Inexpensive Vinyl ripping - help?

[DaQi]

Just pulled the trigger and purchased a new turntable (PRO-JECT - DEBUT III TURNTABLE ) to rip my vinyl. I am looking for recommendations on the rest of the recording chain and want to keep it relatively inexpensive. I see that there are couple options and am wondering on the collective wisdom here on what is worthwhile and what makes sense to do this relatively inexpensively.

 

1) Connect the TT to my amplifier that already has a phono input and then take that input directly into the mic-in on my laptop and capture it with Audacity. Additional cost: $0. Quality: I know this isn't the best but will it be good enough.

 

2) Buy an ADC (which one) and connect the TT to that. Will I need a phono pre-amp or can an ADC deal with that? Record from the ADC into Audacity on my laptop. Additional cost: $? - the price of an ADC. Quality: should be better than option 1 but how much better and is it worth the cost of the ADC.

 

3) Buy a digital recorder (which one) and connect the TT to that. Record directly to the digital recorder. Then use Audacity to clean up the files. Additional cost: $? - the price of a digital recorder which I expect may be more than the ADC. Quality: Should be comparable to option 2 and may be better depending on what ADC and/or recorder I get.

 

4) Any of the above options with some purchased software for recording to vinyl. Not sure about the advantage compared to Audacity for the price.

 

Welcome any and all suggestions on this.

 

I am not looking for the most amazing quality but would like to get something reasonably enough. It has been 25 years since I pulled out and played any of my vinyl so I don't even recall what shape they are in.

[Audio_ELF]

Have you read ... Computer Audiophile - Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl to Digital Files Using Macintosh and/or Computer Audiophile - Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl To Digital Files Using Windows

 

Given the cost of your turntable, the Impact Twin mentioned in the Mac version of the guide makes sense. Alternative ADC would include Focusrite Sapphire or something from Apogee Digital.

[Audio_ELF]

Have you read ... Computer Audiophile - Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl to Digital Files Using Macintosh and/or Computer Audiophile - Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl To Digital Files Using Windows

 

Given the cost of your turntable, the Impact Twin mentioned in the Mac version of the guide makes sense. Alternative ADC would include Focusrite Sapphire or something from Apogee Digital or RME.

 

With older vinyl you'll also find cleaning it to be beneficial. As a budget option I've used a http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knosti-Disco-Static-Record-Cleaning/dp/B00793YMKK

[Jabs1542]

Just pulled the trigger and purchased a new turntable (PRO-JECT - DEBUT III TURNTABLE ) to rip my vinyl. I am looking for recommendations on the rest of the recording chain and want to keep it relatively inexpensive. I see that there are couple options and am wondering on the collective wisdom here on what is worthwhile and what makes sense to do this relatively inexpensively.

 

Congrats on on the table - nice table, what cartridge are you using?

 

1) Connect the TT to my amplifier that already has a phono input and then take that input directly into the mic-in on my laptop and capture it with Audacity. Additional cost: $0. Quality: I know this isn't the best but will it be good enough.

 

First, I assume you are taking the Tape Out and routing that to your laptop, this allows you to use the phono section of you amp. Second - I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU TRY THIS FIRST, it's cheap and may be just the ticket. A lot depends on the laptop (some are cleaner than others) and the output quality you seek. Note to DISENGAGE WIFI on the laptop prior to recording, there is a good chance that the wifi radio will cause interference when it decides to talk to the network (don't ask how I know this ). Third - you may want to check out VinylStudio, it is free and it's made for ripping vinyl (track separation, tagging, etc.).

 

2) Buy an ADC (which one) and connect the TT to that. Will I need a phono pre-amp or can an ADC deal with that? Record from the ADC into Audacity on my laptop. Additional cost: $? - the price of an ADC. Quality: should be better than option 1 but how much better and is it worth the cost of the ADC.

