Which of these upgrades should I make to my system?

[Hierge]

All this Strom und Drang is ridiculous, and based on a lie.

 

You know newbie, you are late to this party, and it's been going on a long time with out you, and it'll do just fine after you're gone. Older members, like me, have seen lots of people like you, come, flame out, and go.

 

So its time for me to stop feeding the trolls by simply putting you on:

 

My Ignore list.

 

Bye )

 

Are you crying? There's no crying in audio "Extra Senior Member"

 

[Jud]

Especially with people who are on an equal or better intelligence level than you.

 

That'd depend on who had the good sense to stop first and get back to our enjoyable conversation about audio.

 

Speaking of which, mistersprinkles, what are you contemplating regarding your system and learning more?

 

One thing I think was easier back when I started was the existence of a fair number of brick and mortar stores. I'd visited 15-20 of these numerous times over a period of several years and listened to all kinds of equipment before I made my first purchase. I don't think there's the same opportunity now in most places. Are there any stores nearby where you can listen to stuff you might be interested in?

[4est]

This is very true in my experience.

+1

 

Good advice

 

In fact it can be even worse or more complex than that. A hot (loudness war) mastered album can sound subjectively better at lower volume on crappy systems (like a car) than a fantastic home system (at the same low volume). Great setups sound amazing at realistic volumes (quite loud) when playing well mastered (unclipped) material with large dynamic range. A loudness war Metallica Death Magnetic or RHCP album will sound awfully harsh when played at loud levels on a great system because the good system will just give you unflinchingly and untamed ALL the horrid distortion that is actually there on the source. It is a real minefield out there....

[Hierge]

That'd depend on who had the good sense to stop first and get back to our enjoyable conversation about audio.

 

Speaking of which, mistersprinkles, what are you contemplating regarding your system and learning more?

 

One thing I think was easier back when I started was the existence of a fair number of brick and mortar stores. I'd visited 15-20 of these numerous times over a period of several years and listened to all kinds of equipment before I made my first purchase. I don't think there's the same opportunity now in most places. Are there any stores nearby where you can listen to stuff you might be interested in?

 

I'm done with the Sturm und Drang unless someone is preparing another round for me and I have to look up even more obscure references... I actually do like it though. It's actually a very good description of someone's perception. A little Ivory Tower, but I feel enlightened.

 

I'm with the idea of listening in stores too, but CA research combined with liberal return policies is how I've decided to move forward. That and buying cheap stuff off of Ebay and Amazon. Raspberry pi servers etc. I'm going to fill in all the boxes on conventional wisdom. I have JRiver now, the Modi, Windows 12 with a free optimization script, and a lot of good music to rip.

 

There are a ton of great videos on Youtube as well. The best so far I've seen are on the Rocky Mountain Audio fest. I watched a panel discussion with the top experts such as Gordon Rankin and Paul Barton on it. CA founder Chris was in the audience. These people have forgotten more than I've ever learned on audio. They are the gold standard for BS and truth as far as it can be known.

 

I think mrsprinkles may be similar to me in wanting to ramp up on the conventional wisdom as easily as possible. I could be wrong. I was going to PM this to sprinkles, but I'm posting it here. It's the best list of articles on audio wisdom I've seen from one author Tom Nousaine of Stereo Review. Articles on how there are only two "real subwoofers" on the market capable of causing a bowel movement. Nousaine is the guy who wrote the 17 year old article I posted. He's very much part of the current discussion of audio wisdom in my opinion though elitists are likely to scoff. Who cares.

 

Here's the list. These are PDF files that take forever to download. They are all worth it. Check out the one on the subwoofer enclosure he built with his entire basement as the enclosure. It's literally insane and he's my hero for building this. He's not sipping red wine and toasting in the country club, he's got a room of test equipment and general contractors.

 

Nousaine.com - The Archived Works of Tom Nousaine

 

Cheers!

