Amare Musica Tube DAC DSD – without D/A Converter. Magic? – NO, this is true

[vertigen]

Hi There,

i would like to introduce this magic device, i have a prototype witch is final production version based on the same topology but in replacement chassis. i have this one for tests and i must told this device have most analogue sound that i ever heard in my life, maybe top hi-end turntables with mint vinyls with top cartridges 10k$ on deck like Air Force One will be better, but i have in comparison Air Force Two (not head-to-head) and TechDAS sounds worse for me, i think the mystery is here because this device are not an ordinary dac, it not have ordinary digital to analogue conversion, it rather a delta-sigma demodulation of DSD signal with analogue left and right runs like in an good tape reel-to-reel deck, it have only a low pass filter and tube output and thats all!! (if you feed them a DSD on usb from PC or server) and if you would like to use ANY of known digital domain signal (s/pdif on AES, RCA, BNC etc) it will use AKM chip to change it to DSD, so you can use it like ordinary DAC and you will have pure DSD with DSD signal via usb or PCM or whatever changed to DSD! it's really stunning... World premiere will be on Poland's Audio Video Show in Warsaw on 2015.11.06-08 in Amare Musica room 510 in Sobieski Hotel.

here are some pictures how it will looks like and some technical details:

analouge section:

two ECC88 tubes per channel with stabilized power supply, everything is on dedicated PCB, output XLR and RCA and its a full balanced device.

AKM upsampler chip have Crystek low jitter master clock and best on the market LT stabilizers.

The chassis will be in final production version made on CNC aluminum 10mm, contains Ceramic Disc Tablette feets made by Franc Audio Accessories.

Sold in flight case made especially for this device

The signal from the USB and digital outputs (SPDIF, AES / EBU) PCM goes to the upsampler and "changed" to DSD128

The DSD signal goes directly to the low-pass filter and through tube output to RCA or XLR

[Ben-M]

When will they release the price?

 

Also, isn't this, besides the lack of tubes, the same idea as the PS Audio DirectStream DAC? I don't mean to say it's a copy or anything, just confirming my understanding of its topology.

[vertigen]

Hi Ben-M this is AM own idea, not based on anything i could know. I think (but not heard) the PS Audio will sound far more different, if You want the price contact him at Amare Musica – CONTACT

[bmoura]

When will they release the price?

 

Also, isn't this, besides the lack of tubes, the same idea as the PS Audio DirectStream DAC? I don't mean to say it's a copy or anything, just confirming my understanding of its topology.

 

Sounds like it offers hardware upsampling from PCM to DSD 128 (similar to the Sony HAP-Z1 ES Server and the EMM Labs DACs) and filtered and tube output (similar to the Lampizator DACs).

 

Could be interesting.

[Norton]

Sounds like it offers hardware upsampling from PCM to DSD 128 (similar to the Sony HAP-Z1 ES Server and the EMM Labs DACs) and filtered and tube output (similar to the Lampizator DACs).

 

Could be interesting.

 

Looks like the upsampling/transcoding/filters come courtesy of the AK 4490 chip - same as in TEAC 503 DAC and some Esoteric players.

[vertigen]

Looks like the upsampling/transcoding/filters come courtesy of the AK 4490 chip - same as in TEAC 503 DAC and some Esoteric players.

 

 

inside is this one AK4137EQ | Product | AKM - Asahi Kasei Microdevices

so not Sony and not Teac, this is Amare Musica own development is i told earlier

 

and some night say ''like in lampizator'' wtf? lampizator must teach how to solder i think. he have hum in less than two months from buy....

[Norton]

inside is this one AK4137EQ | Product | AKM - Asahi Kasei Microdevices

so not Sony and not Teac, this is Amare Musica own development is i told earlier

 

and some night say ''like in lampizator'' wtf? lampizator must teach how to solder i think. he have hum in less than two months from buy....

 

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that using a 4490 was a bad thing, but when I followed the above link to http://www.amaremusica.pl/dac/ it states:

 

"Dac AK4490 is a new generation Premium 32-bit 2ch DAC w for each channel"

[vertigen]

as you say AK4490 its a different chip, whatever

[Hiro]

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that using a 4490 was a bad thing, but when I followed the above link to Amare Musica – DAC it states:

 

"Dac AK4490 is a new generation Premium 32-bit 2ch DAC w for each channel"

 

The Amare site also states that the DAC is using a SRC4192 Chip instead of AKM Verita SRC...

 

Maybe the site hasn't been updated to reflect the final version of the device? or it could be an entirely different DAC from the same manufacturer...

[sfox7076]

I applaud that you waited until your third post to insult someone. I am sorry that I find it hard to believe that anyone has a completely independent thought on circuit architecture.

[Hiro]

as you say AK4490 its a different chip, whatever

 

So, is the Amare Tube DSD converter using this DAC chip, or does it rely on a discrete low pass filter?

[bmoura]

lampizator must teach how to solder i think. he have hum in less than two months from buy....

 

I own a Lampizator DSD DAC. No humming problems here. And the music sounds very, very good.

It will be difficult to top.

[Elberoth]

I own a Lampizator DSD DAC. No humming problems here. And the music sounds very, very good.

It will be difficult to top.

 

+2

 

I'm on a third Lampi (DSD -> Big 7 -> Golden Gate), no problems whatsoever.

 

You must be friends with Amare guys (which are great people, BTW) to have an access to a prototype, but you have to understand, that the way you post on forums, really does a disservice to the company.

