banned troublemakers, haven't you got anything better to do?

[tranz]

Someone needs a hug...

[Blake]

Brilliant! I've been ill in bed all day and I finally get up, turn on the computer only to see an American citizen preaching democracy to a Dane. I think I may be hallucinating

 

On behalf of all Americans, please accept our apologies for "anwaypasible". In his defense, he may be medicated at the moment...

[solrighal]

On behalf of all Americans, please accept our apologies for "anwaypasible". In his defense, he may be medicated at the moment...

 

 

I know mate, I realized it might sound as though I was insulting a whole Nation but I couldn't resist. No harm meant brother.

[Jud]

In his defense, he may be medicated at the moment...

 

Or perhaps not.

[carewser]

Someone needs a hug...

 

Or a job

Also, as you actually get paid to go to university in the Nordic countries, people here have higher education independently of parents demographics. Again, consider putting your energy into the Bernie Sanders campaign, if that is your style.

But isn't Bernie Sanders just the kind of guy who would champion an egalitarian system like state-funded secondary education like you have in Nordic countries? You seem to speak out for and against Sanders.

[Paul R]

Or a job

But isn't Bernie Sanders just the kind of guy who would champion an egalitarian system like state-funded secondary education like you have in Nordic countries? You seem to speak out for and against Sanders.

 

Who is Bernie Sanders? Does he not make amplifiers??

[Audio_ELF]

Who is Bernie Sanders? Does he not make amplifiers??

Is he the nephew of the chicken man?

[Jud]

Who is Bernie Sanders? Does he not make amplifiers??

 

Sanders Sound Systems - Magtech Amp

[DigiPete]

Sanders Sound Systems - Magtech Amp

 

 

It does look like Sanders is a cool brand for amps as well as politics ;-)

 

Interesting.

[Blake]

Or perhaps not.

 

That is a scary thought.

[killcare]

Thanks for a (mostly) illuminating and useful thread.

I am also looking to improve my desk setup.

One question: starting with an open book, would you go for powered speakers (say Audioengine 2+ as a benchmark) or passive speakers and a small amp and separate DAC? Source will be mostly Roon with Tidal and my own ripped CDs on a NAS.

[wwaldmanfan]

Thanks for a (mostly) illuminating and useful thread.

I am also looking to improve my desk setup.

One question: starting with an open book, would you go for powered speakers (say Audioengine 2+ as a benchmark) or passive speakers and a small amp and separate DAC? Source will be mostly Roon with Tidal and my own ripped CDs on a NAS.

 

I think the Audioengine 2+ are a terrific value. Certainly adequate for a near-field setup like an office desk. The only reason to go with separates would be if you might want to use headphones as well.

I started with the Audioengines, but later connected them to my home office DVR/cable box/HDTV after getting the Parasound/Sennheiser headphone audiio setup, which, for me, is more practical for late night music listening when the wife is sleeping, etc.

[LostHighway]

Like Agropo on page one of this thread I own the Emotiva AirMotiv 4s for my desktop speakers. IMO they are a bit more resolving and bit smoother than AudioEngine A5+ and they are also a bit smaller. I find them vastly superior to the AudioEngine A2+ but the AirMotivs are larger. I have not heard the KEFs mentioned in this thread but I have little doubt that they are good. You might also consider the Definitive Technology Inclines, Adam speakers and perhaps Dynaudio depending on your budget and what size you can tolerate.

 

I am typing on a Logitech keyboard and I have used and liked some of their mice but I would not buy their speakers YMMV.

 

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." H L Menken (I believe this applies to other people's taste in music and audio equipment as well)

[esldude]

You know, if all you want to do is cause trouble, I can recommend several other internet fora you would be quote happy in.

 

On the other hand, if you are just another incarnation of one of the banned troublemakers, haven't you got anything better to do?

 

I would suggest learning to use capital letters in his spare time Paul. That would be one tiny step for him.

[carewser]

I am typing on a Logitech keyboard and I have used and liked some of their mice but I would not buy their speakers YMMV.

 

Have you ever listened to any of their high-end speaker systems as in <$100?

[LostHighway]

Have you ever listened to any of their high-end speaker systems as in <$100?

 

Perhaps you mean >$100?

 

To tell the truth although I've heard numerous Logitech speaker set ups, either at the homes of acquaintances or when dragged along on shopping trips as the "more knowledgeable friend", I've never kept close track of model numbers or price points. My general impression, however, is that the more elaborate they become, e.g. 2.1 rather than a stereo pair, the worse value they represent.

 

If you're happy with you're speakers that 's great, be happy! My opinion or anyone else's here doesn't make them sound any different, but I still wouldn't recommend them to a third party.

[davidbeinct]

^^^Indeed. You see this behavior all across internet fora. New user (at least of the forum, but often to the hobby referenced) comes having already made a choice, seeking validation. Doesn't get it. Digs in heels. Sometimes it gets nasty, sometimes not.

 

Examples: "Hey guys, what do you think of my new Mongoose mountain bike? I got it at WalMart, it's full suspension and way cheaper than what those charlatans at the bike shop were trying to get rich selling." Mountain biking denizens of the internet, "Well, that's not really a mountain bike, and as you get better and start taking jumps, hitting rock gardens etc. it's going to fall apart." Newbie, "You guys are in on the conspiracy to make the local bike shop guys rich."