 

Once again, I assume you would be using the Tape Out on your amp, thus using the phono stage on the amp itself and not needing to worry about RIAA or any additional phono-pre duties. Price is hard here, I tried a couple of cheap solutions (little RCA to USB conversion boxes) under $200. They took care of the noise I was getting from my laptop but the sonics were gone, it's as if everything was hushed down to a lull and the music had no life in it. Note: my laptop was noisy, a Dell with a 17" screen so I wasn't forunate enough to go the laptop route. However a friend of mine was, he uses a small Acer laptop and it's clean enough for his needs - YMMV.

 

3) Buy a digital recorder (which one) and connect the TT to that. Record directly to the digital recorder. Then use Audacity to clean up the files. Additional cost: $? - the price of a digital recorder which I expect may be more than the ADC. Quality: Should be comparable to option 2 and may be better depending on what ADC and/or recorder I get.

 

While I do not have direct experience with a seperate recorder a friend of mine brought over his Tascam DA-3000 yesterday (Sat). He records through the tape out of his pre-amp so that he can use his existing phono stage (similar to the setup I mentioned above). The difference is that he records to the device, and then transfers it to his computer. The big plus with the DA-3000 is that it does DSD128 as well as PCM 24:192. The big minus, particularly when recording to DSD, is that track separation is a PITA (he doesn't do itrack separation at all, his albums are recorded as one contiguous side of a disk, no individual tracks). I see this unit at Sweetwater for $1000.

 

4) Any of the above options with some purchased software for recording to vinyl. Not sure about the advantage compared to Audacity for the price.

 

VinylStudio for ripping (free), Izotope RX4 for cleanup (this may be a little pricey, it sells for $350).

 

Welcome any and all suggestions on this.

 

I am not looking for the most amazing quality but would like to get something reasonably enough. It has been 25 years since I pulled out and played any of my vinyl so I don't even recall what shape they are in.

[ElviaCaprice]

#2 M2tech Joplin ADC, RCA input, usb 2.0 Output to PC. Does up to 384, 32 bit native. Might find one for $1500 on secondary market. Has several options for RIAA curves, thus you would hook your TT directly into it via RCA.

[DaQi]

@audio_ELF

 

Thanks for referring to the two articles here. I have read them and they are very helpful. The articles focused more on the software side of things. I am not going to be spending the money to get a Lynx Hilo. I am thinking more in the couple hundred dollars range instead of couple thousands to do this. I will look into your other recommendations for ADCs. I am wondering how much difference they will really make versus just running the tape out from my amplifier into my laptop.

 

I was planning to spend a bit of money in getting a good record brush/cleaner. My vinyl has been stored for about 20 years and I did take care of my records so I am hoping they aren't too bad.

 

@Jabs1542 I am using the cartridge it comes with I think it is an Ortofon OM-5e. Thanks for the tip on the WiFi. Luckily, at home I usually run wired so the Wifi would be off but I will make sure to check this. Also thanks for the tip on Vinyl Studio I will check that out. I was not planning to record to DSD for the very reason of having to process/split files later being a pain. I was planning to go to 96/24 which from what I can tell will comfortably capture all that is there. The DA-3000 is a bit rich for where I wanted to be but it does look like a sweet piece of equipment. My project here is to rip about 100 albums and then be done so I want to have a minimal investment to get a reasonable rip. Trying to ascertain where best to spend my money.

 

@ElviaCaprice Thanks for the suggestion. This is a bit more than I want to spend on this project. If you have one I could borrow for a couple months.

[Guidof]

I use a simple and inexpensive (<$80) ART USB Phono Plus ADC. The TT output is plugged into the ART. The output of the ART is plugged into my PC USB input. That's it.

 

Albums are digitized and de-clicked via Vinyl Studio, which allows you to choose resolution. I ordinarily digitize at either 24/96 or 24/192, probably overkill anyway, but peace of mind vis a vis future obsolescence.

 

SQ is virtually indistinguishable from the original in my system, even when a record is played through a Conrad Johnson Motif as a phono preamp.

 

Regards,

 

Guido F.

[DaQi]

I use a simple and inexpensive (<$80) ART USB Phono Plus ADC. The TT output is plugged into the ART. The output of the ART is plugged into my PC USB input. That's it.

