Marantz SA-11S3 USB Dac Issues - Mac OSx Yosemite

[canadian_shaun]

Hello everyone, I am having issues with my Marantz SA-11S3. I am using the DAC in my SA11S3 to feed it via MacBook Pro with music files using Audirvana Plus. It worked under OS Mavericks. I did the upgrade to Yosemite, the latest Apple OS and there is only a few seconds of music playing correctly and then the music comes out all warbled, scratchy (timing is all messed up almost). Is it due to the driver used for the DAC provided by Marantz? And iTunes directly did not work either. I Know that Mac OSx should not need a driver so I have tried with or without, and had the same issues. I have also tried using it with or without Audivana. ...As well as trying it with a different laptop to confirm it was not the issue. But zero luck. I am using the USB-B port on the rear panel, which provides compatibility with a wide range of digital formats, including up to 192 kHz/24 bit digital audio, and is compatible with asynchronous data streams from a computer. Unfortunately Macintosh does not make it possible to easily return to a previous operating system. It's their way or the highway attitude. I have tried to contact Marantz directly but I cannot find anyone there that has any idea what the SA11S3 is, never mind help me with my issues. There has to be someone out there that has/had this similar issue? Thanks, Appreciate the help. SA-11S3 Info: Marantz CA | SA-11S3

[Ned Kelly]

OK - I guess we're going to have to teach one another to suck eggs, but the only issues I've had with my MBP/SA14S1 combination are a dodgy USB port causing dropouts and a complete refusal to play AAC files at one point. My approach would be to get iTunes working from the headphone out on the MBP and take it from there. I'm also using Mavericks but have never tried Yosemite.

 

- I assume you've double checked that the Marantz appears in the System Preferences->Sound dialog ? Mine appears as 'USB High-Speed Audio' but the Marantz also seems to work with it set to 'Internal Speakers'

- what format are your music files in ?

- remove any drivers - OS X should be doing this natively

- I assume you've googled for ANY sound issues (or general USB problems) post Yosemite install ?

- if there is a front USB connector on the 11S3, plug in a USB stick and confirm that you can still play music without the same symptoms

 

I very much doubt that Marantz could do anything for you even if their help desk knew their butts from their elbows - the firmware on our players isnt (AFAIK) user-upgradeable and if it was working on Mavericks I believe they're justified to expect that the problem doesnt lie with their firmware. We've all been ping-pong balls when each company points you to the hardware/software guys on the other side, but I think you have a much better chance of sorting this via the massive Mac community online. They dont need to know anything about the 11S3 - from their POV, its just a 'USB soundcard' that worked under Mavericks and doesnt under Yosemite : simple.

 

I'll be interested to hear how you get on, even though I have no plans to upgrade. Worst case, you may have to backup and go back to Mavericks, but I expect that isnt what you want to hear. Good luck.

[Ned Kelly]

I also assume you've read this thread:

 

Mac OSX 10.10 Yosemite Problem/Mytek DSD 192

 

One poster claims the SA8005 works on Yosemite without issue - I think that is a later model than the SA11S3, but surely the USB standard wasnt changed for Yosemite ....

[canadian_shaun]

OK - I guess we're going to have to teach one another to suck eggs,

 

please explain?

 

but the only issues I've had with my MBP/SA14S1 combination are a dodgy USB port causing dropouts and a complete refusal to play AAC files at one point. My approach would be to get iTunes working from the headphone out on the MBP and take it from there. I'm also using Mavericks but have never tried Yosemite.

 

- I assume you've double checked that the Marantz appears in the System Preferences->Sound dialog ? Mine appears as 'USB High-Speed Audio' but the Marantz also seems to work with it set to 'Internal Speakers'

 

Yes, same item shows up in my System Preferences, with and without the Marantz driver. I also played with MIDI setup as that will determine the bit rate that is being output through the USB. (Audivarna does this for you automatically when activated)

 

- what format are your music files in ?

 

AIFF (although i have tested MP3 and had the same issues)

 

- remove any drivers - OS X should be doing this natively

 

Just to confirm that the Marantz driver they supplied was the issue I did a fresh install on the MBP as Marantz does not offer a driver UN-install with their Mac OSx download... and Mac OSx is hopeless when you try to UN-install drivers. (took MBP to a Mac dealer and they told me I would have to do a re-install of OS to confirm the driver has been erased)

 

- I assume you've googled for ANY sound issues (or general USB problems) post Yosemite install ?

 

I could not find anything thing else online that relates to my issue. Although I do not live on the computer, and from my couple of hours of looking I could not find anything, although i am sure some troll will pipe up and tell me wrong.

