Marantz DAC / Disc Player 'Special Edition' SA-14S1 SE (SRP £1799)

[徐中銳]

« £1799 » is significant because that's the key price and primary region intended for these 30th Anniversary... Briefly, 'Special Edition' originated in Britain, then were ordered too by « official » Marantz distributors throughout Europe, Asia Pacific... But, « SE » products weren't ever imported into North America—nor released as such in native Japan ‽

 

In New Zealand, albeit always more expensive, I'm awaiting—usual delayed arrivals due to, let's say, shipping hierarchy—to audition both the SA-14S1 SE and its matching PM-14S1 SE Integrated Amp. A few days ago, I found Andrew Everard's September Hi-Fi News, 4 page, review available online in pdf. Noteworthy excerpts :

In common with other CD and SACD/CD players further down [their] range, the SA-14S1 SE combines the dual functions of disc playback with 'computer audio' compatibility, having both a USB Type-A input on the front panel, to which memory devices can be attached, and an asynchronous USB Type-B input for direct computer along with optical and coaxial digital inputs, to the rear.

 

Ground and signal isolation is used on the asynchronous USB input to eliminate any noise sneaking down the cable from the connected computer, and as well as PCM-based high-resolution content at up to 192kHz/24-bit, the player can also accept both DSD64/2.8MHz and DSD128/5.6MHz over the USB connection, as well as playing SACD discs. What’s more, unlike many a DSD-capable DACs designed to handle DSD by conversion to PCM, the Marantz uses TI’s DSD1792A DAC/digital filter/noise shaper to handle one-bit audio in native form [see Paul Miller’s Lab Report, p41]...

 

 

[From] SHEER CLARITY

Whether playing SACDs, or DSD files from my MacBook via the USB input, and indeed whether with high-res or CD-quality music, the Marantz pairing simply delivers musical communication, while at the same time having all the power and control required to slam out larger musical forces, be they orchestral or electric. To these ears it's a combination capable of setting new standards in the sub-£2000 hi-fi separates arena. Without all the fuss of fiddling and adjustment, it just gets on with the job of delivering the music in a manner that's highly entertaining, and often really rather startling in impact.

 

[And from] SOURCE AGNOSTIC

By this stage I was getting intrigued by the secret of the success of these new SEs, and tried splitting them up and reconnecting them one at a time into my reference system, but to no avail: both of them are remarkable when used 'on their own', and the two together just reflect each other's abilities.

 

The same goes when comparing straight disc playback with the same recording streamed from computer: I was able to back-to-back SACDs and DSD files of the same tracks without hearing any differences consistently enough to enable me to tell the two apart, and the same goes when doing comparisons at CD-quality.

 

The only conclusion to draw is that the Marantz duo is pretty-much source-agnostic...

[realhifi]

« £1799 » is significant because that's the key price and primary region intended for these 30th Anniversary... Briefly' date=' '[b']Special Edition[/b]' originated in Britain, then were ordered too by « official » Marantz distributors throughout Europe, Asia Pacific... But, « SE » products weren't ever imported into North America—nor released as such in native Japan ‽

 

In New Zealand, albeit always more expensive, I'm awaiting—usual delayed arrivals due to, let's say, shipping hierarchy—to audition both the SA-14S1 SE and its matching PM-14S1 SE Integrated Amp. A few days ago, I found Andrew Everard's September Hi-Fi News, 4 page, review available online in pdf. Noteworthy excerpts :

 

Want.

[Kimo]

I own the S1. I wonder how much different the SE sounds? Maybe I missed it in the review?

[徐中銳]

Pardon (especially to David above),

I'm especially busy at the moment and have had to temper my inclinations to write long detailed Posts or quick replies—even if it would help readers as well as Ken (the key engineer of the SE products and also a friend through the previous New Zealand Marantz distributor, see this Note [which I should make time to update]).

 

A short answer to the difference between standard 14S1s and its 'Special Edition' re-working as said by Ken himself (there's a 20-second Cantonese introduction before KI's accented English) :

 

Here, for another (longer) answer...

