Optical Network Configurations

[jabbr]

On 5/14/2018 at 11:05 PM, Superdad said:

By the way, wafer-level chip scale was the package type I was trying to recall on our call last week. A couple of the smaller Altera MAX 10 models are available in that package.  Requires micro-vias for the board which not all houses can do, but the possibilities and advantages are obvious (at least to you).  Of course not an ARM/FPGA hybrid like your Zynq, but useful for other logic work.

 

Sure! Not just micro vias but layout and production skill. Witness the production problems the snickerdoodle project has had : supposedly a $55 zynq board but going on 2 years now and I still haven't received mine -- they've been beset with yield after yield issue ...

 

There are many ways to skin a cat. One could certainly combine an ARM SoC like the Marvel A388 and interface that to a CPLD/FPGA to handle the clocking/deserialization etc but that involves engineering, building and debugging an interface whereas the Zynq has everything on one chip so can be reconfigured with a laptop

 

[jabbr]

On 5/15/2018 at 2:54 PM, zoom25 said:

I'd be interested in hearing comments from the manufacturers and users whether changing the power supply of the upstream FMC can make a difference or not or if the length of cables make any difference, or on the clocks of those upstream FMC. Of course, the power supplies of those upstream FMC should be on other circuits and you could furthermore put the Lumin on a good isolation transformer to get separation, so one can't claim that it's the power supply interaction rather than the signal at hand. Batteries can be used for isolation as well if needed for true isolation.

 

It depends. It is certainly possible that a really crappy FMC or switch or SFP module might make a difference.

 

Not unreasonable to power FMCs with LPS or swap clocks BUT there are also very well engineered pro-grade SFP(+) switches available. You can't easily do 10G if things are really crappy, and even harder to do 24 - 48 lanes at 10G going into an ASIC if things are crappy. I haven't considered replacing the PSU on my Brocade, for example.

 

Easy to get SOA Corning cables, or other cables. 

 

The good pro stuff comes with specifications and measurements.

[jabbr]

https://www.lightwaveonline.com/articles/2008/01/the-road-to-sfp-examining-module-and-system-architectures-54884162.html

 

You'll see that compliant 10gbe equipment needs to be quite good regarding "jitter".

 

That was 10 years ago!

 

Imagine what is needed for the current crop of 100 Gbe switches.

[tgb]

Hi,

I don't know if someone has that kind of setup : to get a better SQ from an optical network (1Gb) you need to add a optical bridge (100Mb).

 

See signature to understand more.

I have a new amp with built-in DLNA streamer. Its network interface is 100Mb.

I connected it to me Opt. Network  with a TrendNet (FMC able to interface 1Gb upstream & 100Mb downstream).

Even powered by battery, the SQ using the optical network was better than a copper link, but not amazing.

So, I added a optical bridge with 2 TPLink MC110CS that work only at 100Mb : here it is ! SQ is much better now, less harsh, natural sound blablabla, all you can expect from optical network.

 

The SQ with the optical bridge alone between my Netgear router & the streamer is not as good as thru the optical network.

Thus, the combination of both optical network & optical bridge is needed to get the most out of it.

 

Off topic : if you're looking for an amazing amplifier, & is fed up buying/selling boxes to fine tune your multi-boxes setup => buy a Classé Sigma 2200i & you won't complain anymore about your hifi gear & just focus on music & recordings.

The 2200i is an all-in-one box : streamer+full digital amplifier (not a classD, no DAC inside, but PWM amplification based). Many features like equalization, many digital inputs (and analog inputs in case someone still uses that..) etc etc...

It is not cheap (5k Eur), but to get that SQ with a multiboxes setup you'll need much more $$$.

The very short links between streamer/amp, and the PWM amplication bring clarity, details, smoothness, 3D, dead low crosstalk : amazing at that price. Top notch SQ, no brainer device, that's a keeper, a long time keeper.

Rgds

[frederick184]

Hello,

 

Looking for some advice re PSU's for FMC's.  My setup is a Mellanox fiber NIC in my dedicated music PC which connects to a fiber switch.  Also connected to the switch, but by TP-LINK FMC's are my NAS and my Eero wireless router.  Ethernet cables to the FMC's are Blue Jeans Cat 6.  The FMC's are powered by iFI iPower supplies, as is the fiber switch.  From the Eero I stream to a second Eero router (mesh network) in a downstairs room and an Auralic Aries.  I now have a spare Uptone LPS 1.2, so I'm wondering where I might get the best use out of it?

