Boris75 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I would have never thought this would happen:a live recording of Bruce Springsteen released in DSD. Yes, really, a show including both Born in the USA and Born to Run, available for download in DSD. It is available here: live.brucespringsteen.net - Download Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band August 5, 1984, Brendan Byrne Arena, East Rutherford, NJ MP3 and FLAC The explanation is puzzling though: Transferred from 24 track analog tape to PCM at 24 bit / 192kHz at Sonicraft, Freehold NJ by Plangent Processes. Mixed to DSD from the multitrack reels by Toby Scott at Thrill Hill, April 2015, assisted by Rob Lebret. DSD equipment provided by Gus Skinas of Super Audio Center. It suggests that the 24/192 and DSD downloads are two different mixes, both from the analog multitrack reels. It also kind of lets me think that the DSD transfer might not have benefited from the Plangent Process. An alternative way of understanding this description is that the DSD mix has been prepared using the 24/192 PCM digital versions of the multitrack reels. Of course, one option would be to buy both the DSD and the 24/192 downloads, but at almost $40 for the former and $25 for the latter, it is an expensive proposition. If anyone has listened to both, or knows which of the DSD or 24/192 is the closest to the analog tape ("closest" being defined as "involving the lowest number of conversions"), I would be very grateful for your views. Link to comment
burnspbesq Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Will definitely be checking this one out; I think I was there that night. Office: MacBook Pro - Audirvana Plus - Resonessence Concero - Cavailli Liquid Carbon - Sennheiser HD 800. Travel/Portable: iPhone 7 or iPad Pro - AudioQuest Dragonfly Red - Audeze SINE or Noble Savant Link to comment
Priaptor Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Will definitely be checking this one out; I think I was there that night. Hey if you can't remember and "have to think" whether you were there that night it sounds like you had an awesome time, maybe? Just kidding. There were many concerts I was at when younger I may have been to as well. Lol Link to comment
fritzg Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Now this could make me get a DSD DAC. Though I imagine there isn't any difference between the DSD and the 24/192. ;-) Link to comment
bmoura Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Now this could make me get a DSD DAC. Though I imagine there isn't any difference between the DSD and the 24/192. ;-) If there isn't a difference, you have the wrong DAC. Link to comment
Boris75 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 A poster in a long thread at Steve Hoffmann's forum indicates, after contacting the seller, that the DSD mix is made from the 24/192 Plangent process transfers. Bruce Springsteen's next archive release-Meadowlands 8/5/84 | Page 6 | Steve Hoffman Music Forums Link to comment
bmoura Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 A poster in a long thread at Steve Hoffmann's forum indicates, after contacting the seller, that the DSD mix is made from the 24/192 Plangent process transfers. Bruce Springsteen's next archive release-Meadowlands 8/5/84 | Page 6 | Steve Hoffman Music Forums It also says in that thread that "The transfers were done to Sigma-delta ADC'd 192/24 PCM, the mixes weren't done in the box so Toby played the tracks back and mixed to DSD." Seems pretty unclear exactly where the DSD version came from since "Toby" is shown in the web site credits as doing an Analog to DSD transfer. Link to comment
Solstice380 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Hey if you can't remember and "have to think" whether you were there that night it sounds like you had an awesome time, maybe? Just kidding. There were many concerts I was at when younger I may have been to as well. Lol +1 LOL We were all there, man! Actually, it does seem as if the DSD came from the 24/192 rip. Gus Skinas is the best at DSD but I think I'll opt for the PCM and let HQPlayer do the upsampling! https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
CatManDo Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Have fun trying to hear a difference between 24/192 PCM and DSD with a rock concert recorded in an arena, where the signal from the microphones and electric instruments runs through dozens of meters of cable. Claude Link to comment
bmoura Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 +1 LOL We were all there, man! Actually, it does seem as if the DSD came from the 24/192 rip. Gus Skinas is the best at DSD but I think I'll opt for the PCM and let HQPlayer do the upsampling! The web site says "Mixed to DSD from the multitrack reels" (not the 24/192). So I'm not sure how that means it came from the 24/192. Guess you'd have to ask Toby the engineer to know for sure. Link to comment
baddog Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 If there isn't a difference, you have the wrong DAC. Why is this? Have you heard them and one version is better than the other? Thanks. Silver Circle Audio | Roon | Devialet | Synology | Vivid Audio | Stillpoint Aperture | Auralic | DH Labs Link to comment
bmoura Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Why is this? Have you heard them and one version is better than the other? Thanks. The earlier comment I responded to was "I imagine there isn't any difference between the DSD and the 24/192." Since the two versions appear to each be transferred from the Analog Tapes from what the web site says, my experience has been that an Analog to DSD transfer does sound better than a Analog to 24/192 on my audio system. But the good news is they are making both versions available for download. So you can go with the one you prefer. Choice is good. Link to comment
