IKEA bamboo cutting board and Herbie's Audio Lab Tenderfeet

[esimms86]

I recently purchased 3 IKEA bamboo cutting boards and 12+ HAL Tenderfeet and installed/placed them under my PS Audio P5 power conditioner and Marantz PM KI integrated amplifier. For less than the price of a set of Stillpoint Mini's for one component, I felt that this would be a good way to trial anti-resonance products in my system. For the record, my living room system, in addition to the aforementioned components, also has the Auralic ARIES and Auralic Vega connected via a Paul Pang usb cable. Each cutting board and Tenderfoot cost a meager 13.99 USD apiece.

 

I have quite happily surprised to hear much more coherently integrated bass in my system, along with a slight improvement in treble detail. The music just seems to come together in a much more obvious(shall I say, organic) and logical way, if that makes any sense. At this point, I don't feel that I need to go any further down the rabbit hole with system tweaks. In truth, I expect that my future system tweaks will come in the form of Auralic software upgrades.

 

My main system, btw, is the XXHE PC>Light Harmonics Lightspeed usb cable>Phasure NOS1a DAC>Kevin Gilmore Blue Hawaii amplifier(not the BHSE but, rather, its predecessor of which only 12 were ever made before parts became unavailable)>Stax SR009 headphones. For my money, it doesn't get any better than that.

 

Esau

[lmf22]

The IKEA bamboo boards are really nice. I have them under all of my components (integrated amp, DAC, power conditioner). I read about them in an The Audio Beat article: The Best Things in Life Are (Almost) Free: IKEA's Aptitlig Chopping Boards - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

The article also explains why bamboo is so good. The article also mentioned the use of wooden block feet (like the ones that Cardas and Ayre makes), so that's something else to try if you want to experiment.

 

You will get even better results if you replace the Tenderfeet with Stillpoints. I used to have Tenderfeet between the components and bamboo boards, and now have Stillpoints Ultra SS and Ultra Mini. Of course, the Stillpoints costs significantly more than Tenderfeet, and some people may not think is worth it.

[madaboutaudio]

Hi there,

 

I have also tried out putting a piece of Ikea Aptitlig of under my Audio-Gd Master 7 with 4 x rubber cushions/supports bought from regular hardware store/supermarket. Previous surface was the glass desktop from Ikea.

 

Subjective findings:

There's a improvement in overall coherency

Bass has more roundness and Treble has more extension. Improvement to depth of soundstage.

 

Just US$24 for a good improvement.

[mwheelerk]

I've tried various materials from time to time below various components. Several times I have used solid piece of granite (they were actually cheese cutting boards and I have at times used silicone pot coasters usually 2 a 8"x8" square about 1/2" thick.

[robocop]

Bamboo cutting boards would have to be the best kept secret for HiFi. I replaced 4 x 30 mm black granite shelves with the Butchers block bamboo boards and what an improvement. I think bamboo racks and speaker stands are the order of day. Some are appearing on the market already. Take this from someone who use to design and manufacture racks and stands and has tried numerous shelf materials.

 

Check this blog: The Best Things in Life Are (Almost) Free: IKEA's Aptitlig Chopping Boards - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

 

Robert

[mayhem13]

Bamboo cutting boards would have to be the best kept secret for HiFi. I replaced 4 x 30 mm black granite shelves with the Butchers block bamboo boards and what an improvement. I think bamboo racks and speaker stands are the order of day. Some are appearing on the market already. Take this from someone who use to design and manufacture racks and stands and has tried numerous shelf materials.

 

Check this blog: The Best Things in Life Are (Almost) Free: IKEA's Aptitlig Chopping Boards - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

 

Robert

 

Been building speaker cabinets from engineered Bamboo plywood for a Few years now. Great stuff but not exactly cheap when compared to Baltic Birch. I source mine from local suppliers who get it from CaliBamboo.

[madaboutaudio]

Bamboo cutting boards would have to be the best kept secret for HiFi. I replaced 4 x 30 mm black granite shelves with the Butchers block bamboo boards and what an improvement. I think bamboo racks and speaker stands are the order of day. Some are appearing on the market already. Take this from someone who use to design and manufacture racks and stands and has tried numerous shelf materials.

