Sound Galleries Music Server

[EuroDriver]

...fair on the pricing? 16000 € for an Music Server with a 330 € cpu is an no go criteria for me. I don't think the evaluation costs are so high that the price of 16000 € is ok. I don't think that the price difference between a self build music server and the SGM is equal to the better sound you get.

 

Best regards

 

wolft

 

 

Hi Wolft,

 

Thank you for posting, as I am sure that there are others who might have similar concerns

 

I would like to take the opportunity to give some of the background why the server costs what it does. Successful heavy computation for an audio application to sound good needs three things, control and suppression of RFI, dissipating about 50 watts heat from the CPU and maintains stable core temperatures, and improving the clock timing of the computation as much as possible.

 

- The mother board power supply is a big and heavy affair with 660,000 farrads of Mundorf Audio grade capacitors, over specified Cree Shottky rectifiers and 2 chokes which weigh over 3.5 Kgs each. The ripple from this arrangement is in the micro volts, not milli volts. When we started this project, we had a very nice mosfet regulated power supply that sounded great with a i7 4970. However as we upgraded to a Skylake, we were no longer able to get the mosfet supply to perform reliably with the power draw spikes of the i7 6700 K, and we had to start from scratch with a different PS concept. We decided to try out an old analog amp practice, a choke power supply design in a similar vein to Uptones JS-2 design, which we knew had great results powering Mac Mini's. We tried bigger chokes and more caps, and the sound got better and better. The last interation had a bill of materials increase of 300 euros, but the sound stage depth was way way deeper. What were we to do, keep the cost down or increase the price and deliver a soundstage with added realism ?

 

On the cooling side, the arrival of the T+A DAC 8 DSD doing DSD512, dramatically increased the computation and wattage of the CPU. The only fan less way to cool the CPU was to custom machine finned heat sinks from solid copper billet, very heavy and expensive, but cools very well. The cooler block we use on top of the CPU, is the same cooler block that is used in a German army battle tank, but we had to modify it so that we have individually adjustable pressure pads, again custom machined

 

on the SSD, it took us 4 months to find a power supply that sounded better than a Li-Po battery, and we commisisioned a supplier in Sweden to do a custom power supply with a very high frequency bandwith

 

to improve the timing, we removed the mobo clock and replaced it with first a TCXO, then 50 ppb, and then 5 ppb OCXO's. The 5 ppb OCXO easily sounded the best

 

and so it goes on

[hifial]

Class D output stage has only two states high and low or "1" and "0"

 

This is digital . The following LC lowpass filter filters it and the average value is analog just like in a DSD DAC.

 

Sorry but Class D is analog. I am not going to debate.

[Dev]

The Chassis looks very nice, elegant and professional. Great job.

 

At such high retail price, how does it compare to an Aurender W20 ?

[One and a half]

For export out of the EU, what would the price be if the port of discharge is Frankfurt?

 

Could you also advise the shipping weight, thanks.

[audio.bill]

Sorry but Class D is analog. I am not going to debate.

Al - Technically you are correct in that Class D amplification is performed on the signal remaining in the analog domain without conversion to digital. It does however generate its output using high speed switching of its output devices, which PhisonAudio was referring to in that it only has two states of '1' or '0' which are then low pass filtered to smooth and recover the desired analog signal. I would also respectfully mention that PhisonAudio is a very highly experienced designer of digital and analog electronics who knows very well what he speaks of.

[One and a half]

Sorry but Class D is analog. I am not going to debate.

 

Agreed. If the output was truly 1 and 0, the peak voltages occurring when switching at some 30V++ even in uS, would cause irreparable damage to the speaker. Anyway all digital transmissions use a voltage, ergo are naturally analog.

[zerung]

The price is very high!

Taking into consideration your development cost, parts and profit, looks about right. I am particularly impressed with your Linear Power Supply.

 

Could it be possible for you to sell the various modules for people who want a cheaper solution. I would buy your lpsu for sure......

[EuroDriver]

The Chassis looks very nice, elegant and professional. Great job.

 

At such high retail price, how does it compare to an Aurender W20 ?

 

The W20 is one of the best, if not the best low power, small RF foot print ,bit perfect delivery server out there.

 

IMHO it's forte is delivery a very high quality SPDIF output, very RF clean, and a very stable clock. The Aurenda has a OCXO built in from the same supplier as one of the two that we have extensively tested.

 

The software player that comes with the Aurenda, and the only one that the W20 works with is based on the open source Linux MPD Player. Aurenda have done a commendable job of library management and developing tablet apps that work with their MPD player.

 

The digital music delivery of the SGM 2015 is completely different. The SGM has been designed, engineered, and built to employ computational intensive algorithms to convert all digital formats to DSD512. The reason why we have built this server is to provide the best computing platform for HQ Player to do its magic converting Red book lead into DSD512 Gold.