baddog Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Thanks Brian - that fully makes sense! I have had it go either way on my system, but in almost all cases there was no direct tie back to the same tapes, mastering, et al such as in this case. This is for albums I have purchased. I do know there are sites that offer the same content in different formats for comparison purposes. Silver Circle Audio | Roon | Devialet | Synology | Vivid Audio | Stillpoint Aperture | Auralic | DH Labs Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Looks like the DSD is from an analog capture of the 24/192 files being played. Interesting. I guess if people are willing to pay the extra money for the DSD why not sell it to them :~) Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
elcorso Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Have fun trying to hear a difference between 24/192 PCM and DSD with a rock concert recorded in an arena, where the signal from the microphones and electric instruments runs through dozens of meters of cable. +1 Ha, ha, ha...! I guess the "best" format is that where the noise is better captured and then reproduced Roch Link to comment
Boris75 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Post #281 in the SH forum thread clarifies that: the multitrack reels were digitised to 24/192, the resulting multitrack files were converted to analog and mixed to stereo on an analog console, and the stereo output from the console was converted simultaneously to 24/192 and DSD. The upshot is that the 24/192 and DSD should sound the same, especially considering Claude's judicious observation that this is an arena rock concert, not Chinese percussion recorded in a church. Link to comment
burnspbesq Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hey if you can't remember and "have to think" whether you were there that night it sounds like you had an awesome time, maybe? Just kidding. There were many concerts I was at when younger I may have been to as well. Lol If you can remember everything you did 31 years ago, bully for you, [deleted]. Office: MacBook Pro - Audirvana Plus - Resonessence Concero - Cavailli Liquid Carbon - Sennheiser HD 800. Travel/Portable: iPhone 7 or iPad Pro - AudioQuest Dragonfly Red - Audeze SINE or Noble Savant Link to comment
Jud Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Looks like the DSD is from an analog capture of the 24/192 files being played. Interesting. I guess if people are willing to pay the extra money for the DSD why not sell it to them :~) Hi Chris. If you have a sigma-delta DAC (95+% of the market is my wild-ass guess, though I'd be happy to see actual figures if anyone has them), then the 24/192 is going to be internally converted to sigma-delta (DSD-type) format. So you could look at the extra money as paying for the studio to do that conversion for you on studio equipment, rather than leaving it to a chip in your DAC. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hi Chris. If you have a sigma-delta DAC (95+% of the market is my wild-ass guess, though I'd be happy to see actual figures if anyone has them), then the 24/192 is going to be internally converted to sigma-delta (DSD-type) format. So you could look at the extra money as paying for the studio to do that conversion for you on studio equipment, rather than leaving it to a chip in your DAC. ON studio equipment that's likely less quality than many DACs people use around here :~) Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Jud Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 ON studio equipment that's likely less quality than many DACs people use around here :~) Some DACs for sure, and dare I say, perhaps even more people using some of the very good conversion software available. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Hiro Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Post #281 in the SH forum thread clarifies that: the multitrack reels were digitised to 24/192, the resulting multitrack files were converted to analog and mixed to stereo on an analog console, and the stereo output from the console was converted simultaneously to 24/192 and DSD. The upshot is that the 24/192 and DSD should sound the same, especially considering Claude's judicious observation that this is an arena rock concert, not Chinese percussion recorded in a church. I wonder why they didn't go directly from the analog tapes to the analogue mixing console, why digitize the tapes to pcm if you're using an analogue mixing console... hmm... Link to comment
Boris75 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 In the end, I bought the DSD version, on the presumption that the converter lent by the Super Audio Center to the Springsteen team might be better than the standard one they use for the 24/192 mastering. Anyway, I won't buy the 24/192, so I'll never know which choice is better. Downloading the >7GB of DSD files now. Link to comment
Boris75 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I wonder why they didn't go directly from the analog tapes to the analogue mixing console, why digitize the tapes to pcm if you're using an analogue mixing console... hmm... My understanding is that they did so to apply the "Plangent Process" to get rid of tape wow and flutter. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now