Hibernian Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Here is a link to an Enjoy The Music CES 2015 interview with Bruno Putzeys describing his new DAC, which will be available later on this summer as an internal plug-in to the Makua and also as a stand alone DAC. Both DACs will have Bluetooth streaming from your iPhone or Android phone / iPad as well as accepting Quad DSD / 32/385kHz PCM over USB. The external DAC should be 10dB quieter than the internal version. The external unit will also accept UpNP and DLNA, so you will be able to stream to the DAC from a Hard Drive or NAS without a computer, control it from your Tablet using an App. Bruno mentioned that it will take the DAC chip manufacturers approx 10 - 20 years to match these performance levels. We hope to have a more advanced prototype on display during the Newport Show at the end of May. Having a reference level phono stage & DAC and next year Tone Controls all in the Makua Preamp will certainly make for a v. clean stereo system. Distributor Of Excellence Link to comment
Hiro Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 An interesting DAC design that apparently converts everything to 1-bit DSD and uses multiple 1-bit DACs in parallel. Wish it could handle 128x & 256x DSD data streams without downsampling them though. Link to comment
cjf Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Would love to see him throw the DIY crowd another bone and offer these in the same fashion he did with the NCore Amps. Would be a fun project to play with My Audio System -Last Updated May 20 2021 Link to comment
madaboutaudio Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Some disussion over at this thread: DIYHiFi.org • View topic - Thoughts on Bruno's new PWM DAC? Alleged to have breach some TI/BB patents? Link to comment
Hiro Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Some disussion over at this thread:DIYHiFi.org • View topic - Thoughts on Bruno's new PWM DAC? Alleged to have breach some TI/BB patents? The usual anti class-D crowd. Link to comment
occamsrazor Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Would love to see him throw the DIY crowd another bone and offer these in the same fashion he did with the NCore Amps. Would be a fun project to play with +1..... I love my DIY Ncore monoblocks, I would just love to have a Bruno-designed DAC to go with them. Sadly his commercial DAC is way above my price-league. Mac Mini > RME ADI-2 DAC > Hypex Ncore monoblocks > ATC SCM-11 speakers & C1 subwoofer Link to comment
audio.bill Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I haven't seen any mention of the pricing of Bruno's upcoming DAC - does anyone have any idea on expected pricing to share? TIA! Link to comment
Sam Lord Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Would love to see him throw the DIY crowd another bone and offer these in the same fashion he did with the NCore Amps. Would be a fun project to play with +1..... I love my DIY Ncore monoblocks, I would just love to have a Bruno-designed DAC to go with them. Sadly his commercial DAC is way above my price-league. I don't think Hypex made any significant profit from the kits, it has really been just a gift and encouragement for the DIY community. I expect OEM versions of the DAC DAC board to become available and result in several bargains like other Hypex-based gear, giving affordable options. OTOH maybe not: the quality of affordable DACs just keeps soaring; there is no end to the competition in this area. Expensive class AB and tube amps are going to really suffer compared to the superbly-tweaked Hypex-based amps. It will be interesting to see how Benchmark's amp holds up. It seems to be a superbly-designed Class AB with much better feedback implementation than done before, and many times cheaper than the multi-loop Halcro designs. I haven't seen any mention of the pricing of Bruno's upcoming DAC - does anyone have any idea on expected pricing to share? TIA! I think On A Higher Note's website has the expected prices, IIRC they're high: around $4-5k for the installed board in the Makua and maybe $15k for the outboard unit. EDIT: Hmm, not there. I saw it somewhere, maybe a CES show report like Enjoy the Music's. The price ranges are quoted someplace. Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position. Link to comment
occamsrazor Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I don't think Hypex made any significant profit from the kits, it has really been just a gift and encouragement for the DIY community. Indeed, it was great gesture and a great bargain. I expect OEM versions of the DAC DAC board to become available and result in several bargains like other Hypex-based gear, giving affordable options. OTOH maybe not I certainly hope so, I'd love a DIY Bruno DAC. Though I haven't heard any indication that it's going to happen Mac Mini > RME ADI-2 DAC > Hypex Ncore monoblocks > ATC SCM-11 speakers & C1 subwoofer Link to comment
Hibernian Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't think Hypex made any significant profit from the kits, it has really been just a gift and encouragement for the DIY community. I expect OEM versions of the DAC DAC board to become available and result in several bargains like other Hypex-based gear, giving affordable options. OTOH maybe not: the quality of affordable DACs just keeps soaring; there is no end to the competition in this area. Expensive class AB and tube amps are going to really suffer compared to the superbly-tweaked Hypex-based amps. It will be interesting to see how Benchmark's amp holds up. It seems to be a superbly-designed Class AB with much better feedback implementation than done before, and many times cheaper than the multi-loop Halcro designs. I think On A Higher Note's website has the expected prices, IIRC they're high: around $4-5k for the installed board in the Makua and maybe $15k for the outboard unit. EDIT: Hmm, not there. I saw it somewhere, maybe a CES show report like Enjoy the Music's. The price ranges are quoted someplace. Sorry Mola Mola have not been able to share pricing with us yet as the final product is too far away from completion. We are expecting delivery sometime around the summer, but that could easily stretch to Autumn. Distributor Of Excellence Link to comment
