Artifex Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Hi folks! My system has been purely computer-based digital from the start - initially with iTunes tracks and more recently with hi-resolution files from HDTracks and the like. I don't think I've purchased any physical media in almost 10 years... However, I really like DSD, and given the dearth of sites selling DSD downloads (especially outside of the US, e.g. Acoustic Sounds' Super HiRez doesn't sell to customers outside the US and Canada), I've been toying with the idea of just buying SACDs and ripping them to DSD files. What's the best way and best equipment to use to do this? I already have a decent DAC (PS Audio Directstream), so if it's a transport recommendation I probably don't need a super-highend one with a built-in DAC... But I'm open to all ideas! Many thanks in advance for any advice. Art p.s. My setup is Mac Mini based (with an Uptone Audio LPS and MMK to be installed when I get some time!), with my current music files accessed via wired LAN from another Mac Mini with an external RAID. Artifex Searching for Good Sounds in China! Link to comment
Synfreak Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Art, currently the only way to get the DSD data off of SACDs is to use a "modified" Playsatation 3. see: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-ripping-using-your-ps3-part-2-a-7495/ As these need to be equipped with an ancient software version AND SACD playback, the chance in getting such a unit isn't that good - and they are not very reliable too ... But MrWicked (the inventor of the PS3 ripping method) is currently working on a "USB drive" solution, so - may be - it would be a good idea to wait a few months and see how the thing goes. see: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/funding-making-sacd-ripping-available-through-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-22124/ Esoterc SA-60 / Foobar2000 -> Mytek Stereo 192 DSD / Audio-GD NFB 28.38 -> MEG RL922K / AKG K500 / AKG K1000 / Audioquest Nighthawk / OPPO PM-2 / Sennheiser HD800 / Sennheiser Surrounder / Sony MA900 / STAX SR-303+SRM-323II Link to comment
Artifex Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 Dear Synfreak, Many thanks! I hadn't realized that! And here I thought it was no different from ripping a CD or DVD! Art Artifex Searching for Good Sounds in China! Link to comment
Skeptic Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 CDs, DVDs, and even Blu-rays are all relatively easy to rip. SACDs are the exception because there are no drives available for computers which will read an SACD disc. The PlayStation 3 can be used for ripping SACD discs because it has a Blu-ray drive which can read SACD discs, and unlike most SACD players, it is essentially a computer that runs on a modified version of FreeBSD. On the older versions of the PS3 operating system, people figured out a way of running custom (unsigned) applications, one of which is written to rip SACD discs to a connected USB drive or networked PC. There are a number of issues with this, primarily: Newer revisions of the PS3 hardware removed SACD support as a cost-reducing measure Older PS3 hardware with SACD support is quite unreliable, and a large number of these systems are "dead" Most of the working systems with this older SACD-capable drive have been updated to newer versions of the OS which prevents custom applications from being run on the system. (since its primary function was as a games console, and newer games required the latest OS to run) The solution that is being worked on will take the optical drive out of these PS3 systems, and put it in an enclosure which allows it to be connected to a computer via USB. The great thing about it is that there should be a large number of systems which are either dead, or unable to run custom applications, but the optical drive is still perfectly functional. So rather than it being very difficult to find a suitable system for ripping SACDs, you should be able to pick up an inexpensive "dead" system and salvage the drive. Link to comment
Artifex Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 This thread has resulted in me spending the weekend trying to understand how to do this. First step though - will need to find one of these old PS3s! Artifex Searching for Good Sounds in China! Link to comment
gmgraves Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 CDs, DVDs, and even Blu-rays are all relatively easy to rip.SACDs are the exception because there are no drives available for computers which will read an SACD disc. I suspect that it's not the drive (certainly a blu-ray drive can read and track the data on the disc), it's just that the disc-reading software in the computer doesn't know what to do with the data when it gets it as it doesn't recognize the SACD as any known format. George Link to comment
caseyse Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 You can still find new and used PS3 systems with the older firmware required. For those skilled, a PS3 that has updated firmware could be reverted back to the older firmware via some soldering allowing for reflashing of the required older firmware. The problem with the PS3 was that the original thermal paste was drying out after about 3 years. Old thermal paste and heavy gaming would result in the Cell CPU or RSX GPU overheating causing the solder to crack on these BGA chip pins. I suspect one using these older PS3 only for ripping SACDs would not experience this problem. It's heavy gaming taxing the CPU and GPU resulting in the overheating issues. I purchased four new PS3 systems with the older firmware just for SACD ripping. I have modified two for ripping and have only used one, keeping the three in reserve. Although new units, I did some preventive maintenance on the two that I modified for ripping. I installed one of the higher flowing fans purchased from eBay. I also replaced the dried thermal paste on the CPU and GPU with some Arctic Silver 5, I upgraded the thermal pads on the other chips, and I drilled holes in the bottom of the plastic case just under the fan to provide added air flow. I verified my units had the newer more efficient power supplies, otherwise I would have replaced these to further reduce heat within the case. The last and least significant change was swapping the hard drive for a cheap SSD to further reduce heat. I have also purchased a few replacement Blu ray laser diodes as these do eventually burn out. I have ripped over 180 SACDs with the one PS3 and it's still going strong. I purchase the other 3 as spares thinking these were the only devices that would ever rip SACDs, but it's highly possible my one PS3 will be all I'll need into the future. Link to comment