 

This weekend has been a highlight of our digital audio journey, we had the chance to spend quality time with Jussi Laako. There are some things I have learned that I want to share with forum friends and put on the record

 

Jussi Laako spent 7 years in the Finnish Navy. Part of Jussi's job was training sonar operators, an intensive 6 months after which the operators had any amazing ability to identify the sounds of different ships and submarines passing by. How many audiophiles have undergone 6 months of 5 days a week listening training LoL ?

 

Jussi's other job was to write new computational algorithms for processing sonar returns. Every couple of weeks Jussi would have a new version to test, HQ Player users, does this sound familiar ?

 

Then Jussi went on to work for Nokia. All cellphones use 1-bit sigma delta modulation. There are no PCM speach phones, have not been for decades !

 

Now Jussi works for Intel in Finland, I wonder why Intel has a R&D facility in Finland :-)

 

Let me share with you, some computional bits with you. All of the processing stages have an output in 64 bit floating point format. To maintain the precision of the out put of some stages, Jussi actually inputs 80 bit floating point data, so that the output will have 64 bit precision. To do the 80 bit manipulations, Jussi has had to write his own assembler code. There are no compilers available in the public domain to handle 80 bit floating point.

 

HQ Player's processing of PCM and other formats is totally another world from the small footprint, bit perfect MPD world inhabited by Aurenda and Antipodes.

 

On the user interface front end, the SGM has as it's default software Roon 1.2. Roon absolutely is the busiest piece of media management software out there, which requires a heft amount of CPU power but comes with its RFI baggage as well. There is a reason why Aurenda have decided not to support Roon, and I can fully understand Aurenda's decision at this time.

 

By contrast, the SGM's sledge hammer approach to audiophile computing allows the running of both Roon and HQ Player at DSD512 in the same box. Not an easy task, just ask Lukaz of Lampizator who was taking pictures of the CNC machined copper heatsinks, on Friday night after dinner :-)

 

enough for now, have to jump in the shower to make it for breakfast with the Roon guys !

[hifial]

Hey Ed. Tell Eno and Rob I said hi.

[Distinctive]

Will the SGM ever host an I2s (LVDS, HDMI type) output?

[matthias]

The digital music delivery of the SGM 2015 is completely different. The SGM has been designed, engineered, and built to employ computational intensive algorithms to convert all digital formats to DSD512. The reason why we have built this server is to provide the best computing platform for HQ Player to do its magic converting Red book lead into DSD512 Gold.

 

The source-first-principle works in the digital domain like in the analogue domain. So all the efforts the SGM team put into this server will pay off in the future.

 

I visited all rooms of the Hifideluxe and nearly all rooms in the three Atria of the HighEnd. The experience of the DSD512 Fest at Friday evening easily surpassed most if not all other demonstrations of the show. It was musically involving like the playback of good reel-to-reel tapes in a well set-up system.

 

Thank you Geoffrey, Edward and the SGM team for your great hospitality.

 

Matt and Claudia

[kravi4ka]

Is that a DAC 8 DSD on the pictures? Kind of blurry and I was wondering if it is still the one for DSD512?

[hifial]

Is that a DAC 8 DSD on the pictures? Kind of blurry and I was wondering if it is still the one for DSD512?

 

Yes and yes

[joelha]

I have give a quick report on the Friday event.

 

While I couldn't stay for the evening event, I was able to spend about 2-1/2 hours or so at the public event.

 

Why did I stay so long? Simple. I didn't want to leave. In short, the sound was that good, the people were that friendly, and the information being dispensed was that compelling.

 

Geoffrey and Edward were hospitable, patient with all of my questions, and happy to accommodate any request.

 

But I would say it was the sound quality and the reasonably priced front-end (in comparison to a system which could produce comparable sound) that impressed me the most.

 

And while they of course the hope is to sell product, this event was a gift to anyone who attended.

 

So for the gift of that afternoon, thanks very much to Geoffrey and Edward.

 

Their program was the highlight of the show for me.

 

Joel

[EuroDriver]

So for the gift of that afternoon, thanks very much to Geoffrey and Edward.

 

Hi Joel,

 

It's us that have to thank you for the time that you spent with us, your observations, reactions and questions were very valuable external and independant data points.

 

Developing well performing audio equipment is particularly difficult as each one of us hears diffferently and we become trained to listen to a certain type of presentation, and our perceptions can become skewed. Also we often listen to the same tracks over and over again as we are trying to detect small differences. Having some one like you gives us a very much needed reality check !

[bibo01]

Hi Edward,

 

Perhaps you could make clear what kind of assistance and upgrade path for both hardware and software you provide for the SGM 2015.

I think they are important points for a server of this nature.

All the best

[Rexp]

I have give a quick report on the Friday event.

 

 

But I would say it was the sound quality and the reasonably priced front-end (in comparison to a system which could produce comparable sound) that impressed me the most.

 

 

 

Joel

What was the reasonably priced front end? TIA!

[joelha]

What was the reasonably priced front end? TIA!