Sam Lord Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Thanks. Features have been added to the unit during development, and I hope this is a reason for the delay. I do think about the Makua preamp in my dreams...maybe someday. I need to finish my nCore chassis first. Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position. Link to comment
cjf Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I don't think Hypex made any significant profit from the kits, it has really been just a gift and encouragement for the DIY community. I think On A Higher Note's website has the expected prices, IIRC they're high: around $4-5k for the installed board in the Makua and maybe $15k for the outboard unit. Damn shame really, one would think that the price to Hypex to build one of these DACs is only a quarter to half of what they are probably considering selling it for. The possible built price of the add on DAC to the Makua hints at what the board itself is worth. I would bet that the number of people willing to drop $15K on a DAC is much smaller then that of those willing to go the DIY route at a fraction of the cost. My Audio System -Last Updated May 20 2021 Link to comment
matthias Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I certainly hope so, I'd love a DIY Bruno DAC. Though I haven't heard any indication that it's going to happen I do not think that Bruno will offer his DAC to the DIY community. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Hiro Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I do not think that Bruno will offer his DAC to the DIY community. Matt If someone from the DIY community built this DAC and started selling it for pennies on the dollar, the device would disrupt the market. Link to comment
matthias Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 If someone from the DIY community built this DAC and started selling it for pennies on the dollar, the device would disrupt the market. The best example is the NC1200 module in the Kaluga. AFAIK, this module has never been offered for DIYs, but is available on an OEM basis for other manufacturers. Perhaps Bruno will sell his DAC module as OEM, but other manufacturers will charge approximately the same price for, so no benefit for the end consumer. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
cjf Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 If someone from the DIY community built this DAC and started selling it for pennies on the dollar, the device would disrupt the market. Well then, lets get started Nothing wrong with disrupting the market in my opinion. My Audio System -Last Updated May 20 2021 Link to comment
matthias Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Well then, lets get started Nothing wrong with disrupting the market in my opinion. IMO, for lovers of DSD the concept of Miskas DSC1 or soon DSC2 is much better than the Mola Mola DAC. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 If someone from the DIY community built this DAC and started selling it for pennies on the dollar, the device would disrupt the market. Therein lies the problem. Who wants to build a product and make pennies in profit? It's tough to support even the most modest lifestyle for pennies. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
matthias Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Therein lies the problem. Who wants to build a product and make pennies in profit? It's tough to support even the most modest lifestyle for pennies. + 1 Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Hiro Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 IMO, for lovers of DSD the concept of Miskas DSC1 or soon DSC2 is much better than the Mola Mola DAC. Matt AFAIK, Miska's DSC1 DAC is very similar to Bruno's 1-bit/thermometer code DAC. The main advantage of Miska's design is of course that his DAC can actually do true NOS playback of DSD. Link to comment
Hiro Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Therein lies the problem. Who wants to build a product and make pennies in profit? It's tough to support even the most modest lifestyle for pennies. If some DIYer could build such a DAC for pennies, then he wouldn't need to charge an arm an a leg for it. Another idea for lowering the development costs and thus the price of your device is through using crowdfunding money. Link to comment
matthias Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 AFAIK, Miska's DSC1 DAC is very similar to Bruno's 1-bit/thermometer code DAC. The main advantage of Miska's design is of course that his DAC can actually do true NOS playback of DSD. AFAIK, the Mola Mola DAC converts all DSD and PCM to 3,125MHz. "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Hiro Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 AFAIK, the Mola Mola DAC converts all DSD and PCM to 3,125MHz. True, but it then converts it to 1-bit data stream and uses 1-bit/thermometer code D/A conversion. The last step is similar to Miska's approach, I believe. Link to comment
matthias Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 True, but it then converts it to 1-bit data stream and uses 1-bit/thermometer code D/A conversion. The last step is similar to Miska's approach, I believe. Yes, but all steps before the last step are better done by software in a computer. "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Yes, but all steps before the last step are better done by software in a computer. Interesting opinion :~) Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
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