plissken Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Ok here is skinny: I'm going to take Holst The Planets, Telarc 20 Bit CD, featuring Yoel Levi and the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra and rip track one (Mars, The Bringer of War). The rip will be with EAC and full 1411Kbps (16/44.1). I will then make 9 more copies of the original ripped file and all the MD5 checksums will match. So a total of 10 files. This will be stored in a folder called round 1. I will make another folder with another 10 copies called round 2. For both folders one file will be randomly chosen. Then converted to FLAC, then zipped, then unzipped, and converted back to WAV and maintain the same MD5 checksum. I will post a password protected zip with a key to which one of the 10 in round 1 and round 2 are the wav/flac/zip/unzip/wav. All file creation / modification times will be the same. This is open to the first 3 respondents. PM me for the FTP site and credentials. You'll have 24 hours after I send the login information to evaluate and PM me your results. I'll screen record the entire file creation process and make it available on youtube after. It's time to put this absurd notion of MD5 identical files sounding different due to conversion or compression to pasture. Link to comment
esldude Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Oh I think you are very misguided thinking this will put the issue to rest. Naive perhaps. I applaud the effort. I should ask to be one of the first three just based on risk to reward ratios. I have a one percent chance of the grand just at random. Assuming you have to pick correctly in both round 1 and then round 2 for the win. I will demur however as everyone knows I don't believe the effect is there to be heard. Good luck on this anyway. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
plissken Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Oh I think you are very misguided thinking this will put the issue to rest. Naive perhaps. I applaud the effort. I should ask to be one of the first three just based on risk to reward ratios. I have a one percent chance of the grand just at random. Assuming you have to pick correctly in both round 1 and then round 2 for the win. I will demur however as everyone knows I don't believe the effect is there to be heard. Good luck on this anyway. Yep you have to pick both rounds. 1% of guessing it correctly. That's why it's only open to the first three participants. Now if we want to make it open to a hundred members then we are talking 4 rounds. It may not put the issue to rest but it will let me slap some of these idiots up side the head pretty damned hard. Link to comment
esldude Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Maybe it should only be open to people in Sydney who have been mentored by Alex. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
esldude Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Racist! Well if the Mizzou football team decides to align with you I don't know what to do. I have no presidency from which I can resign. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
wgscott Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Generation wuss has arrived. Link to comment
esldude Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Generation wuss has arrived. No disagreement from me on that. HTFU. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Audiophile Neuroscience Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Racist! Hi Bill ! Good to see I haven't missed much since last dropping in many months ago. I did drop in once to see that Esldude thought delta sigma dacs were potentially closer to the ideal converter than multibits. I was gonna ask why but then figured I'd just listen and compare them instead. I think that must be Alex's excellent mentoring ;-). I must say the MSB ladder Dacs do sound nice paired with Vivid Giya speakers. Let you boys get back to it then. Sound Minds Mind Sound Link to comment
firedog Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi Bill ! Good to see I haven't missed much since last dropping in many months ago. I did drop in once to see that Esldude thought delta sigma dacs were potentially closer to the ideal converter than multibits. I was gonna ask why but then figured I'd just listen and compare them instead. I think that must be Alex's excellent mentoring ;-). I must say the MSB ladder Dacs do sound nice paired with Vivid Giya speakers. Let you boys get back to it then. I think MSB DACs probably sound good with just about anything. It could even be for reasons other than the "ladder". May really good PS and analog sections explain just as much about it. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
esldude Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi Bill ! Good to see I haven't missed much since last dropping in many months ago. I did drop in once to see that Esldude thought delta sigma dacs were potentially closer to the ideal converter than multibits. I was gonna ask why but then figured I'd just listen and compare them instead. I think that must be Alex's excellent mentoring ;-). I must say the MSB ladder Dacs do sound nice paired with Vivid Giya speakers. Let you boys get back to it then. MSB ADC's weren't bad either. I used one for several years. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Audiophile Neuroscience Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yeah, I've spent time at home with a MSB Platinum IV DAC and pondering whether it is coloured or was that just the way digital was always supposed to sound, like analogue ? Makes me wonder what a Diamond V can do, let alone a Select II. Femto clocks, special ladder DACS, Linear Power supplies....something is making a difference to the way bits are rendered. Interestingly,I note that the Gryphon Kalliope DAC's power supply is totally separated from the pc usb 5V, not just galvanically isolated.Relevant? I don't know, but it also sounds amazing. Sound Minds Mind Sound Link to comment