[matthias]

If I understand correctly this DAC converts PCM to DSD with the AK4137 SRC and in the second step by a first order LPF to analog. DSD64 to DSD512 is directed straight to the LPF.

 

Matt

[marslo]

+2

 

I'm on a third Lampi (DSD -> Big 7 -> Golden Gate), no problems whatsoever.

 

You must be friends with Amare guys (which are great people, BTW) to have an access to a prototype, but you have to understand, that the way you post on forums, really does a disservice to the company.

 

+3, fully agree with Adam with my second Lampi ( B7)

[zerung]

Hate you GG guys.

 

Great to hear about this new DAC. Nothing like tube rolling and the laid back sound of a tubed DAC.

[vertigen]

Adam, i don't want to discredit Lampi, he have great sound too, but ppl across the world reported some issues and 99% of them is from poor internal mounting. if someone feels insulted - sorry.

[kravi4ka]

Adam, i don't want to discredit Lampi, he have great sound too, but ppl across the world reported some issues and 99% of them is from poor internal mounting. if someone feels insulted - sorry.

 

Actually you just did that - tried to discredit Lampizator DAC. To be honest I have never read anything about hum from their devices, ever. I do not like the way it is assembled either but that is a completely different story.

 

Amare might have a great DSD DAC but the last thing on the planet to help its popularity will be you badmouthing the competition, trust me, quite the contrary. Nothing against you and the Amare looks very intersting but you are not doing them a favor by trying to make Lampi look like a bad design.

[tedwoods]

Actually you just did that - tried to discredit Lampizator DAC. To be honest I have never read anything about hum from their devices, ever. I do not like the way it is assembled either but that is a completely different story.

 

Amare might have a great DSD DAC but the last thing on the planet to help its popularity will be you badmouthing the competition, trust me, quite the contrary. Nothing against you and the Amare looks very intersting but you are not doing them a favor by trying to make Lampi look like a bad design.

 

My sentiments exactly!

My former Lampi has been dead quiet and I have never heard of any issues whatsoever.

Quite the contrary actually: I've heard nothing but raves!

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Lampizator has been the first one to use the "no chip" DSD implementation in a commercial DAC, so the Amare is hardly breaking any ground in that field.

Regardless, the Amare looks like an interesting DAC and I would love to hear more about it, especially about its PCM to DSD conversion method and how that fares against the HQP and such, software up-sampling methods for example.

[sfox7076]

My sentiments exactly!

My former Lampi has been dead quiet and I have never heard of any issues whatsoever.

Quite the contrary actually: I've heard nothing but raves!

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Lampizator has been the first one to use the "no chip" DSD implementation in a commercial DAC, so the Amare is hardly breaking any ground in that field.

Regardless, the Amare looks like an interesting DAC and I would love to hear more about it, especially about its PCM to DSD conversion method and how that fares against the HQP and such, software up-sampling methods for example.

 

Agreed on all accounts. I went Meitner MA-1/Chord Hugo --> Big 7 ---> Golden Gate

 

Some people had QC issues. I agree with that, but I think the PCB implementation sorted all of that out. The rendering looks interesting, but until I see the real thing, I will be suspect.

[Elberoth]

IMO Lampi really went a long way with regards to build quality. Łukasz have started as a DIY builder, and his early DACs have shown that. However, their current DACs looks nothing like their earlier products. Thay are very nicely made, quality parts all around. My only remaining gripe is the lack of permanent markings at the back panel, and chaep plastic remote (although I went with Apple remote option, which solved that problem).

 

We will see how the Amare DAC will perform. In my opinion, the strenght of Lampi Big 7 comes not only from the chipless DSD engine, but also from the DHT output tubes, which makes this design even more unique.

 

I would be surprised if more DAC manufacturers didn't follow the chipless DSD engine route in the near future.

[vertigen]

Hi,

i would like to apologize all interested and Mr. Ł. Fikus himself, but i was in state of bliss and i was very excited how new Amare chipless-DSD device sounds, it's really excited experience. it's just blows my mind!! I invite you all, go to Audio Video Show and listen both devices and judge yourself, You should really to listen this one!! , I have just ordered an DHT version from Amare but AFAIK it will not come to me until december 2015 (ordered version is with Emission Labs 1605 tubes) regards.

[Audio_ELF]

Hi There,

i would like to introduce this magic device, i have a prototype witch is final production version based on the same topology but in replacement chassis. i have this one for tests and i must told this device have most analogue sound that i ever heard in my life, maybe top hi-end turntables with mint vinyls with top cartridges 10k$ on deck like Air Force One will be better, but i have in comparison Air Force Two (not head-to-head) and TechDAS sounds worse for me [snip]

Sorry hope I don't come over like forum police here: but given this is your first post and you join to "promote" a new DAC; would you please declare if you have any interest in Amare as anything more than a general customer?

 

Eloise

[HDgeorge]

About what price?

[wisnon]

Adam, i don't want to discredit Lampi, he have great sound too, but ppl across the world reported some issues and 99% of them is from poor internal mounting. if someone feels insulted - sorry.

 

Lemme see, you tout a Lampi DSD knock off, 2 years later and with no DHT tubes??? Tell me again, why should people be interested when the imitation (highest form of flattery) is never the "real" thing? The only thing interesting I see is the built in upsampler, but that will have to battle with the $20K Nagra Dac which sounds GREAT. I spent an evening listening to it. What does the small signal tube Amare cost?

 

Lukasz never rests, so while you may aim for a static target, you actually are dealing with a quicksilver moving target.

 

BTW, I met the Amare guys last year and they seemed like a swell bunch of guys …completely devoid of arrogance.