 

Another: "Hey, I'm thinking of taking up motorcycling. My older cousin's friend says he has a GSX-R1000 for sale, it's been down a couple of times but it's in really good shape. He says if I'm easy with my wrist I won't get into any trouble." Motorcycling denizens of the internet "A race replica liter bike isn't an ideal first bike. Maybe take the safety class and see how much fun a small bike can be?"

Newbie: "You guys are a bunch of wimps. I'm surprised you ever take your bikes out with attitudes like that. My cousin said if you can't wheelie it in all gears it's not a real bike!"

[LostHighway]

Thanks for a (mostly) illuminating and useful thread.

I am also looking to improve my desk setup.

One question: starting with an open book, would you go for powered speakers (say Audioengine 2+ as a benchmark) or passive speakers and a small amp and separate DAC? Source will be mostly Roon with Tidal and my own ripped CDs on a NAS.

 

With the caveat that this is just my opinion I think you can get very good desktop sound with either passive speakers and an external amp OR with active (powered) speakers. While there is a theoretical case to be made for the superiority of internally powered speakers my experience is that implementation almost always trumps theory in audio. To me the main advantage of internally powered speakers is simply fewer boxes and cables but should trouble arise with the amplification you might wish you had an external amp.

I think the AudioEngines and Emotivas are fine for relatively inexpensive powered speakers. I have not heard the KEF Egg or X300 but almost everything I've heard about them has been favorable. I believe Adam, Genelec and Dynaudio also have well regarded offerings in the roughly $650 - $1100/pr range. If you have very deep pockets the PMC TwoTwo.5 or ATC SCM20ASL might be worth auditioning. This is far from an exhaustive list. Even if you have the physical space for larger speakers for nearfield listening I strongly recommend smaller speaker systems that approximate a point source.

 

There are also a great many, very good, small, passive speakers voiced for nearfield use. There are so many variables that it is difficult to hypothesize performance per dollar when comparing passive to active systems. If you choose to go down this road I can recommend the small chip amps like the 47 Labs Gaincard or its semi clones (many DIY). I am a little less sanguine about small inexpensive switching amps but I confess that I'm not terribly current on that technology.

 

If you have further questions I'll try to be of help but I'm sure there are many participants here with far more experience and expertise than I possess when it comes to desktop audio.

[kumakuma]

To me the main advantage of internally powered speakers is simply fewer boxes and cables but should trouble arise with the amplification you might wish you had an external amp.

 

Another advantage of powered speakers is that the internal amplifiers have already been matched to the speakers so you don't need to worry about synergy between separate components.

[carewser]

Perhaps you mean >$100?

 

Nope, I mean't <$100 because > means greater than and < means less than so I mean't over $100/system.

 

^^^Indeed. You see this behavior all across internet fora. New user (at least of the forum, but often to the hobby referenced) comes having already made a choice, seeking validation. Doesn't get it. Digs in heels. Sometimes it gets nasty, sometimes not.

 

Examples: "Hey guys, what do you think of my new Mongoose mountain bike? I got it at WalMart, it's full suspension and way cheaper than what those charlatans at the bike shop were trying to get rich selling." Mountain biking denizens of the internet, "Well, that's not really a mountain bike, and as you get better and start taking jumps, hitting rock gardens etc. it's going to fall apart." Newbie, "You guys are in on the conspiracy to make the local bike shop guys rich."

 

Another: "Hey, I'm thinking of taking up motorcycling. My older cousin's friend says he has a GSX-R1000 for sale, it's been down a couple of times but it's in really good shape. He says if I'm easy with my wrist I won't get into any trouble." Motorcycling denizens of the internet "A race replica liter bike isn't an ideal first bike. Maybe take the safety class and see how much fun a small bike can be?" Newbie: "You guys are a bunch of wimps. I'm surprised you ever take your bikes out with attitudes like that. My cousin said if you can't wheelie it in all gears it's not a real bike!"

 

I'm nowhere near as naive as you think. I'm well aware that Logitech are not the last word in fidelity, in fact they're not even close, my point all along has been for the money they're good but I don't for a moment think my Logitech's could compete in terms of either resolution, soundstage, or frequency response with almost any of your systems. You assumed because I asked if they had ever listened to Logitech speakers that I thought they're all that and I know they're not. The only thing my two TOTL Logitech's would have a hope of improving against some of your systems would be the frequency response and even then we'd probably have to overlook the flatness of it.

 

By the way, if you're going to get into motorcycling I would agree that a GSX-R1000 is a bad choice for a first bike I would suggest a new Kawasaki Ninja H2R. Go big or go home.

 

Another advantage of powered speakers is that the internal amplifiers have already been matched to the speakers so you don't need to worry about synergy between separate components.

 

Exactly.

 

As one person here said, going to separates means falling down the rabbit hole of buying this and that and this and something else and something else and having to make sure it all matches, with a package 2.1 system all those things are already solved.

[davidbeinct]

Nope, I mean't <$100 because > means greater than and < means less than so I mean't over $100/system.

Thanks for clearing that up.