 

Albums are digitized and de-clicked via Vinyl Studio, which allows you to choose resolution. I ordinarily digitize at either 24/96 or 24/192, probably overkill anyway, but peace of mind vis a vis future obsolescence.

 

SQ is virtually indistinguishable from the original in my system, even when a record is played through a Conrad Johnson Motif as a phono preamp.

 

Regards,

 

Guido F.

 

Sounds like the deal. Thanks for the recommendation. Looking at the specifications for this is only 16 bit and 44.1 or 48khz for the conversion. If you are putting things in any higher bit buckets you are just adding zeros. As you point out though the sound is fine.

[dtc]

Congrats on on the table - nice table, what cartridge are you using?

 

 

VinylStudio for ripping (free), Izotope RX4 for cleanup (this may be a little pricey, it sells for $350).

 

 

 

+1 for Vinyl Studio. I find it much easier to use than Audacity plus it will do track lookup for albums. Its lookup is not perfect, but it finds a large percentage of albums. That is a big plus when digitizing lots of albums. It is a great piece of software and way under-priced at $29. Great support also. I have not used Izoptope (people who use it like it) but the cleanup features in Vinyl Studio are really quite good. It does hiss and hum removal, as well as automated click and pop removal, as well as a manual click removal process. It will find track breaks automatically, although this is never 100% accurate, especially for classical music. Don't let the price fool you, it is a real piece of software and one of the few to handle DSD formats. Free trial available.

 

I briefly experimented with analog in to a computer, but found there was too much noise without a specialized card. I went with a Korg MS-2000 A to D, no longer produced and probably out of your price range. The unit of choice these days seems to be the Tascam-DA 3000, although it is still $1,000. A handheld recorder, like the Korg MR2, is also an option. You can get less expensive hand held units from Tascam (e.g. DR-44WL) and others, but they typically only go up to 96/24. I would recommend 96/24 as a minimum, although may people are happy with 44/16. I like a unit that records to a drive or card for latter transfer to the computer. It takes the USB timing and noise out of the picture. You can also work on the computer separately while an album is being recorded.

 

Most A to D recorders do not have a phono pre-amp, so using the monitor out on a pre-amp/map is often the best way to go, especially for MC cartridges. However, Vinyl Studio and other software come with RIAA equalization routines these days, so if you have enough signal you do not need to worry about RIAA equalization in hardware. You Project probably is MM so you may be OK without a phono pre-amp.

 

That said, I would experiment with the analog in to your computer, assuming it does D to A conversion, using Vinyl Studio. It will give you an idea of quality and work flow.

[gmgraves]

Just pulled the trigger and purchased a new turntable (PRO-JECT - DEBUT III TURNTABLE ) to rip my vinyl. I am looking for recommendations on the rest of the recording chain and want to keep it relatively inexpensive. I see that there are couple options and am wondering on the collective wisdom here on what is worthwhile and what makes sense to do this relatively inexpensively.

 

1) Connect the TT to my amplifier that already has a phono input and then take that input directly into the mic-in on my laptop and capture it with Audacity. Additional cost: $0. Quality: I know this isn't the best but will it be good enough.

 

2) Buy an ADC (which one) and connect the TT to that. Will I need a phono pre-amp or can an ADC deal with that? Record from the ADC into Audacity on my laptop. Additional cost: $? - the price of an ADC. Quality: should be better than option 1 but how much better and is it worth the cost of the ADC.

 

3) Buy a digital recorder (which one) and connect the TT to that. Record directly to the digital recorder. Then use Audacity to clean up the files. Additional cost: $? - the price of a digital recorder which I expect may be more than the ADC. Quality: Should be comparable to option 2 and may be better depending on what ADC and/or recorder I get.

 

4) Any of the above options with some purchased software for recording to vinyl. Not sure about the advantage compared to Audacity for the price.

 

Welcome any and all suggestions on this.

 

I am not looking for the most amazing quality but would like to get something reasonably enough. It has been 25 years since I pulled out and played any of my vinyl so I don't even recall what shape they are in.