[Jud]

+1 regarding RMAF videos. They're a treasure trove of good information from some very smart folks.

[pooger]

All this Strom und Drang is ridiculous, and based on a lie.

 

I asked you to stop arguing about DBT's, and explained why. That's it. You could have just said OK, or No.

 

Instead I'm accused of demanding complience, and threating consequences. That's bullshit ! I Did Not Say Anything Like That. Ever.

 

Then the overreaction, the snide comments, spreading the lie, embellishing it, and enlisting 'me-too's. Now this unabashed personal attack

 

It's nothing more then... childish online bullying !

 

 

 

That could explain your inappropriately agressive behavior here (and one wonders why you would take such a job?).

 

No matter. Based on what your postings have shown me, you're just a Mid Fi Guy, and aren't likely to contribute anything I'd be interested in, and not much of a human being either, at least, not online

 

You know newbie, you are late to this party, and it's been going on a long time with out you, and it'll do just fine after you're gone. Older members, like me, have seen lots of people like you, come, flame out, and go.

 

So its time for me to stop feeding the trolls by simply putting you on:

 

My Ignore list.

 

Bye )

 

+1

[Tone Deaf]

All this Strom und Drang is ridiculous, and based on a lie.

 

I asked you to stop arguing about DBT's, and explained why. That's it. You could have just said OK, or No.

 

Instead I'm accused of demanding complience, and threating consequences. That's bullshit ! I Did Not Say Anything Like That. Ever.

 

Then the overreaction, the snide comments, spreading the lie, embellishing it, and enlisting 'me-too's. Now this unabashed personal attack

 

It's nothing more then... childish online bullying !

 

 

 

That could explain your inappropriately agressive behavior here (and one wonders why you would take such a job?).

 

No matter. Based on what your postings have shown me, you're just a Mid Fi Guy, and aren't likely to contribute anything I'd be interested in, and not much of a human being either, at least, not online

 

You know newbie, you are late to this party, and it's been going on a long time with out you, and it'll do just fine after you're gone. Older members, like me, have seen lots of people like you, come, flame out, and go.

 

So its time for me to stop feeding the trolls by simply putting you on:

 

My Ignore list.

 

Bye )

 

+2

[mistersprinkles]

Well... it looks like I need to make a new thread about making upgrades to my system because this one has devolved into some sort of P*ssing contest. Ridiculous.

 

Hierge, I was on your side dude but you've taken this too far, and you have caused a massive derailment and crapping of my thread. Now I have to make a new one.

 

Just accept the culture of the forum, man. You don't have to like the rules, but you do have to follow them, or face the ban hammer. The same is true on every forum on the interwebs.

[Hierge]

Well... it looks like I need to make a new thread about making upgrades to my system because this one has devolved into some sort of P*ssing contest. Ridiculous.

 

Hierge, I was on your side dude but you've taken this too far, and you have caused a massive derailment and crapping of my thread. Now I have to make a new one.

 

Just accept the culture of the forum, man. You don't have to like the rules, but you do have to follow them, or face the ban hammer. The same is true on every forum on the interwebs.

 

Sorry sprinkles. Didn't mean for this to happen. This guy doesn't relent and I couldn't back down because I'm new. He started taunting me with how people are going to embarass me. I did my best to help you, but sometimes a point has to be driven all the way home. I took it as far as I had to take it. Again sorry. I'm not the one who started this and it wasn't you being pushed around so I don't expect you to understand why I had to back him down. When a bully gets away with this a point has to be made. Hope you find answers in an new thread. You can block me. I won't jump in anymore. I am happy with the outcome that he blocked me and I don't have to listen to him anymore.

 

In case you haven't seen, your thread and my statements are rather tame compared to the personal insults and flames on climate change in the general forum. You can single me out for not backing down and putting this person in his place, but there is far worse here. In time you might begin to see my side. I'm a high flyer and controversy really doesn't bother me. I don't see you criticizing him for calling me "mid fi" or a "newby." It's always the guy in the NFL who retaliates for pass interference who gets called and I expected that.