 

Thanks in advance

Colin

[soares]

Not sure, but I changed the 2x iFi PS feeding my FMC's with 1 LPS1 + split cable from ghent with great effect. Cheers.

[frederick184]

Thanks.  I decided to put the LPS 1.2 on my Diablo fiber switch, however I decided to try connecting my Altair with fiber from this switch into a TP Link MC220L FMC, powered by the second rail of my Uptone JS-2.  Now I’m finding I get dropouts whether I’m streaming from my NAS or from Tidal.  Reverting to direct ethernet or wireless I get no dropouts.  Any ideas?

 

Colin

[jabbr]

What does the fiber segment connect?

[frederick184]

I have three devices connected to my Diablo Gigabit fiber switch.  My Eero wireless router, my NAS and my Win 10 PC which has Roon core installed.  The PC has a fiber NIC installed, but the other two devices are connected via TP Link MC220L FMC set for Auto.  I decided to run fiber downstairs to my Auralic Altair, via the FMC, which was powered from the Uptone JS-2.  I get dropouts on both Tidal and when I'm pulling music from the NAS.  I tried a bridged connection on the PC and ran the fiber directly from there, rather than via the Diablo.  Same thing.

 

My reason for doing all this is I just purchased a Mytek Brooklyn Dac+ and I want to use it with an Ultra Rendu.  I guess I could connect it to the ethernet port of my second Eero router, but I'm concerned about noise. I guess I could use an Emo network isolator on that cable or something similar.  I don't want to get into using more FMC's and power supplies.  Trying to keep it simple.

 

Colin

[jabbr]

There might be a problem with the FMC or SFP? If things are working correctly you shouldn’t get dropouts.

[frederick184]

Thanks, I'll swap out one at a time and see if that fixes it.  I'm trying to understand this a little better.  My NAS stores my music files, and my PC has Roon core installed.  With this setup, is it worthwhile having a bridged connection on the PC and connecting one to my Diablo and one direct to the Auralic streamer?  

 

Colin

[tboooe]

36 minutes ago, frederick184 said:

With this setup, is it worthwhile having a bridged connection on the PC and connecting one to my Diablo and one direct to the Auralic streamer?  

I have a similar setup and to my ears I think a bridged connection sounds better.

[frederick184]

I'm just curious, because I'm pulling the files from the NAS as opposed to the PC itself, but maybe I'm not fully understanding how the traffic flow works.  

 

Colin

[jabbr]

My current recommendations.

 

I haven't changed my switch but I use a 10Gbe switch (SFP+) and plug 1Gbe SFPs into it (or use the Intel 10g/1g SFP+ modules).

 

In order to configure fiberoptic ethernet end-to-end:

You need:

 

1) an Ethernet switch that has at least 1 SFP port

2) 2 SFP modules eg: 1000base-LX https://www.fs.com/products/12674.html

3) an LC-LC fiberoptic cable that matches your SFP module — in this case single mode : https://www.fs.com/products/40903.html

 

*** change here *** wow! singlemode is really cheap now   go VSEL!

 

4) a network access device that accepts a SFP module and outputs USB eg the ClearFog Base https://www.solid-run.com/product/clearfog-base-1g-8g-e/

 

1. Connect your PC to switch with an Ethernet cable (RJ-45)

2. Plug SFP modules into switch and ClearFog 

3. Connect LC-LC fiber cable to SFP modules

4. Connect your DAC to the ClearFog with a USB cable

 

I've installed HQPlayer's NAA, Roon as well as uPnP/DLNA/mpd and run debian on the ClearFog (the mvebu branch): https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/ClearFog

 

There are these installation instructions: http://blog.jabresearch.com/post/2017/06/04/CLEARFOG-BASE-AS-FIBEROPTIC-NETWORK-AUDIO-ADAPTER-(NAA)

 

They are a bit old but should work.

[jabbr]

Really sweet: https://www.solid-run.com/product-tag/macchiatobin-single-shot/

https://www.solid-run.com/clearcloud-cloud-iot-core/

and https://www.solid-run.com/marvell-armada-family/clearfog-gt-8k/

10Gbe  

Relevant for audio? Maybe not today ... maybe today

10Gbe guarantees 5.5 ps end to end jitter ... i.e. the specs of the higher speed fiberoptic networks require less "jitter" so if you are concerned about jitter and noise etc, the bar keeps on getting higher and higher ... e.g. the board needs a better clock, better chips etc. etc. etc.

