Roon Labs Software

[ted_b]

This would be great if it could also play the role of a control point, linked to a renderer (like Sonore Rendu, for example). One, many control points are woefully lax in detail and useability. Two, it would not be unheard of to have both a server like Minimserver, and then a metadata server like Roon talking to one another (kind of like running Minimserver with Bubble Server on a NAS, for example). An Open Home control point that mimics Sooloos's richness would be quite a hit! I'd pay for that!!

[Paul R]

@ Always.Learning...

 

The second part of your question... how could you use Roon to learn more about your collection?

 

That is really the magic.

 

When you install the server app, you tell it all the places where your storage lives. Then we pull down a TON of data about it, from a number of different sources.

 

We then weave all that data into an interface that is like a web magazine about your collection... album and track credits, artist and performer bios, composers, related musicians, influencing musicians, photos... with hyperlinks to let you surf it all.

 

So all the relationships and contexts that used to make albums and album art an essential part of music are presented not just as eye candy, but as something you can actually interact with and explore.

 

To top it off, this data is all dynamic. So when a new album comes out by an artist, the bios and artist info update. If there are guest players on the album, then the info about those guest players changes too. Very cool stuff.

 

It is the result of 15 years of work and is pretty awesome.

 

We can't wait for everyone to start using it.

 

Thanks for joining us here and making the information available.

 

So how about an "early release" or discount for CA members? Where else can you find a whole bunch of professional software and hardware engineers, mathematicians, and even rocket scientists who are all music lovers with extensive music collections? :)

 

 

-Paul

[4est]

If this could be combined as a front end to HQPlayer, I'd be into this!

[woodford]

 

We would love to have feedback... what devices do people use and who would you like us to communicate with?

 

probably a lot to ask that you support a discontinued platform, but there's still a huge installed base of squeezeboxes. I have six, and would love to use them via a "sooloos like" interface.

[robdarling]

@Always.Learning... sorry to disappear on you... I have a 5 year old and it is Easter weekend

 

To give you a better picture...

 

Roon is a complete music player software for library metadata location/identification, browsing, playback control, and streaming. Roon software allows for multiple simultaneous users, control points, and endpoints (multi-room, multi-control, multi-user playback)

 

So it would not sit side by side with Aurender's Conductor, as your example.

 

We would need a way to discover, communicate with, and stream to the Aurender (or any third party streaming device.) We will have a program for working with manufacturers to implement our discovery, communication, and streaming protocol, but the details of that will come in the next week or so.

 

Thanks for the patience... it is hard to talk about something people can't see yet!

 

 

 

So if I understand you correctly, Rob, then it sounds like the Roon Labs app would not need to "integrate" with an app from Aurender or Aries to be of value to a user of one of these devices. Instead, you would point the server app towards your collection and it would create data that would be accessed through the Roon Labs app. The Roon Labs app could live side-by-side with control apps like Aurender's Conductor app. Sitting in your listening chair with an iPad, you could access both apps during a listening session, accessing your music and playlists from your control app, and then switching to the Roon Labs software to learn more about your collection. Did I get that right?

[robdarling]

@4est

 

I'm not familiar with how HQPlayer works, but if I understand correctly, your goal would be to use Roon as the browsing/playback interface while outputting audio via HQPlayer in some way so you could use all the filtering options?

 

If HQPlayer could act as an audio output at the system level, Roon could be "routed through" HQPlayer. But I'm not sure if that is something that they do.

 

If this could be combined as a front end to HQPlayer, I'd be into this!

[robdarling]

@woodford

 

One thing I can say about endpoints is that we won't be supporting UPNP players. There are a lot of core features to Roon software that just aren't compatible with how UPNP needs to work.

 

That would rule out the Squeezebox, unfortunately.

 

But our protocol for discovery, communication, and streaming will be available for third party manufacturers to implement so their endpoints appear as Zones in Roon software, in the way that Airplay zones appear automatically in iTunes (but much better!).

 

I can't speak AT ALL for the actual possibility of it being achieved, but I am always at amazed what the squeezebox community continues to get out of those devices now that it is all open.

 

Maybe there is someone out there who could implement the protocol for squeezebox. Maybe there isn't.

 

I'd be happy to hear from someone and talk about possibilities. I can be pm'ed.

 

probably a lot to ask that you support a discontinued platform, but there's still a huge installed base of squeezeboxes. I have six, and would love to use them via a "sooloos like" interface.

[robdarling]

@Paul R

 

Thanks for having me!

 

I'm not sure what the policies are around here for talking about commerce, so Chris would have to weigh in, but I suppose maybe we could talk about something like qroup buy as we get closer to actually launching?

 

Thanks for joining us here and making the information available.