 

The level of discourse on this site is MUCH worse than I've seen on football sites. Way more venomous, by the way.

[realhifi]

 

The level of discourse on this site is MUCH worse than I've seen on football sites. Way more venomous, by the way.

 

Sillier too.

[mistersprinkles]

Sorry sprinkles. Didn't mean for this to happen. This guy doesn't relent and I couldn't back down because I'm new. He started taunting me with how people are going to embarass me. I did my best to help you, but sometimes a point has to be driven all the way home. I took it as far as I had to take it. Again sorry. I'm not the one who started this and it wasn't you being pushed around so I don't expect you to understand why I had to back him down. When a bully gets away with this a point has to be made. Hope you find answers in an new thread. You can block me. I won't jump in anymore. I am happy with the outcome that he blocked me and I don't have to listen to him anymore.

 

In case you haven't seen, your thread and my statements are rather tame compared to the personal insults and flames on climate change in the general forum. You can single me out for not backing down and putting this person in his place, but there is far worse here. In time you might begin to see my side. I'm a high flyer and controversy really doesn't bother me. I don't see you criticizing him for calling me "mid fi" or a "newby." It's always the guy in the NFL who retaliates for pass interference who gets called and I expected that.

 

The level of discourse on this site is MUCH worse than I've seen on football sites. Way more venomous, by the way.

 

 

I never once condoned the way you were being spoken to. I found it quite offensive. All I'm saying is that sometimes it is best not to argue with aggressive problem starters. It's best to walk away. A possible caveat of standing up for yourself is being singled out as a guy with a raw nerve. Then people press on that nerve more to get a rise out of you. It's all a double edged sword. I just avoid confrontations online these days. easier.

[Jud]

Audio anyone?

[Hierge]

Audio anyone?

 

You are stone cold calm my man. Very good self control. I bet you are well liked around here...

 

These forums are exciting! I love the spirited discussions on the Audio Critic thread.

 

Cheers!

[mayhem13]

I see some things never change around here. Sad that's all I really have to say in what has become a cesspool of fanatacism. I'll make another check in a few months to see if the tides have turned. Much better uses of my time elsewhere.

 

See y'all.

[tranz]

I see some things never change around here. Sad that's all I really have to say in what has become a cesspool of fanatacism. I'll make another check in a few months to see if the tides have turned. Much better uses of my time elsewhere.

 

See y'all.

 

Had not seen you in a while, this was the first such thread in a quite some time...

[Hierge]

I see some things never change around here. Sad that's all I really have to say in what has become a cesspool of fanatacism. I'll make another check in a few months to see if the tides have turned. Much better uses of my time elsewhere.

 

See y'all.

 

I'm so sorry to have been part of this. In previous forums I've been involved with it's bad form to suffer a drive by attack and let the offender get off easily. I've been a moderator and it really makes me fume when people pretend to be moderators. You won't find me doing this again. Please come back to the group and give it a chance.

[Hierge]

Had not seen you in a while, this was the first such thread in a quite some time...

 

Sorry Tranz. This is the last time for me. I was hazed and it's over now. I don't like self appointed moderators and reacted in a way I will not react again.

[mistersprinkles]

is there any chance of getting this back on track and me getting some more advice? Or should I just start another thread. I think if there are mods watching this thread, now, or perhaps even 24 hours ago would be a good time to lock this thread. It has run its course. Twice. Perhaps even three times over.

[Hierge]

is there any chance of getting this back on track and me getting some more advice? Or should I just start another thread. I think if there are mods watching this thread, now, or perhaps even 24 hours ago would be a good time to lock this thread. It has run its course. Twice. Perhaps even three times over.

 

Did you get the Supra cable yet and if so impressions. Also, how are the speaker pads you bought doing. Are you still as happy with them after listening for longer?