[John Mason]

very nice.

 

I still have a CD-63 SE CD player (circa 1994) under the bed gathering dust (obviously the I-Signature was "the one to have" at the time). Only today I was thinking that I should perhaps dig it out and plug it into the Naim DAC to see how it sounds compared to flac playback from the PC and/or Pi2

[徐中銳]

Greetings John,

recalling their digital design evolution, I've retrieved the following interview with Tetsuya Onagi from a 2003 interview :

You joined Marantz in 1973, so you also started working on CD Players from a rather early stage?

I wasn't a part of the team that developed the first CD player by Philips, but there were some Marantz engineers involved. Once these engineers came back to Japan, we started to develop our own CD pickup system and build our own CD players with parts (drive mechanisms, decoders, demodulators, error correction designs and DA Converters) received from Philips. The error correction circuitry back then was a partly discrete design and all servo related designs were analog. We started developing our own CD Player in 1982, and in April 1983, we released the CD-73, the second Marantz CD Player to be put on the market.

Is it true that the Marantz/Philips DACs back then were 14-bit?

Yes, it was 14-bit, but we used a 14x over-sampling digital filter and noise shaper with the DA Converter. No one back then used digital filers or noise shaping and this was our proprietary technology. These technologies helped us gain signal-to-noise ration and resolution from the 14-bit DA Converter that rivaled that of 16-bit DA Converter Back then, it was hard to create a truly 16-bit DA Converter, so we made sure the Converters were proper at 14-bit and covered the remainder 2-bits with the digital filter and noise shaper circuits.

CD started as a medium without noise, unlike vinyl. then eventually, manufacturers started to incorporate designs to minimise digital noise and improve sound quality. When did Marantz start working on improving sound quality and noise?

I think we started working on those issues earlier than other manufactureres. We had sound quality improvement circuitry incorporated in the CD-54 and CD-84, which were released in 1984. Back then, we used to separate the analogue and digital circuit boards, and although we only used one power transformer, there were dedicated windings for the audio and servo circuits.

Did those improvements show up on data?

No, not on data. We started to find these things out by trial and error, whilst we were making prototypes and holding listening tests. Eventually, we found out that we had to incorporate various sound quality improvements; otherwise we really couldn't gain any proper separation and ended up with a smeared sound field. Our largest discovery back then was with the full size die-cast chassis first used in the CD-94 in 1986, and we ended up using that chassis principle for the next ten years.

From your personal perspective, when did the sound quality of CD Players change radically?

Well, the best improvement we achieved was definitely with the CD-94, so that would be 1986. Due to the solid and rigid chassis design, we were able to gain a good signal-to-noise ratio with a clear and detailed sound.

Having worked primarily on CD players for all these years, what do you think is the secret in making a good sound CD player?

Well, I'd say back to basics and keep it simple. You can't really improve something that is inferior to start with, well you could, but there is always a limit. Say you have noise issues, you can add a shielding plate or change the grounding scheme, but they won't be fundamental improvements. So, you have to make sure that there is minimal noise to start with. Adding a shielding plate will add to the manufacturing and parts cost and add more wiring.

So the secret is in keeping the design simple and using quality parts. I think you'll understand what I mean when you look inside a Marantz CD player.

Do you take the same approach for Super Audio CD players?

With Super Audio CD players, we take the same approach, but it is more evolved. Super Audio CD players have a lot more highend and dynamic range than CD players, so to get desirable signal-to-noise and separation performance, little tricks just won't cut it. When you deal with dynamic range exceeding 120 dB, a lot of consideration need to go into each individual component, how it behaves and how it's structured. Our HDAM low noise amplifiers have helped immensely in that regard.

Last question. I hear that you're one of the most enthusiastic audiophiles at Marantz, what kind of sound do you personally like?