 

So how about an "early release" or discount for CA members? Where else can you find a whole bunch of professional software and hardware engineers, mathematicians, and even rocket scientists who are all music lovers with extensive music collections? :)

 

 

-Paul

[woodford]

@woodford

 

One thing I can say about endpoints is that we won't be supporting UPNP players. There are a lot of core features to Roon software that just aren't compatible with how UPNP needs to work.

 

That would rule out the Squeezebox, unfortunately.

 

But our protocol for discovery, communication, and streaming will be available for third party manufacturers to implement so their endpoints appear as Zones in Roon software, in the way that Airplay zones appear automatically in iTunes (but much better!).

 

I can't speak AT ALL for the actual possibility of it being achieved, but I am always amazed what the squeezebox community continues to get out of those devices now that it is all open.

 

Maybe there is someone out there who could implement the protocol for squeezebox. Maybe there isn't.

 

I'd be happy to hear from someone and talk about possibilities. I can be pm'ed.

 

thanks Rob, appreciate the followup. i wasn't aware squeezeboxen were UPNP devices, although i suppose they do function similarly.

 

i guess another endpoint of interest would be a BlueSound Node, which is not a UPNP device. The BS ecosystem is great, but UX is not their strong suit.

[robdarling]

@woodford

 

I am not an expert on Squeezebox, but my understanding is that UPNP is how we would be able to talk to them. If I am incorrect, I'd love to know more details.

 

Thanks,

 

- r

 

thanks Rob, appreciate the followup. i wasn't aware squeezeboxen were UPNP devices, although i suppose they do function similarly.

 

i guess another endpoint of interest would be a BlueSound Node, which is not a UPNP device. The BS ecosystem is great, but UX is not their strong suit.

[Adyc]

Rob,

 

Will you also launch streaming device as well? If not, which third party streamers will work with Roon?

[robdarling]

Rob,

 

Will you also launch streaming device as well? If not, which third party streamers will work with Roon?

 

@Adyc

 

At this time, we aren't planning to make any boxen.

 

We are just getting started on working with manufacturers and will have some first announcements about partnered third party devices in a few weeks.

 

We've only been able to talk openly about this for a few days, so bear with us as we move through these first few weeks... we don't like to make promises we don't keep.

[4est]

Thank you for the reply. I am not sure about how this would work, but I feel it might be worth investigating. HQPlayer lacks strong library features, and I would assume Roon lacks their advanced filtering capabilities. Many here (myself included) feel their pcm>sdm algorithms make HQPlayer the best sounding player available presently.

 

 

@4est

 

I'm not familiar with how HQPlayer works, but if I understand correctly, your goal would be to use Roon as the browsing/playback interface while outputting audio via HQPlayer in some way so you could use all the filtering options?

 

If HQPlayer could act as an audio output at the system level, Roon could be "routed through" HQPlayer. But I'm not sure if that is something that they do.

[ted_b]

It's looking more and more like Roon is a full music player (i.e like JRIver), which will be evaluated not only on its unique metadata gathering but also on its sound quality ("HQplayer is better than JRIver is better than iTunes", etc etc). As we know, bit perfect players sound different, and Roon will be entering that debate contest. Get your popcorn ready.

 

4est, I bet sound engines like Jplay will play with Roon (set Roon's output to JPlay ASIO as opposed to some DAC driver), but doubt HQplayer would. It's GUI is not exactly separated from its engine. Jussi?

[sdolezalek]

It's looking more and more like Roon is a full music player (i.e like JRIver), which will be evaluated not only on its unique metadata gathering but also on its sound quality ("HQplayer is better than JRIver is better than iTunes", etc etc). As we know, bit perfect players sound different, and Roon will be entering that debate contest. Get your popcorn ready.

 

4est, I bet sound engines like Jplay will play with Roon (set Roon's output to JPlay ASIO as opposed to some DAC driver), but doubt HQplayer would. It's GUI is not exactly separated from its engine. Jussi?

 

Ted: Although I fear that you are correct, there is actually an interesting argument to be made that the two functions should be separated by a standard API that would allow us to combine the best of a library function with the best pure player. It is clear that the core skills are somewhat different and history so far has shown us that the best libraries fall short of perfection on sound handling and the best sounding players have poor to middling library functions.

 

What Roon is doing is supercool, but I have found that there are days when I just want to explore my collection (today I use JRiver for that) and days when I just want the best sound (I use HQ Player and Audirvana for that), but over time the days of exploration have dropped in favor of more days just focused on the best sound. If I could get both, would I pay twice? Sure!