 

You only quoted part of what I had said. I qualified my comment based on systems at the show which could match the sound quality of this one.

 

At the show, there were systems with single components which equaled or exceeded the cost of the entire front end of this system. And I don't think they sounded as good.

 

Joel

[Rexp]

You only quoted part of what I had said. I qualified my comment based on systems at the show which could match the sound quality of this one.

 

At the show, there were systems with single components which equaled or exceeded the cost of the entire front end of this system. And I don't think they sounded as good.

 

Joel

Got it, thanks

[EuroDriver]

For export out of the EU, what would the price be if the port of discharge is Frankfurt?

 

Could you also advise the shipping weight, thanks.

 

The prices are not including shipping. The weight of the SGM is around 28 Kgs, but we need to put it on a scale. We are working on the various packaging options, and weights.

[EuroDriver]

Will the SGM ever host an I2s (LVDS, HDMI type) output?

 

If a reasonably priced PCM or DSD DAC with I2S input emerges that takes the sound quality crown away from the DAC 8 DSD, then it would not take us long to put in one of the best performing I2S input cards.

 

Our good friends and OCXO clock board supplier, Pink Faun, are on the leading edge of I2S. The latest Pink Faun I2S board has an OCXO as well, a spin off from the work that Pink Faun did for us :-)

[EuroDriver]

Hi Edward,

 

Perhaps you could make clear what kind of assistance and upgrade path for both hardware and software you provide for the SGM 2015.

I think they are important points for a server of this nature.

All the best

 

Hi Gianlucca,

 

You are absolutely right about this and it's something we have thought long and hard about. The Sound Galleries customer service commitment has three main components

 

- online support via customers choice of Teamviewer, or VNC from 9 am to 11 pm European time by appointment. We can't promise but we would try to be on the case within 24 hours

 

- 24 months warranty on parts and labor

 

- upgrade commitment. During the first 3 years of ownership, A customer can have his SGM upgraded on site at a fixed fee + parts cost with the following price list for different areas of the world

 

- Europe Euro 1,500 + VAT

 

- North America USD 2,000

 

- Asia USD 3,000

 

A SGM owner can be confident that his music server we stay on the cutting edge of digital audio for quite a few years to come :-)

[tranz]

If a reasonably priced PCM or DSD DAC with I2S input emerges that takes the sound quality crown away from the DAC 8 DSD, then it would not take us long to put in one of the best performing I2S input cards.

 

Our good friends and OCXO clock board supplier, Pink Faun, are on the leading edge of I2S. The latest Pink Faun I2S board has an OCXO as well, a spin off from the work that Pink Faun did for us :-)

 

Hi Eurodriver,

 

Would the ABC PCB company in Switzerland be able to do this?

 

home - Electronic, Engineering and Consulting

[Nikhil]

The digital music delivery of the SGM 2015 is completely different. The SGM has been designed, engineered, and built to employ computational intensive algorithms to convert all digital formats to DSD512. The reason why we have built this server is to provide the best computing platform for HQ Player to do its magic converting Red book lead into DSD512 Gold.

 

Congratulations Eduard, Geoffrey and team! Stunning work on the SGM Server.

This is absolutely cutting edge stuff ... fascinating.

 

 

 

This weekend has been a highlight of our digital audio journey, we had the chance to spend quality time with Jussi Laako. There are some things I have learned that I want to share with forum friends and put on the record

 

Jussi Laako spent 7 years in the Finnish Navy. Part of Jussi's job was training sonar operators, an intensive 6 months after which the operators had any amazing ability to identify the sounds of different ships and submarines passing by. How many audiophiles have undergone 6 months of 5 days a week listening training LoL ?

 

Jussi's other job was to write new computational algorithms for processing sonar returns. Every couple of weeks Jussi would have a new version to test, HQ Player users, does this sound familiar ?

 

Then Jussi went on to work for Nokia. All cellphones use 1-bit sigma delta modulation. There are no PCM speach phones, have not been for decades !

 

Now Jussi works for Intel in Finland, I wonder why Intel has a R&D facility in Finland :-)

 

Let me share with you, some computional bits with you. All of the processing stages have an output in 64 bit floating point format. To maintain the precision of the out put of some stages, Jussi actually inputs 80 bit floating point data, so that the output will have 64 bit precision. To do the 80 bit manipulations, Jussi has had to write his own assembler code. There are no compilers available in the public domain to handle 80 bit floating point.

 

HQ Player's processing of PCM and other formats is totally another world from the small footprint, bit perfect MPD world inhabited by Aurenda and Antipodes.

 

 

Thanks for sharing this interesting info on Jussi. There must be something in the water up there - so much talent, knowledge, technology, etc.

[MikeJazz]

Our good friends and OCXO clock board supplier, Pink Faun, are on the leading edge of I2S. The latest Pink Faun I2S board has an OCXO as well, a spin off from the work that Pink Faun did for us :-)

 

They could pack this with the DSD Dac project from Jussi...that would be Faun, I mean, fun...