Personally, I dislike sounds with a narrow frequency range. I understand that narrow sounds have a distinction and character that is maybe sometimes required, but personally, I always go for sounds with a wide range and high signal-to-noise ratio, with lots of detailed information.

The sounds you can get from a disc is different compared to the real thing performed live, so I try to achieve a pleasing sound from a disc. You can't really capture and playback the full dynamics of an orchestra performed live, but I can try to achieve a sound that lets you identify as many instruments as possible.

Are you not interested in simple music?

Actually, I am, I like vocals accompanied by piano. In that respect, I want to recreate the mood and atmosphere of the performance, so that the listener grasps every emotional detail of the performer. As a manufacturer, I want to promote the reality of music using our products to achieve a sound with very low noise and the best signal-to-noise performance possible.

Here, from Yasuhiro Sarashina, for glimpse of their Amplifier development viewpoint

[徐中銳]

Okay, the sad facts about my country's Marantz retail prices. Google states that right now :

« 1 New Zealand Dollar equals

0.43 British Pound »

 

So, on the appointed distributor's own online sales site for the 2 standard (non SE) 14S1 products :

SA-14S1 $6599 NZD = £2833

PM-14S1 $6999 NZD = £3004

 

Now you know—how lucky you are in Europe

[Kimo]

Currently, my SA 14s1 is sitting in its box. The Aqua supersedes it. Nevertheless, I could happily live with 14, if I weren't running the Aqua. More air and dynamics would be a welcome addition to the already solid, basically neutral performance. Not available in the US, and too pricey elsewhere. Too bad.

[徐中銳]

Pardon Kimo,

I generally delay immediately replying, letting my thoughts potentially evolve and solidify before setting it down for keeps.

 

Yeah, let's focus on their standard SA-14S1 for a few Posts, found :

Plus, rotated 920 x 994 pixels internal view :

 

In short, Ken Ishiwata's very savvy about creating products to specific price points (fundamentally of Japan and Europe, whereas other countries' pricing are at appointed distributors' [in]discretion).

 

Last month, when researching, I noticed a British retailer discounting their stock of the original SA-14S1 (something like 1/3 off MSRP aka, for people outside America, manufacturer's suggested retail price). Good deal ? It depends on our needs and understanding of this product.

 

Briefly, myself—how I listen to spoken podcasts and all manner of eclectic favourites in various resolutions, citing one feature—I switch often between Marantz' custom digital filtering :

 

It does help to have favourites, fine-tuning how we best prefer them to sound. Well, « FIL 2 » has exquisite « analog [well-balanced, smooth sound] » qualities that delivers for my personal needs

 

Since we're all different, with different Hi-Fi system product chains, we essentially have to explore and determine if a product is right by ourselves. As Ken advises...

[徐中銳]

And today, came across again, how they visually chart their 2 Filters :

[NeroMetalliko]

Hello,

this was a player I heavily considered to buy to replace my (died) old DV9500, even if the price was a little bit a stretch.

 

I was inclined to accept the lack of DVD-A reproduction (I have very few) in order to get a good SACD reproduction, but I wanted even the possibility to flexibly use the internal DAC with hi-res files (I hate to regularly replace died mechanical spinners...).

 

After investigations on the manual and after a phone call to the local Marantz tech support for further confirmation, the main drawback for my purposes was the fact that the USB front input (for keys/HDDs) is unacceptably crippled: it allows for reproduction of MP3 and basic 16/44.1 PCM but no hi-res 24/96 or 24/192 PCM (no to say DSD64).

 

This is clearly something they wanted to limit by design and marketing differentiation because all the similar NA series (even the lower ranked 8005) are easily supporting the PCM hi-res files reproduction from USB front port.

 

The bottom line is that to take advantage of the DAC hardware for hi-res file reproduction you can use it only with a PC connected to the back USB port, which is a 100% no-go for my setup and uses.

 

Given the fact that even the good old Ken insisted in the interviews to say that all the enhancements of the SE version were focused exactly for a superior hi-res music reproduction, it's very difficult for me to swallow this limiting decision.