 

- if there is a front USB connector on the 11S3, plug in a USB stick and confirm that you can still play music without the same symptoms

 

Although I have not tried a USB stick, I have used an iPod connected to this port and everything works fine. I have also used my iPod with my Arcam doc via digital coaxial on the back of the unit and no issues.

 

I very much doubt that Marantz could do anything for you even if their help desk knew their butts from their elbows - the firmware on our players isnt (AFAIK) user-upgradeable

 

Correct. Too bad they do not offer the firmware upgrades.

 

and if it was working on Mavericks I believe they're justified to expect that the problem doesnt lie with their firmware. We've all been ping-pong balls when each company points you to the hardware/software guys on the other side, but I think you have a much better chance of sorting this via the massive Mac community online. They dont need to know anything about the 11S3 - from their POV, its just a 'USB soundcard' that worked under Mavericks and doesnt under Yosemite : simple.

 

Cool, good idea.

 

I'll be interested to hear how you get on, even though I have no plans to upgrade. Worst case, you may have to backup and go back to Mavericks, but I expect that isnt what you want to hear. Good luck.

 

Appreciate all the help. Will update if I hear anything else.

[canadian_shaun]

Yes, I came across that thread last night. Doesn't say anything related to the SA-11S3. Although the best advice I got was not to jump to the next OS release... You would think since Yosemite has been released for a while now that there would be updates.

[Ned Kelly]

Yes, I came across that thread last night. Doesn't say anything related to the SA-11S3. Although the best advice I got was not to jump to the next OS release... You would think since Yosemite has been released for a while now that there would be updates.

 

Can you confirm that iTunes is working from the MBP's headphone out ? I think you are focussing too heavily on the Marantz : as I aid earlier, its really just a 'USB soundcard' from the POV of the Apple community. Once you've determined that Yosemite hasnt completely screwed your system's ability to produce sound from the onboard chip, it then becomes a case of eliminating possibilities. I occasionally have problems which come down to assorted weirdness like the volume control in either the playback software being muted : its a head slap moment, but it happens.

 

As for the 'suck eggs' comment, it was used constantly during my time in the Army as a pretext to any lesson where we were expected to have a basic understanding of how something worked but they had to take conduct the lesson as it was written :

 

Teaching grandmother to suck eggs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

You'll see plenty of threads where people get offended when they're told how to 'suck eggs' in relation to something basic, but we shouldnt need a PhD to sort issues like this. Personally, I'm pretty ticked off that I paid this much money for a laptop with only 2 USB ports and one of them is a dud : I've confirmed this by trying to plug my iPad into it and watching the MBP go into conniptions because it cant decide if there is something on that port or not. Moving the cable to the other port instantly fixes the problem and it instantly solved my dropouts, an issue I initially blamed on the Marantz.

 

Finally, I wouldnt be too hard on any 'troll' who tries to point you to issues with Yosemite and sound output - the issue may well lie in one of those posts and there are several here who've had far more experience with OS X than I'll ever have. Personally, I'm fine with Marantz not making the firmware user-upgradeable as they do with their HT receivers : the prospect of being left with an expensive brick doesnt appeal to me. In any case, I still dont believe this issue is specific to the Marantz, and the comment from the SA8005 owner in the thread I linked to earlier makes me inclined to think the problem is Apple-specific. Ideally, access to a Windows-based PC would help you confirm that, but I appreciate that we dont all have 3+ machines sitting around the house.

[Ned Kelly]

Oh snap ... installed Yosemite to find my Marantz - same DAC chipset as yours - didnt play anything from my Mac mini : 'Unsupported format', so I started poking around.

 

OK - i didnt think of this immediately either, but shutdown your OS X playback software then go into:

 

Applications -> Utilities -> Audio MIDI Setup

 

you should be able to configure the Marantz from here. My sampling rate ('Format') was set to 352.8k - reset that to 44.1 and my SA-14S1 magically plays my music again. The other setting should be '2-ch, 24-bit integer' - that was fine on my Yosemite install but some dufus has allowed the MIDI settings to default to the highest possible sample rate. Just another example of people under pressure rolling something out without testing it.

 

Please advise if this fixes your problem.

[Ned Kelly]

Interestingly, my IFI iDSD nano had no problems with the default and I suspect this is why some are claiming that their DAC is working without issue. I dont have time to mess around with higher bitrate music - A+ should change the sample rate automatically - and I'm not that interested in DSD : just get 16/44.1 working and take it from there.

[canadian_shaun]

Oh snap ... installed Yosemite to find my Marantz - same DAC chipset as yours - didnt play anything from my Mac mini : 'Unsupported format', so I started poking around.

