Roon Labs Software

[mevdinc]

Exactly and JPlay is just one example, HQPlayer may do something similar or another new more interesting engine may come along, who knows.

[Always.Learning]

I am very much in favor of subscription pricing for ALL software of continued use. You want continuous maintenance and improvement in soft, and people have to make a living.

 

I agree -- a subscription model is more likely to result in continuous updates over time. I also believe it is unrealistic to expect to be able to continue to use a subscription software product after you stop paying for it.

[Paul R]

Sorry... Came out a bit strong and bitchy... I assume you're specifically referring to jplay.

 

A trifle strong perhaps, but for what it is worth, I really hope the JPlay, HQPlayer, A+, Amarra, and other systems are *not* available with the Roon software unless they have worked some kind of license deal with Roon first. I am really tired of hearing all the complaints. Nothing we have today works perfectly 100% of the time with audio.

 

At least there is always hope for the future.

 

-Paul

[miguelito]

A trifle strong perhaps, but for what it is worth, I really hope the JPlay, HQPlayer, A+, Amarra, and other systems are *not* available with the Roon software unless they have worked some kind of license deal with Roon first.

My expectation, especially since it looks like Roon is a Meridian spinoff, is that they will have their own playback software, which will likely include MQA, will have to include DSD, and that's that. And if it is awesome, then I will use it.

 

However, I have to say I have been so blown away by HQPlayer lately that I have a hard time settling for anything that doesn't use it. Best would be for HQP to have the ability to work with Roon as you say.

 

It's interesting that I would be just happy with Aries/A+/whatever if there was no chance of testing other stuff. Alas, HQP and others exists and thus I am unable to stay away and not try them all out.

[mevdinc]

As long as they don't effect each other's business negatively I don't see why JPlay or HQPlayer could not integrate with Roon or anything else?

Since I will own and pay for both I don't see any conflict, on the contrary, they will support each other's business, each with its own strength(s) adding to the other, which is great for us endusers.

 

IMHO, of course!

[Paul R]

I agree -- a subscription model is more likely to result in continuous updates over time. I also believe it is unrealistic to expect to be able to continue to use a subscription software product after you stop paying for it.

 

Seriously? I spend many many dollars on software each year, and every bit would continue to operate should I decide to stop paying yearly subscriptions. Not one piece of software would stop working if I decided not to pay software subscription on it. From z/OS to Microsoft Word.

 

-Paul

[orgel]

I spend many many dollars on software each year, and every bit would continue to operate should I decide to stop paying yearly subscriptions. Not one piece of software would stop working if I decided not to pay software subscription on it. From z/OS to Microsoft Word.

 

I get what you're driving at, but I'm not sure Microsoft Office is considered a subscription in the current parlance. (z/OS is outside my realm of experience, praise the Lord.) On my side, I also spend many dollars on software in a year, and I'm pretty certain that Adobe Creative Cloud and the specialized vertical-market DBMS we use for project management here would both stop working if we stopped paying the monthly and annual subscription fees, respectively.

 

I think the main things that differentiate the subscription model from the older model (whatever you want to call it) are that (1) you pay a fee on a fixed schedule (e.g., monthly, annually) and (2) the s@#t stops working if you stop paying.

 

--David

[Paul R]

I get what you're driving at, but I'm not sure Microsoft Office is considered a subscription in the current parlance. (z/OS is outside my realm of experience, praise the Lord.) On my side, I also spend many dollars on software in a year, and I'm pretty certain that Adobe Creative Cloud and the specialized vertical-market DBMS we use for project management here would both stop working if we stopped paying the monthly and annual subscription fees, respectively.

 

I think the main things that differentiate the subscription model from the older model (whatever you want to call it) are that (1) you pay a fee on a fixed schedule (e.g., monthly, annually) and (2) the s@#t stops working if you stop paying.

 

--David

 

I get told that a lot. But there is always a better alternative. You can do Microsoft Word on the Microsoft 360 program, which is a total subscription, but it is just as easy to keep it on an Enterprise subscription. That way, if and when we ever decide to totally drop Microsoft, things will work until the transition is done.

 

Enteprise pricing is like re-purchasing the entire software set every three years anyway. (*sigh*)

 

-Paul

[flatmap]

@flatmap

 

What we are doing with classical is unprecedented in its power and understanding of the unique issues of classical music in comparison to pop and even jazz. You will be very, very happy.