JimSatala77 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Is there anywhere to download rips other than acoustic sounds at 25 bucks a piece Link to comment
mark_chat Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The downloads are still expensive and often cheaper to just buy the disc. I have now archived all of my SACD to iso backups, so if anyone in the UK is in need of a 60GB/FW3.55 ready to rip PS3, then let me know, as I plan to sell mine. Link to comment
Fitzcaraldo215 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I suspect that it's not the drive (certainly a blu-ray drive can read and track the data on the disc), it's just that the disc-reading software in the computer doesn't know what to do with the data when it gets it as it doesn't recognize the SACD as any known format. No. It is the drive itself. Sony incorporated a special hardware pit width modulation scheme into SACD discs and the drives as an added layer of copy protection for the hi rez DSD layer. Other drives, like standard BD drives, cannot read or decode this, although the standard rez RBCD layer on SACDs is not copy protected and it is readable by any CD player. In old PS3s, the decoded, DRM-free DSD signal was then processed by internal software, which was hacked. A later mod to the PS3 OS then deeply burried access to the decoded DSD bitstream, rendering it unhackable. Also, no OS rollbacks were permitted once beyond the hackable release level, as Sony had discovered the vulnerability and closed the barn door. Consequently, only certain old PS3s which had not been updated beyond a certain point were usable with the ripping hack. A skilled technician can perform the OS rollback on certain older machines. And, now, Mr. Wicked is working on his new scheme to use just the old PS3 drives in a new box, avoiding the PS3 and its OS update issues. You can read all about this in various threads here and elsewhere. Link to comment
Jud Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 No. It is the drive itself. Sony incorporated a special hardware pit width modulation scheme into SACD discs and the drives as an added layer of copy protection for the hi rez DSD layer. Other drives, like standard BD drives, cannot read or decode this, although the standard rez RBCD layer on SACDs is not copy protected and it is readable by any CD player. In old PS3s, the decoded, DRM-free DSD signal was then processed by internal software, which was hacked. A later mod to the PS3 OS then deeply burried access to the decoded DSD bitstream, rendering it unhackable. Also, no OS rollbacks were permitted once beyond the hackable release level, as Sony had discovered the vulnerability and closed the barn door. Consequently, only certain old PS3s which had not been updated beyond a certain point were usable with the ripping hack. A skilled technician can perform the OS rollback on certain older machines. And, now, Mr. Wicked is working on his new scheme to use just the old PS3 drives in a new box, avoiding the PS3 and its OS update issues. You can read all about this in various threads here and elsewhere. Very nicely explained. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
astrotoy Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Is there anywhere to download rips other than acoustic sounds at 25 bucks a piece NativeDSD sells stereo and mch files (and combos of both). AFAIK they do not come from rips of SACD's but from the master files which in most cases were used to generate the SACD. So you are closer to the original recordings with the NativeDSD files. Unfortunately (since I have ripped over 500 SACD's) in the few comparisons I have done, the files I bought from NativeDSD sound a little better than the equivalent rips from the SACD. I haven't bitten the bullet and bought replacement downloads for the many SACD rips I have done that are available from NativeDSD. One good thing is that with the plummet of the Euro wrt the Dollar, the price of the downloads from NativeDSD have gone down also (still in the mid $20 range). I haven't bought any downloads from Acoustic Sounds yet. Larry Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,LyraSkala+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105 Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps; Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-1.8KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50+TBripped files Link to comment
Allan F Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 A later mod to the PS3 OS then deeply burried access to the decoded DSD bitstream, rendering it unhackable. Also, no OS rollbacks were permitted once beyond the hackable release level, as Sony had discovered the vulnerability and closed the barn door. Consequently, only certain old PS3s which had not been updated beyond a certain point were usable with the ripping hack. A skilled technician can perform the OS rollback on certain older machines. Officially or technically, it is referred to as Firmware (FW) as opposed to OS. Only suitable PS3 units with FW3.55 or earlier can be used to rip SACDs. I mention this for newbies who may be looking for a PS3 that will do the job. "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Fitzcaraldo215 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Officially or technically, it is referred to as Firmware (FW) as opposed to OS. Only suitable PS3 units with FW3.55 or earlier can be used to rip SACDs. I mention this for newbies who may be looking for a PS3 that will do the job. Details, details. But, you are right. It is technically firmware. Thanks. Link to comment
seeteeyou Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/sacd-ripping-using-your-ps3-part-2-a-7495/ From the signature of ted_b here https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3487125/SACD%20ripper%20primer%20v4.0.1.pdf Link to comment
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