 

Check this blog: The Best Things in Life Are (Almost) Free: IKEA's Aptitlig Chopping Boards - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

 

Robert

 

Heres an article on 6moons where they have custom made bamboo base specially designed for isolating audiophile equipment:

6moons audio reviews: Level Audio accessories

 

think the ikea is doing the same for less than 1/10th the cost.

[robbbby]

Interesting. I was just shopping for some maple cutting boards for my gear but I can buy all the bamboo pieces I need for less than 1 maple board.

I'm a bit confused though about coupling and isolation and when/where i'm supposed to use them.

The audiobeat article says you have to couple your equipment to the boards, so where do I use isolation?

 

All my gear is on my hardwood floor, I don't like having tall racks and like to keep my gear low. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but would the proper way to set it up for my situation be to have isolation between my floors and the board, and then coupling between my board and equipment, something like this...

 

hardwood floor > isolation > bamboo board > coupling > equipment

[madaboutaudio]

Interesting. I was just shopping for some maple cutting boards for my gear but I can buy all the bamboo pieces I need for less than 1 maple board.

I'm a bit confused though about coupling and isolation and when/where i'm supposed to use them.

The audiobeat article says you have to couple your equipment to the boards, so where do I use isolation?

 

All my gear is on my hardwood floor, I don't like having tall racks and like to keep my gear low. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but would the proper way to set it up for my situation be to have isolation between my floors and the board, and then coupling between my board and equipment, something like this...

 

hardwood floor > isolation > bamboo board > coupling > equipment

 

this article should have some valuable information on the subject:

 

High End Audio - Managing vibration

[kennyb123]

I posted on this a while ago here.

 

I now have IKEA Aptitlig bamboo cutting boards under all my components. Also, I ended up swapping bamboo cutting boards for the bamboo drink coasters under my speakers. This swap delivered a substantial improvement. Thicker is better - though I tried not to go too thick under the speakers so as to not raise the tweeter height too much.

 

I now have close to $200 invested in bamboo and yet I still think it's one of the biggest bangs for the buck in audio.

[accwai]

I posted on this a while ago here.

 

Got mine after reading that. Thank you very much. And don't forget to put one under the power bar.

[AudioDoctor]

You guys are kidding me? I have one of these I use as a cutting board. Guess I better go get some more.

[madaboutaudio]

here's some more articles I found on the subject:

 

Tweak-Fi Reviews - Tweak-Fi

 

Tweak-Fi Reviews - Tweak-Fi

[StephenJK]

I've ordered material so that I can build a stereo rack from "hard white", or rock maple. I was going to make maple cutting boards but it was cheaper and easier to order them already made but unfinished. This is with a total of eight 18 x 20 x 1-1/2 shelves oriented with a face grain.

 

I sent an email to Bright Star and got a great response on how to do the isolation. Their recommendation was to have isolation feet between the rack and the shelves (which I had planned on doing) as well as isolation between the equipment and the shelves.

 

I'm not sure about the second part, things like a big heavy amplifier might be difficult to do with feet that can take the weight but all other components will be possible.

 

Maybe I'll keep a photo record of the construction for posting at a later date.

[robocop]

I have also tried out putting a piece of Ikea Aptitlig of under my Audio-Gd Master 7 with 4 x rubber cushions/supports bought from regular hardware store/supermarket.

From madaboutaudio.

 

Rubber and any sorbothane type materials are bad news for sound as decouplers and even including feet that come with components. Try using small bamboo blocks say 15mm x 20mm x 30mm. The requirement of the foot decoupler is to remove energy from the component to ground. Rubber especially acts more like an insulator containing energy within the component. Sorbothanes tend to deaden the sound and dull the treble quite considerably on some CD players for example. Rigid materials are preferable solid maple, aluminium, stainless steel, bamboo. Mind you this is in context with your shelf and rack design structure and finally your floor make and material.

 

Robert

[AudioDoctor]

After an initial trial with the Bamboo cutting board I had in the house already, I went to IKEA and bought a few more of the large 3 layer blocks. I am considering cutting one of them in half, one for each speaker, one for my Mini/External Drive, one for my DAC, and one for my Marantz Reciever. What I can't figure out is which "feet" to use. I found these at Music Direct, and they seem to fit the bill, but I am no expert.