 

 

It looks like what you need is this puppy:

 

Behringer U-Control UCA202 | Sweetwater.com

 

or, If you also need an RIAA phono preamp along with the computer interface:

 

Behringer U-Phono UFO202 | Sweetwater.com

 

Either for US$30

 

I've had a UCA-202 for years and have used it for several projects. It sounds fine. Don't know about the UFO202's phono section, but the ADA part's the same as in the UCA202. If you already have a decent phono preamp, Then forget the UFO202. At any rate, you can hardly go wrong for $30 and these do make the transfer process quick, easy and painless.

[Jabs1542]

That said, I would experiment with the analog in to your computer, assuming it does D to A conversion, using Vinyl Studio. It will give you an idea of quality and work flow.

 

Not to be playing tag-team but workflow is very important. When you buy business software, do you change your business processes to meet the software or do you search for the software that meets your business needs? This is the exact same as the workflow issue, it will help you decide what you need and help you set your priorities if you need several things. As mentioned by several, use Audacity if you like, or check out VinylStudio, and play with your laptop for a while. I recorded close to 10 albums on my laptop before I figured how I wanted my workflow to operate. Then I critiqued those recordings (which is time consuming on its own) to figure out what products I needed to bring to the process. After that I knew what I wanted and what to look for. It's taken a while for all of this to come together but it's worth it because you really only want to record those albums once. Final tip - take your time. Clean the vinyl, search for the loudest passage and set your inputs, record, break down your tracks, perform your tagging, clean up the sound if you need to, and then post to your music sever. If all goes well I can get one album completely done in about 90 minutes, and I can only stand to do a few a day before I start getting sloppy.

[dtc]

It looks like what you need is this puppy:

 

Behringer U-Control UCA202 | Sweetwater.com

 

or, If you also need an RIAA phono preamp along with the computer interface:

 

Behringer U-Phono UFO202 | Sweetwater.com

 

Either for US$30

 

I've had a UCA-202 for years and have used it for several projects. It sounds fine. Don't know about the UFO202's phono section, but the ADA part's the same as in the UCA202. If you already have a decent phono preamp, Then forget the UFO202. At any rate, you can hardly go wrong for $30 and these do make the transfer process quick, easy and painless.

 

This Behringer only does 48 KHz, but Sweetwater's has many A/D USB interfaces that go to 96 and 192, starting at $100. As I said above, I prefer to go directly to disk, but the price is higher for those units. Behringer, Tascam, Focusrite and M-Audio are all good names. Most of these are pro oriented, so you will need RCA to XLR converters/cables.

 

USB Audio Interfaces | Sweetwater.com

 

Whether or not you hear a difference between 44/48 KHz and 96/192 depends a lot on your system. I hear a big difference between 44 and 96 and less of a difference going from 96 to 192.

[gmgraves]

This Behringer only does 48 KHz, but Sweetwater's has many A/D USB interfaces that go to 96 and 192, starting at $100. As I said above, I prefer to go directly to disk, but the price is higher for those units. Behringer, Tascam, Focusrite and M-Audio are all good names. Most of these are pro oriented, so you will need RCA to XLR converters/cables.

 

USB Audio Interfaces | Sweetwater.com

 

Whether or not you hear a difference between 44/48 KHz and 96/192 depends a lot on your system. I hear a big difference between 44 and 96 and less of a difference going from 96 to 192.

 

 

The OP's original request:

 

"I am not looking for the most amazing quality but would like to get something reasonably enough."

 

and the OP's thread title:

 

[h=2]Inexpensive Vinyl ripping - help?[/h]

Both of these tell me that he's looking for cheap and reasonable SQ. The Behringer products more than satisfy both of those requirements. And the UCA-202 makes nice sounding transfers for practically free.

[dtc]

The OP's original request:

 

"I am not looking for the most amazing quality but would like to get something reasonably enough."

 

and the OP's thread title:

 

[h=2]Inexpensive Vinyl ripping - help?[/h]

Both of these tell me that he's looking for cheap and reasonable SQ. The Behringer products more than satisfy both of those requirements. And the UCA-202 makes nice sounding transfers for practically free.