[mistersprinkles]

Did you get the Supra cable yet and if so impressions. Also, how are the speaker pads you bought doing. Are you still as happy with them after listening for longer?

 

Im happy with the speaker pads. Now that I am used to the sound from my speakers I am no longer impressed by it, but I guess that's true with anything. I think I might save up $4000-5000 and get a proper HI FI one of these days.

 

The Supra cable was ordered may 2nd from Ebay and just this morning (May 9th. It was my birthday today BTW) it was shipped out, and I got the notice via email. So it took them 7 days to put a cable in a box and hand it off to fedex. Pretty sad if you ask me. Who knows when it'll get to me. 2017 maybe?

[Hierge]

Im happy with the speaker pads. Now that I am used to the sound from my speakers I am no longer impressed by it, but I guess that's true with anything. I think I might save up $4000-5000 and get a proper HI FI one of these days.

 

The Supra cable was ordered may 2nd from Ebay and just this morning (May 9th. It was my birthday today BTW) it was shipped out, and I got the notice via email. So it took them 7 days to put a cable in a box and hand it off to fedex. Pretty sad if you ask me. Who knows when it'll get to me. 2017 maybe?

 

Happy Birthday BTW. I know the feeling about a 5K system. I have a system like that, but it's starting to show age at about ten years old. My wife left and I lost everything, the kids and my 7500 sq foot house on a golf course. She had spent down and hidden a lot of money too. I'm just starting to get back into audio, but computer audio is new to me.

 

If I were to spend 5K again it'd be speaker heavy like my system is now. Over the years I've always been interested in electrostatic speakers so Martin Logans would be on the audition list first. I'd also need fantastic bookshelf speakers. Not sure there, but PSB would be back there as a possibility. The Schiit family of products would be my upgrade pathway. The dedicated Windows 12 computer is a project I'm working on now with a Vaio laptop. These new music services are interesting like Tidal. Pono would be a purchase too. I'd have to get the highest end reference headphones from Sennheiser and Grado.

 

Then I'd get the dedicated room set up like in my old house where I had a theater setup. This time though there will be room treatments and a computer programmed setup. I have the room now, but not the money. I have a house that'd be perfect, but I have five kids ranging from Middle School through out of college.

 

I think that computer audio is in a golden age as people say. Just got two sets of earbuds from Amazon earlier. Trying the Yuin's and Sennheisers.

 

I'm sorry about the Supra. If it's the guy from Washington State you'll get a nice catalog. The cable is in a pretty normal package, but it is hand made with a tag on it from the inspector. Very cool. Plug it in and be amazed. I am so happy I got it. My Modi has broken in now and I'm in audio bliss at work. At home my new wife is audio averse so I'm breaking her in slowly over time.

 

I have a three thousand dollar stereo in my Mustang and she won't let me crank it with her in the car. It's a convertible so I needed a loud system. It's also ten years old... need a new head unit. The Alpine I have is fantastic, but older and devoid of features. I'll need a DAC for the car too.

 

What is your 5K purchase plan?

[davidbeinct]

They are approx. $24K/pair. I've heard them. They are nice, but they don't sound 12x better than my $2K B&W's.

 

Do they sound twice as good? I'm not being facetious, I don't think you expect quality improvements to track linearly with cost increases in audio.

[Paul R]

Do they sound twice as good? I'm not being facetious, I don't think you expect quality improvements to track linearly with cost increases in audio.

 

I used to tend to think that way, but I am coming around to the dark side and thinking no, that isn't exactly true. Here we are talking about a 12X price increase - they absolutely should sound and look and be warrantied *at least* 2X better than $2K speakers. (!)

 

If you step back and look at it without the audiophile lens on the camera, almost none of us would pay 12X the cost for something unless it it was several times better than the competition!