 

OK - i didnt think of this immediately either, but shutdown your OS X playback software then go into:

 

Applications -> Utilities -> Audio MIDI Setup

 

you should be able to configure the Marantz from here. My sampling rate ('Format') was set to 352.8k - reset that to 44.1 and my SA-14S1 magically plays my music again. The other setting should be '2-ch, 24-bit integer' - that was fine on my Yosemite install but some dufus has allowed the MIDI settings to default to the highest possible sample rate. Just another example of people under pressure rolling something out without testing it.

 

Please advise if this fixes your problem.

 

Thanks, but as I stated in my earlier message, I did go into the MIDI set up and adjust those settings. I also tried it with and without Audivarna as that software will automatically adjust those settings as per the bitrate of the song you are currently playing via iTunes.

 

Can you confirm that iTunes is working from the MBP's headphone out ? I think you are focussing too heavily on the Marantz : as I aid earlier, its really just a 'USB soundcard' from the POV of the Apple community. Once you've determined that Yosemite hasnt completely screwed your system's ability to produce sound from the onboard chip, it then becomes a case of eliminating possibilities. I occasionally have problems which come down to assorted weirdness like the volume control in either the playback software being muted : its a head slap moment, but it happens.

 

Yes. The headphone out port works correctly. I also have tried my Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC and everything seems to be working well with that configuration.

 

As for the 'suck eggs' comment, it was used constantly during my time in the Army as a pretext to any lesson where we were expected to have a basic understanding of how something worked but they had to take conduct the lesson as it was written :

 

Teaching grandmother to suck eggs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Roger that.

 

You'll see plenty of threads where people get offended when they're told how to 'suck eggs' in relation to something basic, but we shouldnt need a PhD to sort issues like this. Personally, I'm pretty ticked off that I paid this much money for a laptop with only 2 USB ports and one of them is a dud : I've confirmed this by trying to plug my iPad into it and watching the MBP go into conniptions because it cant decide if there is something on that port or not. Moving the cable to the other port instantly fixes the problem and it instantly solved my dropouts, an issue I initially blamed on the Marantz.

 

Unfortunately, I have noticed as well that Macintosh seems to be lowering their product standards over the last 5 years. I feel your pain. (Maybe because everything Apple builds (other than the Mac Pro) is done over seas, in low wage sweat shops? ) Hopefully with the release of Windows 10 (and the return of the classic start menu), Mac users that are frustrated with the Apple's 'be happy with what we give you' attitude, will have an option to go back to a decent operating system...this we could go on and on about, maybe on a different thread Back to getting my DAC working properly!

 

Finally, I wouldnt be too hard on any 'troll' who tries to point you to issues with Yosemite and sound output - the issue may well lie in one of those posts and there are several here who've had far more experience with OS X than I'll ever have.

 

When I referred to a 'Troll', I was referring to the 'guy' that will respond to any thread, any topic, with nothing positive to say to help with the problem or topic at hand. A 'know-it-all' or a 'Fanboy' that will just post cynical or sarcastic remarks because he has nothing better to do with his time.

 

I appreciate you responding to this post, or anyone else that can contribute to this frustrating issue that I am having.

 

 

Personally, I'm fine with Marantz not making the firmware user-upgradeable as they do with their HT receivers : the prospect of being left with an expensive brick doesnt appeal to me.

 

I agree that it is frustrating to have to do firmware updates whenever you turn on a device, but in situations when the designer might of overlooked something that could be easily fixed, it would be nice to plug in my Ethernet cable and let it fix itself.

 

 

In any case, I still dont believe this issue is specific to the Marantz, and the comment from the SA8005 owner in the thread I linked to earlier makes me inclined to think the problem is Apple-specific. Ideally, access to a Windows-based PC would help you confirm that, but I appreciate that we dont all have 3+ machines sitting around the house.

 

Lol, agreed. Going to try an experiment later this afternoon with my MBP. I just installed Parallels with Windows 7, I will access the SA-11S3 through Windows Via iTunes AND Windows Media Player and report the results.

 

Thanks again for your input,

 

Shaun.

[canadian_shaun]

I have tried to contact Marantz directly but I cannot find anyone there that has any idea what the SA11S3 is, never mind help me with my issues.

 

FYI

 

I did try Marantz customer service a 3rd time, I did talk to a gentlemen that had a good attitude that took an interest to my issue and was going to do his best to help me out. I will report any findings he has if/when he calls be back.

[Daniel Hilsdorf]

FYI

 

I did try Marantz customer service a 3rd time, I did talk to a gentlemen that had a good attitude that took an interest to my issue and was going to do his best to help me out. I will report any findings he has if/when he calls be back.