 

 

The OP asked about both A/Ds and recorders. He has a DAC that can handle higher sample rates, so he might be interested in recording at those rates. The 202 may be a good option if he is only interested in 48 KHz. I just provided him with some other options.

[gmgraves]

The OP asked about both A/Ds and recorders. He has a DAC that can handle higher sample rates, so he might be interested in recording at those rates. The 202 may be a good option if he is only interested in 48 KHz. I just provided him with some other options.

 

 

Sure. We really don't know what his requirements are beyond what he asked. Since he's new to this, he's probably not 100% sure what he needs or even wants, so giving him as many practical solutions as possible is just being a a good audio neighbor. But since few LPs have much on them above 15 KHz, I suspect that 48 KHz is a high-enough sample rate. 24-bits rather than 16 would be an improvement though, so kudos on your suggestions.

 

But our OP should keep in mind that the higher the sample rate, the larger the resulting digital file and the more storage it will require per LP. But that's up to him to decide. All we can do is give him the technical dope.

[dtc]

 

...

 

But since few LPs have much on them above 15 KHz, I suspect that 48 KHz is a high-enough sample rate. 24-bits rather than 16 would be an improvement though, so kudos on your suggestions.

 

 

I hear enough difference between 44.1 KHz and 96KHz that I am more than willing to use the disk space. In fact, I digitize at 192 KHz. But, it really depends on your system, your ears and your goals.

[gmgraves]

I hear enough difference between 44.1 KHz and 96KHz that I am more than willing to use the disk space. In fact, I digitize at 192 KHz. But, it really depends on your system, your ears and your goals.

 

 

I do too on digital source material and live microphone feeds but that's mostly the difference between 24 and 16-bit rather than the sampling frequency per se. The higher sampling rates move the Nyquist frequency farther out of the passband, and that's what the "experts" say we are hearing rather than the extended frequency response afforded by the higher sampling rate. But I agree that every improvement helps.

[Guidof]

Sounds like the deal. Thanks for the recommendation. Looking at the specifications for this is only 16 bit and 44.1 or 48khz for the conversion. If you are putting things in any higher bit buckets you are just adding zeros. As you point out though the sound is fine.

 

Yes, that's true; 16/48 is the max A/D or D/A spec for this hardware.

[dtc]

I do too on digital source material and live microphone feeds but that's mostly the difference between 24 and 16-bit rather than the sampling frequency per se. The higher sampling rates move the Nyquist frequency farther out of the passband, and that's what the "experts" say we are hearing rather than the extended frequency response afforded by the higher sampling rate. But I agree that every improvement helps.

 

Yes, the idea is that higher sampling rate moves the ripple effect of the 24 KHz brick wall filter out of the audio band. Not everyone believes that. I just know that 96 KHz sounds better. And, my wife is adamant about that, so it must be true There is also a slight improvement in going to 192 KHz sampling, which makes little sense to me. But, hearing it is enough for me, and disk space is cheap.

 

With the 192 KHz sampling, my music digitized from vinyl is virtually indistinguishable from the original vinyl. Of course, that depends on the A/D converter and the DAC used.

[PewterTA]

I've been reading through a lot of vinyl ripping forums and threads and all over the placed.

 

I've ended up settling (and having to wait for) the RME Babyface Pro that will be out next month. It's a 24/192K ADC and from any reviews that you can find, it's an amazing ADC for the price it sits at. So for me, with the ease of use, the software that it comes with...this will be my choice for ripping vinyl.

[Jabs1542]

I've been reading through a lot of vinyl ripping forums and threads and all over the placed.

 

I've ended up settling (and having to wait for) the RME Babyface Pro that will be out next month. It's a 24/192K ADC and from any reviews that you can find, it's an amazing ADC for the price it sits at. So for me, with the ease of use, the software that it comes with...this will be my choice for ripping vinyl.

 

Tough call, not cheap at $750. It's portable, which could be a plus if you need that, but it powers itself over the USB connection - which means power will probably come from your PC (unless you get a breakout cable and power it separately).