 

-Paul

[mistersprinkles]

Happy Birthday BTW. I know the feeling about a 5K system. I have a system like that, but it's starting to show age at about ten years old. My wife left and I lost everything, the kids and my 7500 sq foot house on a golf course. She had spent down and hidden a lot of money too. I'm just starting to get back into audio, but computer audio is new to me.

 

If I were to spend 5K again it'd be speaker heavy like my system is now. Over the years I've always been interested in electrostatic speakers so Martin Logans would be on the audition list first. I'd also need fantastic bookshelf speakers. Not sure there, but PSB would be back there as a possibility. The Schiit family of products would be my upgrade pathway. The dedicated Windows 12 computer is a project I'm working on now with a Vaio laptop. These new music services are interesting like Tidal. Pono would be a purchase too. I'd have to get the highest end reference headphones from Sennheiser and Grado.

 

Then I'd get the dedicated room set up like in my old house where I had a theater setup. This time though there will be room treatments and a computer programmed setup. I have the room now, but not the money. I have a house that'd be perfect, but I have five kids ranging from Middle School through out of college.

 

I think that computer audio is in a golden age as people say. Just got two sets of earbuds from Amazon earlier. Trying the Yuin's and Sennheisers.

 

I'm sorry about the Supra. If it's the guy from Washington State you'll get a nice catalog. The cable is in a pretty normal package, but it is hand made with a tag on it from the inspector. Very cool. Plug it in and be amazed. I am so happy I got it. My Modi has broken in now and I'm in audio bliss at work. At home my new wife is audio averse so I'm breaking her in slowly over time.

 

I have a three thousand dollar stereo in my Mustang and she won't let me crank it with her in the car. It's a convertible so I needed a loud system. It's also ten years old... need a new head unit. The Alpine I have is fantastic, but older and devoid of features. I'll need a DAC for the car too.

 

What is your 5K purchase plan?

 

It's more preferably a 4K purchase plan at this point that can be (painfully) stretched to 5K. It's about a year away. Maybe a little longer. I'm not a wealthy man and I have to save up for this kind of thing. I don't like putting things on credit because you get jerked around at 18% interest.

 

I don't know what I'm going to buy. I was hoping this whole audio thing would be as straight forward as computer hardware where, yes, a GTX 980 IS better in every way than a GTX 970 and you should buy it. Or where a 4790K IS better than a 4690K and you should buy it. There is no subjectivity. Audio is so listener dependant... Mike says system A sounds better, Joe says Mike is nuts and system B sounds better.... It's so confusing... It looks like I'm going to have to do some actual research over the next 12 months.

 

I haven't gotten around to visiting the HIFI stores yet. I plan to definitely. As soon as Whiby Audio gets my cable that I had custom made in stock I will be going there to pick it up and will listen to various HI FI systems until they close or get sick of me and kick me out... I almost got kicked out of Bay Bloor Radio when I bought my old headphones in 2010 because I was in there for 4 1/2 hours listening to all the different headphones and they guy thought I was just a tire kicker. I bought $400 cans though at the end of the day.

 

I'm surprised that people are saying that the Bowers/Wilkins 800 Diamond just sound "nice". I have read a few reviews calling them "the finest loudspeakers in the world". I figured adjectives like "incredible" and "brain melting" would be used to describe them lol.

[davidbeinct]

I used to tend to think that way, but I am coming around to the dark side and thinking no, that isn't exactly true. Here we are talking about a 12X price increase - they absolutely should sound and look and be warrantied *at least* 2X better than $2K speakers. (!)

 

If you step back and look at it without the audiophile lens on the camera, almost none of us would pay 12X the cost for something unless it it was several times better than the competition!

 

-Paul

 

Actually Paul, we are in complete agreement. I didn't mean to imply that a 2x difference was anything to sneeze at, just that in audio, you generally need to (after getting over the decent sound price hump) spend lots, and I'd say generally around 10x, to "double" your sound quality.