 

So, after some frustrating thoughts, I looked elsewhere, and wasted no more time opting finally for a lower grade but more flexible solution.

 

Just my humble opinion,

ciao.

[CatManDo]

This is clearly something they wanted to limit by design and marketing differentiation because all the similar NA series (even the lower ranked 8005) are easily supporting the PCM hi-res files reproduction from USB front port.

 

I don't think they they crippled the player by design, but that they simply used an old file playback module, the type that was present in DVD players until five years ago. Support MP3, WMA, WAV up to 16/48, from USB (only FAT32) or CD-R (not DVD-R). Typical year 2000s limitations.

 

They should better not have included file playback functions at all.

 

I don't think it's a marketing idea to push people to buy a disc player AND a file player seperately (both with their own DAC), because that way they rather lose sales to other brands.

[NeroMetalliko]

I don't think they they crippled the player by design, but that they simply used an old file playback module, the type that was present in DVD players until five years ago. Support MP3, WMA, WAV up to 16/48, from USB (only FAT32) or CD-R (not DVD-R). Typical year 2000s limitations.

 

They should better not have included file playback functions at all.

 

I don't think it's a marketing idea to push people to buy a disc player AND a file player seperately (both with their own DAC), because that way they rather lose sales to other brands.

 

Yes, as you rightly pointed out it effectively could be simply some "laziness" from their side, but the final results is the same, and more up-to-date pieces of hardware were already developed/available, so I don't see reasonable reasons to do something like that for a product that will be sold in the year 2016 (and not cheap)...

 

That said, I completely agree with you regarding the poor choice to avoid a proper convergence of file playing capability in an expensive disc player with a supposedly decent DAC and analog output stages. So I was really disappointed after discovering it.

At the end of the day they loose a sale in this case due to this questionable decision.

 

Have a nice day,

ciao.

 

Andrea

[徐中銳]

Greetings,

especially Andrea and Claude.

 

It's still early in my New Zealand day, so—firstly, I'll simply quote myself :

Greetings David' date='

a perhaps interesting interlude until I've more time to focus on replying to you at the [b']HD-AMP1 Thread[/b], couple of key insights I've kept in mind from Marantz' White Paper Guide to PC-Audio pdf :

In this document we will mainly focus on the last option on the list, the USB-B connectivity as this is the recommended way for music lovers to enjoy their music in the best quality possible. The player acts as a DAC – Digital to Analogue Converter (in fact it replaces the soundcard of your PC / MAC) and directly converts the digital music signal to analogue domain to hand it over to the amplifier.

 

But first let’s dig a bit more into the different ways of accessing music to get a better understanding and clarify some terminology...

 

TIPS AND TRICKS TO GET THE BEST FROM YOUR USB-DAC

 

1. Select a good USB cable (sound will be strongly influenced by the USB cable; interference & noise).
   
2. USB-Cable: Not longer than 5m, and the quality of shielding will also have some influence on the sound quality. Test several cables to optimise performance. Try adding a Ferrite Core as used on some network cables.
   
3. We strongly recommend you to add a Ferrite Core on your network cable to minimize noise interferences.
   
4. For the PC / Mac an SSD hard disc is preferable – SSD stands for Solid State Disk and has, in comparison to standard hard disc, no rotating elements inside. Another step to reduced interference. Sound will be even smoother and more detailed.
   
5. Use your PC or Mac only for Music listening. Kill all unnecessary running apps. There is no need for a high performance super-fast PC. Standard processor is just fine.
   
6. If you use Spotify streaming service, make sure you set the data rate to 320kps – highest resolution.
   
7. DSD playback. The NA-11S1 supports DSD2.8Mhz (64) and DSD5.6Mhz (128). In case of DSD2.8 playback “DSD2.8224MHz” will be shown. For DSD5.6 it is “DSD>2.8224MHz”, this >means bigger than 2.8.
   