plissken Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 I thought I would be inundated with beliebers already... Funny how removing the answers ahead of the evaluation changes things. Link to comment
firedog Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I thought I would be inundated with beliebers already... Funny how removing the answers ahead of the evaluation changes things. Or it just mean no one is interested, and nothing more than that. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Jud Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Maybe it should only be open to people in Sydney who have been mentored by Alex. Oddly enough, if there *were* an effect, I think that would actually help. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
plissken Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Or it just mean no one is interested, and nothing more than that. That's totally plausible. Unlike some others I actually consider all reasoned possibilities. There's also the possibility that identical files sound identical and when push comes to shove talk is cheap. I'll leave the offer open till EOD Saturday EST. After that I'll consider my point proven. I don't even need any participation for an actual data point in trying to give away $1000. No participation is a data point in and of itself. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Obviously the reason things sound different in Sydney is due to the Coriolis Effect on the quantum particles of the electrons zipping along the RCA cables... No electron left behind. Link to comment
plissken Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 I electronically wired money to Australia once. It was for $300. But since it was the intertubes it screwed up and was $14,277 and I had checks bouncing all over the place stateside. I called up the bank on good ol analag pots line (it was a hidden pay phone in Detroit so I knew it was old school). They had me put the $$ on a Voyager USB stick and postal mail it. Link to comment
firedog Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 That's totally plausible. Unlike some others I actually consider all reasoned possibilities. There's also the possibility that identical files sound identical and when push comes to shove talk is cheap. I'll leave the offer open till EOD Saturday EST. After that I'll consider my point proven. I don't even need any participation for an actual data point in trying to give away $1000. No participation is a data point in and of itself. Nah. I followed the debate in the other thread. Don't have an opinion set in stone. But going to the trouble of putzing around with the files and doing a listening test? Just not interested. I bet most people are like me. Lack of participation IS a data point. But it proves nothing, other than the fact that there was no participation. Any other conclusion on your part is based on assumptions apparently stemming from your predetermined ideas about the issue. Not based on fact or science. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three BXT Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
plissken Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Nah. I followed the debate in the other thread. Don't have an opinion set in stone. But going to the trouble of putzing around with the files and doing a listening test? Just not interested. I bet most people are like me. That is why I dangled $1000. You can't even give it away sometimes :-) Lack of participation IS a data point. But it proves nothing, other than the fact that there was no participation. Any other conclusion on your part is based on assumptions apparently stemming from your predetermined ideas about the issue. Not based on fact or science. It's just a datapoint. People can draw, just as you have done, whatever conclusion they like. Yours is just 'stemming from your predetermined ideas about the issue'. The conclusion that they can't draw is that there is an audible difference. Facts are fun. Link to comment
jabbr Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 How many times can I do the challenge? Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
plissken Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 You can perform the challenge as many times as you like jabbr. You can however only send in one set of results ;-) Link to comment
wgscott Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 That is why I dangled $1000. You can't even give it away sometimes :-) That's audiophile chump-change. Won't even get you a half-decent power cord. Link to comment
wgscott Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi Bill ! I'm hoping we are at the point where we can laugh a little. Link to comment
plissken Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 That's audiophile chump-change. Won't even get you a half-decent power cord. It will buy a lot of music. It'll get you mostly there for something like a Wyred or Oppo HA-1 etc... Also laughing rights at my shipping off $1000 Link to comment
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