 

I can understand where you come from on a subscription, given that you haven't seen anything yet and what the industry standards are.

 

But I think when you see how the service works and what it does on an ongoing basis, you will understand why a subscription is the only relationship we can have with our users if we are going to always keep giving you the best product possible.

 

Well, you have my attention. I am interested to see what you've got up your sleeves.

 

The time I spend on metadata assignment and maintenance is surprisingly substantial. You would think that, over the years my library would be in tip-top shape and that each year would bring continual refinement to the tagging of each album. Not so. My library is continually corrupted and molested by various updates in computer hardware and software and perhaps by different behaviors across desktop and portable environments.

 

Really, some days it would be enough simply to not lose -- and then reattach -- cover art.

[robdarling]

Well, you have my attention. I am interested to see what you've got up your sleeves.

 

The time I spend on metadata assignment and maintenance is surprisingly substantial. You would think that, over the years my library would be in tip-top shape and that each year would bring continual refinement to the tagging of each album. Not so. My library is continually corrupted and molested by various updates in computer hardware and software and perhaps by different behaviors across desktop and portable environments.

 

Really, some days it would be enough simply to not lose -- and then reattach -- cover art.

 

I've known your pain. In about 2003, the 1800 albums that I used for reference in my studio were all put into "unknown artist, unknown album" when iTunes crashed during an update. They were all wav, so there were no tags to save the organization. It was bad.

 

That won't be a problem with Roon.

 

Plus, you will get a whole lot more than just covers and track titles, and an incredible number of ways to really interact with information, not just read it.

[gnan]

 

Plus, you will get a whole lot more than just covers and track titles, and an incredible number of ways to really interact with information, not just read it.

 

Can you describe some of the ways your software will enhance how I interact with information?

[robdarling]

Can you describe some of the ways your software will enhance how I interact with information?

 

It might be good to start at the beginning and describe how things work...

 

When you first set up Roon software, you tell the system all the places where you keep music... various folders on the local machine, maybe a nas, maybe other computers in the house... and from then on, it will watch those folders for any audio files that might come into them.

 

Then Roon identifies all the files and starts gathering data about them... reviews, bios, credits (track and album level), lyrics, composers, related artists, collaborators, influences, labels, release dates... and then goes farther to identify artists and performers within the albums and gets information about them as well.

 

But this information isn't just static eye candy that you just read...

 

Roon generates links out of all this data and builds a surfable, searchable digital magazine out of your collection.

 

So, to give an example of how you might interact with it...

 

Say you are listening to "Kind of Blue."

 

You tap on the credits for "So What" and think "I don't know enough about Bill Evans."

 

You search for Bill Evans.

 

Now you are taken to a page that has a bio, all his own albums, albums he played on, people that influenced him, people he influenced... a lot of new paths from Bill Evans

 

You see all his main albums, all his appearances, albums he played with Miles Davis, albums he played with Stan Getz, collections on which he appears... a lot of music.

 

So you tap one of his albums, say "Alone".

 

You start playing the first track, and think "Why does this song feel so familiar? Who is the composer?"

 

You tap on James Van Heusen and find all the great songs he's written, tap on "Come Fly With Me" and end up at "Sinatra at the Sands".

 

So, depending on the type of music you listen to, I think you can imagine any number ways this can constantly be taking you down new paths in your collection.

 

And it only gets better when you step outside your private collection into the collection of a subscription service.

[gnan]

It might be good to start at the beginning and describe how things work....

 

Thanks for that, I'll be watching for your release.

[Skywatcher]

It might be good to start at the beginning and describe how things work....

 

Rob, first and foremost, thanks a lot for all the information you've been sharing. I was a fan of sooloos back in the day and have total confidence that you'll probably blow our socks off once again as you did then.

 

A very quick question for you. Upon scanning one's collection and gathering all the information for artists, composers, etc, does the Roon software actually change the physical files' tags or just stores that info in a roon library database (or has the ability to do both)?

I'm a bit weary on leaving any software to automatically change all my tags, to be honest. Unless I can verify it first, at least.

 

Cheers,

[occamsrazor]

I'm a bit weary on leaving any software to automatically change all my tags, to be honest. Unless I can verify it first, at least.

 

This....

 

I think the new software sounds very interesting, but I wouldn't trust any software to automatically alter metadata, particularly if you have an esoteric collection...