 

AUDIO SELECTIONS LARGE CONE BLACK (1.25" TALL) at Music Direct

 

and

 

AUDIO SELECTIONS SMALL SPIKE BLACK (EA) at Music Direct

 

Thoughts?

[InfernoSTi]

There are some nice Herbie's products that can help between things. I would recommend browsing their web page. I have a variety of items and have found them to be excellent.

[AudioDoctor]

There are some nice Herbie's products that can help between things. I would recommend browsing their web page. I have a variety of items and have found them to be excellent.

 

I have a Herbies turntable mat on my SL1200, and I am happy with it. However it is my understanding that the purpose of the Bamboo is to be coupled to the equipment so it can absorb the vibrations. The Herbies Tenderfeet look like isolation feet, not coupling feet. IMO of course, I may be wrong.

[InfernoSTi]

I have a Herbies turntable mat on my SL1200, and I am happy with it. However it is my understanding that the purpose of the Bamboo is to be coupled to the equipment so it can absorb the vibrations. The Herbies Tenderfeet look like isolation feet, not coupling feet. IMO of course, I may be wrong.

 

I supposed there are many ways to achieve decoupling. The OP used Herbie's Tenderfeet between the bamboo and the amp, for example. This would be isolation rather than coupling, however.

 

The "Barry D" thread discusses the idea of not coupling the equipment to the floor/rack but finding ways to separate it (isolate). That thread is linked already (here it is again focused on the start of the isolation/coupling discussion) and may be an interesting read if you haven't read it yet.

 

So the question is coupling or isolation?

 

I found the Herbie's "gliders" to provide superior performance to coupling spikes, for example. So I'm not just suggesting the Tenderfeet.

 

John

[AudioDoctor]

The author of the article said to couple the equipment to the boards.

 

" Of course, the Aptitligs will only do their thang if you actually get the energy out of the electronics in the first place -- and that means using couplers."

[InfernoSTi]

I got the exact opposite out of Barry's comments.

 

Isolation should not be confused with coupling, which is its direct opposite.

Unfortunately, what many manufacturers refer to as "isolators" are in fact couplers. Many reviewers, echoing what they see in the manufacturer's literature, help propagate the misunderstanding.

 

Cones, spikes, wooden blocks and other solid, non-moving materials are couplers. In my experience, *anything* you put atop (or under) a component will *change* its sound. I say "change" deliberately, to differentiate from "improve". In my experience, while such can be used to alter the sonics, perhaps even to a given listener's liking, these changes are somewhat random. What is occurring with couplers is, in my view, not a "draining" of vibrations but a change in the component chassis' resonance.

 

To my mind, when something is drained, the result should be less of it in the place from which it has been drained. That happens with my kitchen sink but in my view, it doesn't happen with audio components. All that has occurred is a change in the component chassis' resonance. (If anything has been "drained", I believe that would be the consumer's wallet. ;-})

 

Materials like Sorbothane and other rubbery pucks aren't exactly what I'd call isolators either. According to a very interesting article by Shannon Dickson several years ago, isolation *begins* at ~1.4x the resonant frequency of the isolator. My experience has been that the most effective isolators will have resonance frequencies in the low single digits. With isolation beginning at ~1.4x this frequency, the result is a roll off (i.e., isolation) that begins well below the audible range, with increasing isolation as frequency goes up.

 

With something like a good roller bearing or air bearing design, the resonance, hopefully around 3 Hz or less, will result in isolation (roll off) beginning at under 5 Hz. Rubbery materials tend to have much higher resonances, located somewhere within the audible bass or mid-bass range. With such *partial* isolators, roll off will hence *begin* just above that region. But because the resonance is in the audible range, there will also tend to be an increase at that point in the frequency range (aka somewhat bloated bass).

 

In addition to resonance frequency, the other thing that is important with isolators is the degree of damping on the resonance. In other words, how quickly said resonance, once excited, settles down. There is an *inverse* relationship between the amount of damping and how steep the roll off above resonance is. Put another way, the more the resonance is damped, the *shallower* the roll off. A shallower roll off translates to less isolation. A steeper roll off translates to more isolation. The most effective isolators therefore, will have the lowest resonance frequency with the lowest degree of damping on that resonance.