 

The Tascam DA-3000 is not portable, but then it has its own power supply, and does DSD up to 128, but costs a little more at $1,000.

 

Tough call...

[gmgraves]

Yes, the idea is that higher sampling rate moves the ripple effect of the 24 KHz brick wall filter out of the audio band. Not everyone believes that. I just know that 96 KHz sounds better. And, my wife is adamant about that, so it must be true There is also a slight improvement in going to 192 KHz sampling, which makes little sense to me. But, hearing it is enough for me, and disk space is cheap.

 

I don't think there's any doubt that higher sampling rates move the ripple effect of the 24 KHz brick-wall filter out of the audio passband, what is controversial is whether or not that results in improved SQ. I happen to believe that it does.

 

With the 192 KHz sampling, my music digitized from vinyl is virtually indistinguishable from the original vinyl. Of course, that depends on the A/D converter and the DAC used.

 

There are so many variables here, I would think that it would be hard to pin-down exactly where the improvement in SQ appears.

[dtc]

I don't think there's any doubt that higher sampling rates move the ripple effect of the 24 KHz brick-wall filter out of the audio passband, what is controversial is whether or not that results in improved SQ. I happen to believe that it does.

 

 

Agreed. I was careless with the wording of my comment.

[DaQi]

Wow, great information from everyone - a big thanks! Now I have to sort through it a bit and figure out what is right for me.

 

I just got the turntable set up and randomly grabbed an LP from the stack and put it on. Been over 25 years since I have done a needle drop and damn forgot how good it does sound considering how it all works. Grabbed Bob Marley and the Wailers - Rastaman Vibration. Hadn't planned to but sat down and gave the whole side a listen.

 

Next step is to try recording direct to a computer. I do like the idea of a stand-alone recorder because that means I can put it on and let it rip without tying up my computer. I was looking at the focusrite Scarlett 2i2 as a possible solution. Seems to have a reasonable price, good quality and will go up to 96/24 which I am thinking is the sweet spot for doing the recording. I do like that Tascam DS-3000 though and am thinking of some options on that. Could I rent one for a month? Buy one and then sell it. Anyone interested in splitting on one? If I get myself enthused about doing this I could power through it in a month or two and then sell the recorded as slightly used.

 

I see two steps in this whole process. The first is the capture and ensuring I have good captures and then the second seems to be in the processing (splitting tracks, tagging, cleaning up pop, hiss, etc.).

 

Lots to think about and go over. Very first step is to get a good record brush so that I can get my albums as clean as possible going in.

[flatmap]

Wow, great information from everyone - a big thanks! Now I have to sort through it a bit and figure out what is right for me.

 

I just got the turntable set up and randomly grabbed an LP from the stack and put it on. Been over 25 years since I have done a needle drop and damn forgot how good it does sound considering how it all works. Grabbed Bob Marley and the Wailers - Rastaman Vibration. Hadn't planned to but sat down and gave the whole side a listen.

 

Next step is to try recording direct to a computer. I do like the idea of a stand-alone recorder because that means I can put it on and let it rip without tying up my computer. I was looking at the focusrite Scarlett 2i2 as a possible solution. Seems to have a reasonable price, good quality and will go up to 96/24 which I am thinking is the sweet spot for doing the recording. I do like that Tascam DS-3000 though and am thinking of some options on that. Could I rent one for a month? Buy one and then sell it. Anyone interested in splitting on one? If I get myself enthused about doing this I could power through it in a month or two and then sell the recorded as slightly used.

 

I see two steps in this whole process. The first is the capture and ensuring I have good captures and then the second seems to be in the processing (splitting tracks, tagging, cleaning up pop, hiss, etc.).

 

Lots to think about and go over. Very first step is to get a good record brush so that I can get my albums as clean as possible going in.

 

Also entirely possible to buy previous generation standalone recorders used -- for a better price. That's what I did, thinking that I could easily upgrade if I liked the results. But it turned out, for my usage, that original unit has suited me just fine.