 

As to your emotive speculations, here, incidentally, is a 7min4sec interview filmed by Francesco Bollorino in 2012 titled « simplicity is the essence of hifi » :

[video=youtube;h_-aShUYDEo]

 

Also (perhaps some will say I like getting up to change the volume) :

Because I go minimalist if I can' date=' I'm using their [b']MusicLink SC-23 Pre-amp[/b] that has no remote :

 

 

Need to prepare for to[day], best I retire for [now], write you later

[徐中銳]

Remembering NeroMetalliko interest in USB sticks, how is it nowadays-generally ? Meaning, do most consumer DAC machines synchronise with USB Flash drives' « Cystal oscillator » rather than re-clocking with DACs' own internal...

 

[徐中銳]

Yeah, regarding price-to-performance, from various studies into these Special Edition 14s—they are what Ken wholeheartedly endorses and recommends for music-enthusiasts (who are located to audition [and can afford them]).

 

Another (accented) English interview (with Chinese subtitles) :

[video=youtube;n-iqTAzQ2mo]

 

Of course, it helps if you prefer USB-B connectivity and still spin discs Or if you're looking for a special Integrated Amp or 2

[Sam Lord]

To satisfy those like myself who question your objectivity, I ask that you give an example of a DAC you prefer to Marantz, and briefly explain why. It will help others accept your long Marantz-worshipping posts.

[徐中銳]

SL, I'm not compelled to « satisfy » you nor your ilk.

KI's my friend, I study his work...

 

What you « accept » is your business.

Not quite WHFT' date=' but some of what I'd like to review for, at least, the first 3 weeks of 2016 :

[/font']

 

Monstro quod ipse tibi possis dare, best wishes

[Sam Lord]

SL' date=' I'm not compelled to « satisfy » you nor your ilk.[b']

KI[/b]'s my friend, I study his work...[/url]

What you « accept » is your business.

 

Wilhelm, I'm sorry, I was too harsh. Worship was not a fair word to use in place of friendship. Re. ilk: I'm not important enough or popular enough to have it; I might be the only one with these comments. I have no ill feelings about Marantz.

 

I think they hurt themselves with too many products closely-priced, but that is marketing matter, not a quality problem.

[徐中銳]

Pardon Sam, publicly, I could've replied earlier. But I thought it best to leave it until...

 

Let's say, for me, music is like food. And, basically, we all need to eat ? Ken then (since I don't eat enough meat, same as I don't go to that many concerts) is like my orchardist friend...

 

Returning form my simile, there are problematic issues in how importers order, price and distribute Marantz releases.

 

Of what I've studied, it's within my stride to share what I personally would buy from their current products. And, in short, Ken highly recommends audiophile enthusiasts to audition his tweaked SA-14S1 DAC / Player (plus its partnering amp). As seen in Spain, powering Tannoy Revolution XT8F loudspeakers :

[徐中銳]

Australian readers, your importer QualiFi said earlier, sometime in May :

We can't wait for the arrival of the new Special Edition version of the stereo amplifier PM14S1 next month! Matching SACD player will hit here soon after. Prefer black - or gold?

 

[徐中銳]

At

:

[tapasr_567783583008b]

Not to high jack the thread but does anyone know what brand the equipment rack is being used in the photo above?

[semente]

Are you not interested in simple music?

Actually' date=' I am, I like vocals accompanied by piano. In that respect, I want to recreate the mood and atmosphere of the performance, so that the listener grasps every emotional detail of the performer. As a manufacturer, I want to promote the reality of music using our products to achieve a sound with very low noise and the best signal-to-noise performance possible.[/i']

 

In that case he should take up recording.

Playback equipment will only reproduce what it's being fed...with varying degrees of success depending on the equipment in question.

 

R

[徐中銳]

Quickly of racks and piano-recording ; Ken above was in Madrid... Perhaps an American reader can suggest you a local rack product ? And below is the one in Ken's Eindhoven listening-room :

Recalling from Channel Classics' YouTube uploads, then 10 years old Serena Wang :