PCM to DSD conversion realtime & streaming.

[evalon]

Hi All,

 

I have a question on PCM-to-DSD conversion and streaming that I hope you may be able to help with ...

 

I'm considering a pure DSD DAC, however, would like to be able to also playback:

 

- my existing PCM files and CDs, and

 

- stream music from internet based radio stations as well as e.g. youtube realtime - converted to DSD512 (or as an alternative DSD256).

 

I use a PC with Windows 7.

 

I know that e.g. HQPlayer can convert PCM-to-DSD on the fly in DSD512 but is it also able to do so while streaming from an internet radio or youtube?

 

Would there be other softwares that can do this in best possible sound quality, e.g. foobar or JRiver?

 

I would much appreciate your insights on this ;-)

 

Cheers & thanks,

 

Jesper

[EuroDriver]

Take a look at this blog

 

Lossless Streaming Services - Blogs - Computer Audiophile

HQ Player can play Qobuz and Tidal CD quality streaming files no problem using Kodi as the bridge software

 

for lossy format internet radio streams, the best quality I have heard is using JRiver passing the wav stream to foo_asio which comes with the SACD plugin for Foobar

 

quoting Geoff Armstrong

 

You first need to install this in foo bar, the foo_asio is then selectable as an output device in JRMC. Use the live playback feature of JRMC to loop the Internet radio stream through JRMC then out through foo_asio to your DSD DAC.

[evalon]

Hi EuroDriver ... many thanks for your feedback ;-) I can see that it's a lengthy blog with lots of (to me) new information so I'll probably take some time to digest what is said there. However, the most important thing is to know that it works so that I may continue my DSD DA converter considerations and then digest the computer related information along the way.

 

BTW: I also noted on diyaudio that you've been much into the HQPlayer and upsampling to DSD256 (maybe 512 also?) for some time. Any chance you have a link to the preferred results for this and maybe also a comparison with PCM sound?

 

Have a good day :-)

 

Jesper

[EuroDriver]

Hi EuroDriver ... many thanks for your feedback ;-) I can see that it's a lengthy blog with lots of (to me) new information so I'll probably take some time to digest what is said there. However, the most important thing is to know that it works so that I may continue my DSD DA converter considerations and then digest the computer related information along the way.

 

BTW: I also noted on diyaudio that you've been much into the HQPlayer and upsampling to DSD256 (maybe 512 also?) for some time. Any chance you have a link to the preferred results for this and maybe also a comparison with PCM sound?

 

Have a good day :-)

 

Jesper

 

Here is the HQP kickstarter thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hqplayer-kick-start-guide-and-feature-requests-20870/

 

Here is the main HQ Player thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/

 

I don't have a DAC that can handle DSD 512 :-(

[evalon]

Many thanks ... will look into it along with the DSD DAC.

 

Cheers ;-)

 

Jesper

[Hiro]

- stream music from internet based radio stations as well as e.g. youtube realtime - converted to DSD512 (or as an alternative DSD256).

 

Not sure this is possible. It would be great if it were though...

[bobbmd]

just downloaded hqplayer trial for 3-4th time same thing for kodi cannot get any sound from kodi playing qobuz or tidal and all i get from hqplayer is my itunes library

can i play qobuz and tidal through hqplayer trial or do i have to buy it and how do i get kodi to play/output sound from qobuz and tidal and all those other 'neat' things they offer

my DAC is schiit gungnir i have mac mini i7 16gb ram

[Miska]

HQPlayer trial is fully functional, so buying a license only removes nagging and time limitation.

[bobbmd]

thanks Miska but what about my other concerns and to clarify are Qobuz and TIDAL compatable with HQP or is jst TIDAL and do i have to use ROON with HQP

[Miska]

thanks Miska but what about my other concerns and to clarify are Qobuz and TIDAL compatable with HQP or is jst TIDAL and do i have to use ROON with HQP

 

There are couple of ways to play Tidal with HQPlayer. Roon being one. I don't know about Qobuz, it is not available in Finland.

[Maldur]

There are couple of ways to play Tidal with HQPlayer. Roon being one. I don't know about Qobuz, it is not available in Finland.

 

There is only one needed way to play anything with HQP or any other similar software. Plugin for ASIO/WASAPI or CoreAudio - every sound what passes thru OS audio mixer, then can be directed to realtime converting to DSD.