[ted_b]

Sdolezalek, my point exactly. I won't go as far as saying I was more excited when I thought Roon was an open library manager (somehow plug into things like HQplayer) but I gotta assume they know what they are doing with the signal path, too...not just the file path. We'll see.

[Audio_ELF]

One thing I can say about endpoints is that we won't be supporting UPNP players. There are a lot of core features to Roon software that just aren't compatible with how UPNP needs to work.

I must say I'm disappointed you won't be supporting UPnP Renderers...

 

Being able to play to Sonore and Linn and Naim and PS Audio and Marantz and Lumin and all the rest would have been a great functionality I would think.

[gnan]

that UPNP is how we would be able to talk to them. If I am incorrect, I'd love to know more details.

- r

 

No, they use json/rpc. Do you have an api that allows third party integration?

[dallasjustice]

It's hard to imagine how Roon could ever replace Jriver for those who use Jriver's more advanced functions. I hope there's a plan to integrate Roon inside Jriver without requiring a new application. I know Meridian is a well respected firm with big money but Jriver has been actively developing it's software for a while now and the feature set so deep. I'll be shocked if Roon could do it all.

 

Michael.

[Paul R]

It's hard to imagine how Roon could ever replace Jriver for those who use Jriver's more advanced functions. I hope there's a plan to integrate Roon inside Jriver without requiring a new application. I know Meridian is a well respected firm with big money but Jriver has been actively developing it's software for a while now and the feature set so deep. I'll be shocked if Roon could do it all.

 

Michael.

 

Much as I love JRiver, the biggest thing I think they have going for them is the JRemote interface. I am totally intrigued about Roon, as it has the possibility of being better than JRemote.

 

Actually, I am rather hoping that J. River and Roon get into a competition, but that's just dreaming. Unless the cost of Roon is utterly insane (a possibility) I am pretty darn sure I will be buying it and checking it out ASAP.

 

I have just spent a frustrating 3 day weekend at odds with JRMC over video. Even to the point of buying another Windows PC and putting it up sole to serve video. And ran into all sorts of sync and other problems with the audio too. To top it all off, my wife thinks 16/44.1 iTunes sounds better than anything save Redbook upscaled to DSD.

 

Waaaa! This is like the lost weekend from heck...

 

-Paul

 

 

Turns out that the Apple TV accessing an iTunes database is one heck of a lot easer to use. A *lot* more work to setup, but the WAF is many times greater with the ATV right now.

 

-Paul

[dallasjustice]

Actually, I am rather hoping that J. River and Roon get into a competition, but that's just dreaming.

 

I totally agree competition would be good for everyone. However, I doubt Roon wants to compete directly with Jriver. If Roon does try to compete with Jriver, they would be the first software company to do it.

 

If Jremote is the primary reason for Jriver, then I could understand the interest. I like Jremote too but I am sure it could be improved. And I totally would be interested in something to improve my meta data without a lot of heavy lifting.

 

For me, video, Cable TV, multiple zones, audio analysis, MCH convolution, excellent volume control and the stability of Jriver are going to be irreplaceable. The last thing I need is to run two apps at once to enjoy music.

 

I don't subscribe to Ted's premise that all bit perfect players sound different, unless we are talking about different filters.

[robdarling]

I must say I'm disappointed you won't be supporting UPnP Renderers...

 

Being able to play to Sonore and Linn and Naim and PS Audio and Marantz and Lumin and all the rest would have been a great functionality I would think.

 

 

Don't fear... by the end of the month we will be able to firmly announce our first partners who will be implementing our third party streaming protocol and will keep working to bring in more.

 

We want to create the stability and power that come from an integrated ecosystem while giving users flexibility to mix and match and choose their hardware. Just give us some time.

[4est]

Thank you Ted, you would know more than I. I really have little interest in yet another sound engine. It was just a hope.

 

It's looking more and more like Roon is a full music player (i.e like JRIver), which will be evaluated not only on its unique metadata gathering but also on its sound quality ("HQplayer is better than JRIver is better than iTunes", etc etc). As we know, bit perfect players sound different, and Roon will be entering that debate contest. Get your popcorn ready.

 

4est, I bet sound engines like Jplay will play with Roon (set Roon's output to JPlay ASIO as opposed to some DAC driver), but doubt HQplayer would. It's GUI is not exactly separated from its engine. Jussi?

[Always.Learning]

Rob--

 

Thanks for the continuing stream of info. With regard to partnering with third parties, my guess is that you would find a potentially significant customer base out there from folks who have Aurender, Aries, Linn, Lumin, and other similar devices. These are people who already tend to have very large libraries of music and who would appreciate superior software for managing/browsing their libraries. Looking forward to your announcements regarding third party partners and hope you continue working in that direction.

[billg]

PS Audio Directstream!