 

Hello mate, by any chance were you able to solve the issue? Im having exactly the same problem and can't find a way to solve it!

[徐中銳]

Briefly, I wrote somewhat a reply 5 weeks ago here (within Comments).

 

And, even with recent OS incompatibilities for its USB-B DAC feature, still an in demand product in Japan's SACD Players market. At last week's Tokyo International Audio Show 2015 :

 

[CatManDo]

It seems that some hifi companies are struggling with computer features, which is outside their historic domain of competence.

 

The Windows driver for the Marantz SA-11S3 DAC feature dates from 2012, when the player was introduced, and when Windows 7 was the most recent version. Marantz doesn't bother mentioning whether the driver is compatible with Windows 8 and later. The webpage or manual hasn't been updated.

 

The manual of the more recent SA-14S1 is from February 2015 and mentions Windows 8 but not 8.1.

 

So potential buyers have to guess if they can use a new PC with these players.

 

Marantz US | SA-11S3

Marantz US | SA-14S1

[徐中銳]

Greetings Claude,

doing a Google search on « SA-11S1 » I find this initial iteration, without DAC inputs, was in the market by 2005. There's a limit to fine-tuning the original design ?

 

Well, I regard Marantz firstly in terms of its engineers (and global distributors [who maintain their country's site and customer service] are but secondary), quoting Ken Ishiwata in answer to :

So assessing quality (and improving it) all depends on your understanding of the relationships of the sonic characteristics.

In principal yes, but in reality the characteristics are never the same. The context changes our perceptions of sound in relation to our environment. Of course we have documented methodologies in approaching and developing our designs but sometimes we have to use completely different components in order to get the results we want. There is no ‘set formula’ for design. For example, if someone referenced my tweaking on one unit as a guideline for the design of another, they will fail. Because the sensitivity of the component combinations produce the unique characteristics that make the product interesting. Take a football team in this instance. You may put together 11 of the best players in the world but that doesn’t mean that they are going to win. It is exactly in the elements of these players that a true sense of harmony must be sought and in the same way. A good Hi-Fi engineer must be able to understand this.

In short, time moves on. And « potential buyers » need to research and tap into forums such as this to ask...

 

And here's a glimpse of the two key engineers from Thai distributor's marantz trip in JAPAN :

 

 

 

 

Another Ishiwata remark was :

I’d like to be able to tell you that it’s such-and-such a component combination, or the copper plated chassis, or something else. But as I’ve explained it is how all the different elements work together – as one holistic system. Why were the Beatles so special? Was it John and Paul’s song writing? Or was it Ringo’s earthiness or George’s mysticism? Or something else? No it was all of these characteristics – and the fact that they all worked together as one. If you changed one element the whole of the band would have been affected.

Incidentally, have you tried comparing product information from various Marantz websites ? I prefer, in this order, Japan, UK, then US.

[kdplan9]

Hello, I wanted to see if you ever found a solution to this. I purchased a Mac Mini to be a dedicated music server and have the SA-11S3. I downloaded the USB driver from the Marantz website and connected the Mac Mini to the SA-11S3 via USB cable to the rear USB port. I set the input to PC and was able to get great audio for probably 5-6 seconds and then it became very distorted, scratchy, etc as you described. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[徐中銳]

I purchased a Mac Mini to be a dedicated music server and have the SA-11S3.

 

If so, in short (it's morning in New Zealand, am hurrying...), you need to revert to OSX 10.9.5 or earlier, see :

Briefly' date=' I wrote somewhat a reply [August 22, 2015'] here (within Comments).​

 

Also, consider :

Greetings David' date='

a perhaps interesting interlude until I've more time to focus on replying to you at the [b']HD-AMP1 Thread[/b], couple of key insights I've kept in mind from Marantz' White Paper Guide to PC-Audio pdf :

In this document we will mainly focus on the last option on the list, the USB-B connectivity as this is the recommended way for music lovers to enjoy their music in the best quality possible. The player acts as a DAC – Digital to Analogue Converter (in fact it replaces the soundcard of your PC / MAC) and directly converts the digital music signal to analogue domain to hand it over to the amplifier.

 

But first let’s dig a bit more into the different ways of accessing music to get a better understanding and clarify some terminology...

 

TIPS AND TRICKS TO GET THE BEST FROM YOUR USB-DAC

 

1. Select a good USB cable (sound will be strongly influenced by the USB cable; interference & noise).
   
2. USB-Cable: Not longer than 5m, and the quality of shielding will also have some influence on the sound quality. Test several cables to optimise performance. Try adding a Ferrite Core as used on some network cables.
   