[jabbr]

These have Debian stretch images for ClearFog:

https://images.solid-build.xyz/A38X/

[wklie]

There is now an audiophile version of the Cisco SG112-24 Compact switch (with 2 SFP ports) modified with Connor Winfield OCXO.  This dealer also suggests Corning ClearCurve glass fiber.

 

This is NOT a product from Lumin, but since it was tested with Lumin X1 I'd like to mention it as FYI.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hiendy.com%2Fhififorum%2Fforum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D118289&edit-text=&act=url

[soares]

11 hours ago, wklie said:

There is now an audiophile version of the Cisco SG112-24 Compact switch (with 2 SFP ports) modified with Connor Winfield OCXO.  This dealer also suggests Corning ClearCurve glass fiber.

 

This is NOT a product from Lumin, but since it was tested with Lumin X1 I'd like to mention it as FYI.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hiendy.com%2Fhififorum%2Fforum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D118289&edit-text=&act=url

Tks for sharing...

[Superdad]

16 hours ago, wklie said:

There is now an audiophile version of the Cisco SG112-24 Compact switch (with 2 SFP ports) modified with Connor Winfield OCXO. 

 

$750.  Hmm, that Cisco switch goes for $150, so $500 to install the small clock board and a DC jack bypassing/removing the SMPS.  Okay.

[tboooe]

45 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

$750.  Hmm, that Cisco switch goes for $150, so $500 to install the small clock board and a DC jack bypassing/removing the SMPS.  Okay.

Waiting to throw my money at the Uptone switch.  Hurry up already! 

[asdf1000]

22 hours ago, wklie said:

There is now an audiophile version of the Cisco SG112-24 Compact switch (with 2 SFP ports) modified with Connor Winfield OCXO.  This dealer also suggests Corning ClearCurve glass fiber.

 

This is NOT a product from Lumin, but since it was tested with Lumin X1 I'd like to mention it as FYI.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hiendy.com%2Fhififorum%2Fforum.php%3Fmod%3Dviewthread%26tid%3D118289&edit-text=&act=url

 

Unless you have a DAC/streamer with SFP input, then you need x2 of these to block leakage currents (mains RF)?

 

[wklie]

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

Hmm, that Cisco switch goes for $150, so $500 to install the small clock board and a DC jack bypassing/removing the SMPS.  Okay.

 

Yeap, seems like good business for their work ?.  I look forward to the Uptone EtherREGEN switch with SFP input, hopefully at a lower price point with LPS.  I think it'll be great for our customers with more choices available.

[Crom]

Anyone know where to source DECENT clocks mounted on boards with SMA/u.fl outputs?

 

I could buy a clock board from SOTM but they are v expensive. I looked at the pulsar clocks (I don't mind paying for good clocks...but the boards are way overpriced IMO) which I already used in my DAC but they don't have any 25M. With the cracking regulators available from Michael, here www.mpaudio.net or the interesting work being done by Ian on DIYA - eg http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/302687-es9018k2m-es9028q2m-9038q2m-dsd-i2s-dac-hats-raspberry-pi-post5510924.html it would seem to be relatively simple to do the upgrade.

[jabbr]

It’s great to hear about new optical networking products including those that have been modified. This thread is primarily intended as s repository for folks who would like to see what works. 

I’d like to avoid other topics, just to ease the work of people who have to wade through the posts here to see which optical/SFP products work together.

[wklie]

A few days ago we had a Lumin X1 event at Volent Speaker Hong Kong office. The host played the same music after switching among copper LAN, multi-mode SFP, single-mode 1310nm SFP, and single-mode 1550nm SFP available from fs.com, and also cheap fiber vs Corning glass fiber.  The host and the guests agreed that different SFP modules sounded different.

 

There was no universal consensus on which sounds best, but I believe there are more people who preferred the 1310nm SFP to others.  People also preferred Corning glass fiber (but not easy to purchase in a usable terminated form).

 

Details of the setup:
- Lumin X1
- Volent x Clones Cisco SG112-24 OCXO modified network switch
- Plixir LPS for the network switch
- Bespoke passive preamplifier
- WestminsterLab mono amp
- WestminsterLab cables
- Volent Paragon VL-3.5 speakers