All services like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify or any other uses PCM based codec, even "analog in" from soundcard is outputted in PCM to mixer. Why we restrict itself to file based or handful stream based music services only? Watching some musical documentaries or just good sounding movies or live TV shows is also good when we convert them to DSD audio...

Especially when we have DSD only DAC's now.

[semente]

There is only one needed way to play anything with HQP or any other similar software. Plugin for ASIO/WASAPI or CoreAudio - every sound what passes thru OS audio mixer, then can be directed to realtime converting to DSD.

All services like Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify or any other uses PCM based codec, even "analog in" from soundcard is outputted in PCM to mixer. Why we restrict itself to file based or handful stream based music services only? Watching some musical documentaries or just good sounding movies or live TV shows is also good when we convert them to DSD audio...

Especially when we have DSD only DAC's now.

What would you use for Mac OS?

[Maldur]

There is no such plug-ins yet, so hard to tell... If Miska wrote some universal input plug-in for HQP, then i can try HQP. Maybe mansr can do this for Audirvana+, why not? There is no technical point writing for every known app specific plug-in - when all works with PCM and can pass OS mixer.

I made some times ago video with DSD audio, this is musical show from TV and is very enjoyable that way. I made this in offline mode ofcourse.

[Miska]

There is only one needed way to play anything with HQP or any other similar software. Plugin for ASIO/WASAPI or CoreAudio - every sound what passes thru OS audio mixer, then can be directed to realtime converting to DSD.

 

Usually the plugin infra has various painful limitations that make it really impractical. For example VST doesn't allow rate conversion because it expects plugins to input and output at the same sampling rate. ASIO is closest to doable, but stacking two ASIO drivers is asking for trouble and anyway Spotify, Tidal etc know nothing about ASIO.

 

Watching some musical documentaries or just good sounding movies or live TV shows is also good when we convert them to DSD audio...

 

You would likely have a lot of lip-sync problem due to algorithmic delays...

[Maldur]

You would likely have a lot of lip-sync problem due to algorithmic delays...

 

Yes, i understand this clearly. Then delaying video packets is solution and not very hard to do. There is another moment, that delay is not constant, it depends how exact computer performs when converting.

 

Usually the plugin infra has various painful limitations that make it really impractical. For example VST doesn't allow rate conversion because it expects plugins to input and output at the same sampling rate.

 

Ok, VST output SR can be very same as input, just HQP needs to understand this SR (for video usually 48kHz). I don't think that this possible plug-in needs to convert by own power, more practical way is to act like ESI does - Direct Wire virtual mixer, just it feeds all OS mixer outs to HGP converter input. There is also WDM to ASIO driver, but it is not free: O Deus ASIO Link - Linking ASIO applications, WDM Windows Audio, and audio over IP/LAN

Basically we need plugin with various input and fixed output to HQP, or where input signals are like "What I Hear" in early Windows systems (how this is now called in modern times i don't know). HQP needs to automatically detect SR from input.

Yeah, in theory it is simple .

 

I think now, maybe a hardware SRC chip like AK4137 can help out, when connecting it to DSC1 input...

[mansr]

Yes, i understand this clearly. Then delaying video packets is solution and not very hard to do. There is another moment, that delay is not constant, it depends how exact computer performs when converting.

 

As long as the delay is bounded, it can be made constant by adding a buffer.

[Miska]

I think now, maybe a hardware SRC chip like AK4137 can help out, when connecting it to DSC1 input...

 

If it's as horribly bad quality as the built-in DSD upsampling in TEAC UD-503/NT-503 (I don't know if they use it or something else), then not worth bothering really...

[Miska]

Ok, VST output SR can be very same as input, just HQP needs to understand this SR (for video usually 48kHz). I don't think that this possible plug-in needs to convert by own power, more practical way is to act like ESI does - Direct Wire virtual mixer, just it feeds all OS mixer outs to HGP converter input. There is also WDM to ASIO driver, but it is not free: O Deus ASIO Link - Linking ASIO applications, WDM Windows Audio, and audio over IP/LAN

Basically we need plugin with various input and fixed output to HQP, or where input signals are like "What I Hear" in early Windows systems (how this is now called in modern times i don't know). HQP needs to automatically detect SR from input.

 

Well, someone else could actually implement something like that for HQPlayer. All the necessary ingredients from HQPlayer side are there already.

 

There are no sampling rate limitations in HQPlayer as such, you can give it for example 56789 Hz input sampling rate just fine.