[ted_b]

I would be shocked if Roon automatically changed anything within your file, without the users approval. Most of this metadata is web-based and likely then stored in a Roon database that points to your files. My biggest question remains: what does it do with finding files that have album names that have suffixes (due to adding an identifier to differentiate among versions) like Kind of Blue-24192 vs Kind of Blue (vinyl rip) vs Kind of Blue (DSD). Although players like JRiver can do this differentiation without it (custom views based on sample rate, for example) the suffixes often help confusion amongst same sample rate stuff (redbook versions of KOB, one in 87, one redone by RVG, etc).

[gnan]

This....

 

I think the new software sounds very interesting, but I wouldn't trust any software to automatically alter metadata, particularly if you have an esoteric collection...

 

I couldn't imagine it altering tags automatically. It sounds like it is pulling in dynamic info.

 

I wonder how it matches music that is poorly tagged or tagged in ways that are slightly non standard. Does it do acoustic matching, music brainz or the echo best?

 

 

 

 

 

Edit, sorry didn't see the same questions asked above by Ted

[robdarling]

I'm a bit weary on leaving any software to automatically change all my tags, to be honest. Unless I can verify it first, at least.

 

Cheers,

 

Rest assured, all we do is watch the folders you choose for audio files that land in them. Then we identify and build our database. We don't touch your stuff.

[occamsrazor]

Rest assured, all we do is watch the folders you choose for audio files that land in them. Then we identify and build our database. We don't touch your stuff.

 

And a legion of forum posters breathes a sigh of relief :-)

 

Out of interest, how does the system incorporate existing file metadata into the database info? How does it resolve conflicts between local and online info? Can we assume if no online info is detected it would still use the local info?

I'm sure all of this will become clear in time, and the new service does sound interesting, I'm just trying to see how it would work,

 

As a slight parallel, I use Plex for media library software, which uses metadata "agents" to scrape various online sources. Bear in mind this is for video files with no metadata except file name and size. It does a pretty amazing job generally, but does get some files wrong which is annoying. I just wonder how the Roon system deals with missing metadata or conflicted metadata.

 

Anyway, will be very interesting to see. Though I have to say I'm not a fan of the subscription model, although I see the advantage to a developer.

[robdarling]

@occamsrazor... there is a lot that goes on with metadata, so rather than retype, here is a link to a good set of answers to your questions:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/leveraging-existing-metadata-in-audio-files/210

[robdarling]

... My biggest question remains: what does it do with finding files that have album names that have suffixes (due to adding an identifier to differentiate among versions) like Kind of Blue-24192 vs Kind of Blue (vinyl rip) vs Kind of Blue (DSD). Although players like JRiver can do this differentiation without it (custom views based on sample rate, for example) the suffixes often help confusion amongst same sample rate stuff (redbook versions of KOB, one in 87, one redone by RVG, etc).

 

We are not relying on the names as our primary identifier, so if you are appending information to the names, we should identify it.

 

We have a pretty elegant new solution to the mind-bending issues of presenting duplicates in the interface, and I think you will probably be as excited about it as we are.

[billg]

I am quite okay with a subscription model -if- I can quit paying and the application continues to work, though perhaps without updates.

 

I am quite actively opposed to any model I invest in that will "stop working" completely should I decide to stop investing.

 

-Paul

 

I agree with this. Like antivirus updates. Things should just stop updating (but keep working) when you decide/need to stop paying subs.

[BobSherman]

I agree with this. Like antivirus updates. Things should just stop updating (but keep working) when you decide/need to stop paying subs.

 

I guess we are talking about two different aspects of their software, player vs feature set.

 

I would guess without subscription it will still function as a player but without the advanced features, database, search, info etc. These are the features worth paying for IMO.

 

Looking forward to trying it!

[billg]

It would be great to have separate subs for each component (metadata browser and player) with a discount for both. I guess I'm labouring this a bit, but I would not like to lose the ability to use something after investing in it for some years. Nor do I want to pay for something I do not want to use.

[robbbby]

Will the software be capable of tagging files with absolutely no tags based upon filenames and/or the track lengths?

 

Also can you comment at all on the actual playback portion of the software. Can we expect playback to be up to "audiophile" standards and be able to compete with some of the other offerings?

 

One other question, can we expect stutter/glitch free browsing of very large libraries while scrolling through cover art? IMO for remote browsing/control it doesn't get much better than JRemote so hopefully the app for handheld devices is well done.