BACCH Sound Processor - Anyone Else Here Tried This?

[Artifex]

The Bacch-SP 3D Sound Experience | Stereophile.com

 

From the BACCH website:

 

The BACCH®-SP (SP stands for Stereo Purifier) features the spectrally uncolored optimal crosstalk cancellation technology, BACCH®, developed by Professor Edgar Choueiri. Professor Edgar Choueiri is a Professor of Applied Physics at the Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Department of Princeton University, and Associated Faculty at the Department of Astrophysical Sciences, Program in Plasma Physics. He is also Director of Princeton University’s Engineering Physics Program and Chief Scientist at the university’s Electric Propulsion and Plasma Dynamics Lab, a recognized center of excellence in research in the field of advanced spacecraft propulsion. He is also the Director of Princeton’s 3D Audio and Applied Acoustics (3D3A) Lab and the President of Theoretica Applied Physics.

 

A couple of months ago, I had an amazing experience at the local distributors for the Bacch system in Hong Kong, and then, when I went back again last week, was again gobsmacked by it. However, given that I'm really nowhere near an expert, I'm wondering if anyone else here has tried this recently, as I'd really like to validate what I experienced!

 

I've noticed that there was an earlier thread on this a few years ago, started by Snilsen, but nothing else since then.

 

For those of you that haven't heard of this before, the BACCH system was created by a "rocket scientist" at Princeton University, and essentially removes loudspeaker crosstalk so completely that you hear exactly what a binaural microphone at the position of your head would have heard during the original recording session.

 

I was fairly skeptical of this prior to my visit to the distributor, but within 30 seconds of trying it out, realized that BACCH is truly something quite special.

 

We ran through most of the Chesky demonstration disc, and a few of the highlights were:

 

1. For musical (especially band) pieces, you really can identify exactly where the different instruments are in the soundstage - everything is so clearly delineated that it was more than a little spooky. Perhaps the best way to describe this would be that without the BACCH processing a band sounded like they were standing in a line on a stage between and slightly to each side of the speakers. With the BACCH turned on, suddenly it seemed like some of the musicians were (seriously) right up next to you, and some were further away than the speakers, and some were off to my immediate left or right. Utterly amazing.

 

2. The soundstage is so wide and "3D-like" that even though a two-speaker system is used, I could "hear" instruments coming from behind me!

 

3. With the Chesky distance tests, whenever he says the phrase "... right up beside you!", I could really hear his voice right up against my ears! Very very creepy... Like having headphones on instead of speakers, but without the in-head sound and an incredibly deep and wide soundstage.

 

The problems I noted though, were:

 

1. The price - in Hong Kong they are selling it for more than HKD300,000 - that's about USD50,000!

 

2. I think one would need a very treated room to use it effectively. The room the distributor had was almost perfectly dead (full absorption).

 

3. I think it really only works when you are in the pre-set-up listening position, i.e., this is a one-listener system.

 

4. It does require a bit of set-up, albeit a very quick one - they stuck little in-ear microphones in my ears, and took readings for about 5 minutes, after which we were off to the races!

 

5. I also think it requires true binaural recordings to work properly.

 

Again, I'm really not experienced enough to be able to say for certain, but I thought it was fantastic. I'd really like to hear the opinions of others who've also heard it themselves!

 

By the way, if any of you are based in Hong Kong, I highly encourage you to go check it out. The chap running the distribution company is incredibly friendly and knowledgeable. He runs this part of his business more like a hobby - he actually spent more than an hour just showing me the system even though I told him up front I wasn't likely to buy one (at least in the near-future!).

 

Art

[dallasjustice]

I've heard good things about it too. I made an inquiry about whether they were planning on offering a software only solution since there seemed to be an indication from the Hong Kong distributor they would do that. It turns out they aren't doing that. I think the functionality is too limited for my setup. The MCH/crossover functionality seems pretty limited compared with other top DSP softwares (only 3 channels). I know that the BACCH is an ambiophonics device designed to eliminate crosstalk, but it still needs to be way more flexible if they only offer the box.

 

Here's a good writeup:

http://digitalroomcorrection.hk/http___www.digitalroomcorrection.hk_/BACCH-SP.html

[prometheus]

Forgive me for reviving a two-year-old thread, but I work for Theoretica Applied Physics and wanted to bring to your attention that for the past several years we have indeed been working on a software solution. It is called BACCH-dSP and has just recently been released. It is a very powerful application for 3D audio rendering over both loudspeakers and headphones, and it also has a very advanced binaural mixer for content creators who want to produce binaural tracks. You can learn more about it here.