3. We strongly recommend you to add a Ferrite Core on your network cable to minimize noise interferences.
   
4. For the PC / Mac an SSD hard disc is preferable – SSD stands for Solid State Disk and has, in comparison to standard hard disc, no rotating elements inside. Another step to reduced interference. Sound will be even smoother and more detailed.
   
5. Use your PC or Mac only for Music listening. Kill all unnecessary running apps. There is no need for a high performance super-fast PC. Standard processor is just fine.
   
6. If you use Spotify streaming service, make sure you set the data rate to 320kps – highest resolution.
   
7. DSD playback. The NA-11S1 supports DSD2.8Mhz (64) and DSD5.6Mhz (128). In case of DSD2.8 playback “DSD2.8224MHz” will be shown. For DSD5.6 it is “DSD>2.8224MHz”, this >means bigger than 2.8.
   

[airheadair]

It seems that several people are unable to use the USB inputs on the back of their Marantz SA-11S3 with Macintosh computers runnings Yosemite. Has this issue ever been fixed? I was planning on buying this Marantz, but now am having doubts. There is also the SA-14S1 to consider, which has the advantage of playing DSD files, but some people say it doesn't sound as good.

 

Any advice?

[徐中銳]

DSD files

 

Quickly, if you're into DSD, is it significant to know that their new SA-10 is said to do :

« upsampling of all incoming digital signals to DSD 11.2 MHz »

 

 

 

[wgscott]

It seems that several people are unable to use the USB inputs on the back of their Marantz SA-11S3 with Macintosh computers runnings Yosemite. Has this issue ever been fixed? I was planning on buying this Marantz, but now am having doubts. There is also the SA-14S1 to consider, which has the advantage of playing DSD files, but some people say it doesn't sound as good.

 

Any advice?

 

Welcome, airheadair!

 

Sorry, it is easy for important questions like yours to get lost in all the near-hallucinogenic off-topic thread-bombing.

 

I can't answer your question from the point of view of Marantz, but from the point of view of OS X, 10.11.X (especially the latest two revisions, 4 and 5), address at least a subset of the USB issues that 10.10 (Yosemite) suffered from. So it might be worth trying with the very latest version of OS X.

[davidbeinct]

Welcome, airheadair!

 

Sorry, it is easy for important questions like yours to get lost in all the near-hallucinogenic off-topic thread-bombing.

 

But the pictures! The pictures are so pretty!

[徐中銳]

Once again, hatemongering at me won't get you your validation :

Your validation will never come through me.

How about instead of cut-and-paste quotes' date=' you tell us what [b']you[/b] think about stuff?

 

As to your defaulting, other « point of view » :

I can't answer your question...

 

Careful readers will know the question was answered here, in January, with #16 :

If so' date=' in short (it's morning in New Zealand, am hurrying...), you need to revert to OSX 10.9.5 or earlier, see :

[/font']

Briefly' date=' I wrote somewhat a reply [/font'][August 22, 2015] here (within Comments).

 

And davidbeinct, no worries, compassion for you remains unaffected

[Tapper]

Good news!

The Schiit Eitr (Eater), USB to SPIDF converter, resolves this issue. 

 

Happy listening,

 

Tapper

[watercourse]

Didn't see this very old thread til now.

I had my buddy's SA-10 in here for about two weeks, back in the December 2016. I ran (and still run) Yosemite and switched between my current DAC and the Marantz without any issue using the USB connection.

I'm not sure if this was ultimately resolved by Marantz with new firmware, since the OP was in May 2016, but my friend's SA-10 was one of the first off the barges to the US, so had the first firmware version. He had the SA-11S3 prior to stepping up to the SA-10, and both sound magnificent.

[Tapper]

Hello Watercourse,

 

Thank you for sharing. I own a SA-14S1 circa 2015/6. Always played nicely with my iPad, but was too fussy to play from a MacBook Pro. Now the Eitr has it sounding better than ever-big relief as you can imagine. Can only imagine what that SA-10 must sound like. 

 

Cheers,

Glenn

[airheadair]

Thank you both for these posts.  I currently have an SA 14, which so far works fine with my iMac and El Capitain.

I'm only now experimenting with Sierra, and it seems to be okay there two, with and without Audrivana Plus (version 2.x)

 

Sorry, what is "Eitr" ?

 

I am very interested in hearing more about the SA10.  For me, SACD's (some of them) sound really excellent on the SA14, but  most CD's don't match to my LP setup.  Any idea how the SA10 would compare to the SA14?  I know it used a completely different approach to the DAC, but how does that pay off?