 

The rubbery footers tend to have a well damped resonance and in combination with the relatively high frequency at which the resonance occurs, this means they provide no real isolation in the bass, in fact tending to bloat the bass, and what isolation they do provide higher up in the range is meager due to the shallow roll off. In contrast, something like a well designed roller being can have a very low resonance with very little damping, resulting in isolation taking effect quickly, with the steeper roll off resulting in a greater *degree* of isolation. The best roller will be the one where the ball moves the slowest (lowest resonance frequency) and continues to roll for the longest time (least damping).

 

(Rollers are unusual in that they isolate in the horizontal and rotational planes but act as couplers in the vertical plane. This is why I like to combine them with air bearings, which will provide the isolation in the vertical plane. Interestingly, most ground born vibrations tend to occur in the horizontal plane.)

 

Coupling or isolation? For me, coupling is a means of coloring the sound to one's taste; a sort of mechanical EQ.

In contrast, proper isolation devices create results which are consistent and repeatable. To be clear, I don't believe isolation makes anything "better". What it does is *prevent* the performance degradation that results when ground born vibrations make their way to gear. Years ago, I said I have trouble accepting that a truck changing gears a quarter mile away or the wind or the ocean tide have any effect on my audio (and video) gear. What I have no trouble at all accepting are the benefits, in every area of sonics (and picture) I know how to describe, when ground born vibrations are blocked from entering components. I find isolation helps every component do a better job at "getting out of the way".

 

A bit more for those who might be interested.

 

Best regards,

Barry

Soundkeeper Recordings

Barry Diament Audio

 

 

I have spikes on the bottoms of my speakers that fit into the gliders that are on top of a piece of wood that is on top of the carpet. This decouples the speaker from the floor to a great degree. I would love to have a "better" decoupler, such as the very expensive Stillpoints but at up to $700 per I just don't see it happening. Given the "bargain' tone of this thread, I thought the gliders were a nice product to think about. Perhaps I'm missing something key. Please advise?

[AudioDoctor]

You're reading the wrong thing. Read the article about the bamboo cutting boards.

 

It seems to me that if you want to isolate you should not have to worry about the base your equipment stands on or, you're not isolating, your isolation scheme doesn't work, or you don't understand the meaning of the word isolation.

[robbbby]

anyone have any recommendations on what to do with heavy amps on the floor? My amps must weight ~100lbs each, stick them on a bamboo board directly on the floor? Elevate the board off the floor?

[AudioDoctor]

The bamboo is pointless unless you get the vibrations from the equipment into the bamboo board. That means coupling.

[InfernoSTi]

You're reading the wrong thing. Read the article about the bamboo cutting boards.

 

It seems to me that if you want to isolate you should not have to worry about the base your equipment stands on or, you're not isolating, your isolation scheme doesn't work, or you don't understand the meaning of the word isolation.

 

I reread the first post and it used bamboo and Herbie's Tenderfeet. I reread the second post and it recommended replacing the Herbie's Tenderfeet with Stillpoints (the expensive decouplers I mentioned in my second post). For clarity, I quoted from the link from the 10th post that actually discusses the difference between coupling and decoupling. I truly recommend reading that discussion on the difference between coupling and decoupling if you haven't.

 

I also reread your quote:

 

The author of the article said to couple the equipment to the boards.

 

" Of course, the Aptitligs will only do their thang if you actually get the energy out of the electronics in the first place -- and that means using couplers."

 

 

I went back to the source, found that quote, and am quoting the rest of that sentence because it is critical to a clear understanding of why I think there are words being thrown around somewhat randomly in that article:

 

"Of course, the Aptitligs will only do their thang if you actually get the energy out of the electronics in the first place -- and that means using couplers. Top choices would be Stillpoints Ultra Minis (still the best value in the whole Stillpoints range)..."

 

Please note that the top choice for a "coupler" would be the Stillpoints.

 

BUT...and this is the place I am confused by the article...the Stillpoints are DEcouplers, not couplers.

 

How can he call them a coupler when they are the top of the line decoupler? If those are the top choice and they happen to be the best decouplers, then it isn't about getting the energy into the bamboo. Or if it is about getting the energy into the bamboo, they wouldn't work at all. Either way, something is wrong with that quote you have referenced.

 

Just my two cents...