[fathairyman]

Forgive me for reviving a two-year-old thread, but I work for Theoretica Applied Physics and wanted to bring to your attention that for the past several years we have indeed been working on a software solution. It is called BACCH-dSP and has just recently been released. It is a very powerful application for 3D audio rendering over both loudspeakers and headphones, and it also has a very advanced binaural mixer for content creators who want to produce binaural tracks. You can learn more about it here.

 

 

I could not see any prices on the links - is there a link for that or can you give a rough indication.

[STC]

BACCH is based on crosstalk cancellation. The logarithm is superior to Ambiophonics.

 

I think the cheaper version of BACCH could be from Weiss soon.

[Fitzcaraldo215]

On March 18, 2017 at 7:47 AM, STC said:

BACCH is based on crosstalk cancellation. The logarithm is superior to Ambiophonics.

 

I think the cheaper version of BACCH could be from Weiss soon.

Interesting.  But, I think you mean "algorithm", not "logarithm".  We get it, though.

[Keith_W]

On 3/18/2017 at 10:47 PM, STC said:

BACCH is based on crosstalk cancellation. The logarithm is superior to Ambiophonics.

 

*algorithm. 

[STC]

5 hours ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Interesting.  But, I think you mean "algorithm", not "logarithm".  We get it, though.

My bad. 

On 3/18/2017 at 6:38 PM, fathairyman said:

 

 

I could not see any prices on the links - is there a link for that or can you give a rough indication.

I was informed that it was priced around $20K plus in US and $50K plus in Hong Kong. That was in 2014.

[prometheus]

For pricing info, just shoot us an email at [email protected].

[Yucca06]

I'm a big fan of quadraphonic sound, so getting an immersive experience with only 2 speakers would be really fantastic.

 

At the price of a good preamp/processor (say about $2-5000) it could be VERY interesting for many people (including me).

 

But at $20000 or more, I can't even dream of it...

 

^^ Prometheus, does it worth for me to shoot you an email ?

[STC]

You can always try Ambiophonics for free or as much as $125. 

 

 

[prometheus]

3 hours ago, Yucca06 said:

I'm a big fan of quadraphonic sound, so getting an immersive experience with only 2 speakers would be really fantastic.

 

At the price of a good preamp/processor (say about $2-5000) it could be VERY interesting for many people (including me).

 

But at $20000 or more, I can't even dream of it...

 

^^ Prometheus, does it worth for me to shoot you an email ?

 

Definitely worth an email.

[Yucca06]

1 hour ago, prometheus said:

 

Definitely worth an email.

 

You get mail 

 

After sending my question, I read the specs for your software on your site, and It seems that my I7, 16Go Ram hackintosh would be enough to make it work...

[Yucca06]

6 hours ago, STC said:

You can always try Ambiophonics for free or as much as $125. 

 

 

...I will also try ambiophonics. I already tried a few years ago, but it was with a PC/small loudspeakers, and I was not impressed...

the device from ambio4you is really better -say- that the hotto plugin ?

 

I didn't bought it years ago because they don't offer a balanced version and I have active speakers with only xlr inputs,  but I could use a rca/xlr cable (not perfect , but who knows...)

[STC]

4 hours ago, Yucca06 said:

...I will also try ambiophonics. I already tried a few years ago, but it was with a PC/small loudspeakers, and I was not impressed...

the device from ambio4you is really better -say- that the hotto plugin ?

 

I didn't bought it years ago because they don't offer a balanced version and I have active speakers with only xlr inputs,  but I could use a rca/xlr cable (not perfect , but who knows...)

 

I wasn't too successful with Hotto's plugin. So can't comment on that. 

 

Ambio4you and MiniDSP are identical hardware. The Ambio plugin is available for MiniDSP. 

 

The advantage of ambio4you or MiniDSP because you can play SACD or LP or anything that you want as it is connected after the preamp or the player via the RCA. And you don't need a PC for these. 

 

It takes time to understand the proper setting. Speakers width and the RACE setting are often misunderstood . Once, you get it right than you would never go back. Requires patience.