Why do High Def audio Files Play at a Lower Volume than CD quality files?

[parsonsnix]

I've downloaded a dozen or so High Def albums from HD Tracks and I notice that I have to turn the volume up on my Cambridge PreAmp almost to the max to get the sound at the same level as standard files 44/16 at -20db. Any thoughts as to what might cause this?

[goldsdad]

deleted

[goldsdad]

Superior mastering that isn't aimed at winning the loudness war? A 20 dB difference seems a bit extreme for that explanation, though.

[parsonsnix]

I'm all for superior mastering.....but I'm running out of the pre-amp's capacity. I'm not focused on playing music loud....I'm listening to jazz or acoustic music....at what I consider a reasonable volume.

[baddog]

Do you have some example of the HD Tracks albums that are significantly quieter than your redbook files? Some of us may have similar copies and can let you know if this is "normal" Personally I have not found this to be the case with my collection. The only differences in playback I have noticed is that some DSD albums are lower in volume, requiring me to turn up the pre amp a little. But its a little, not a lot. Having to turn any pre amp up to almost max seems to be an issue, where do you normally have the level for the pre amp for redbook files?

[wgscott]

They are quieter.

[AudioDoctor]

Ok so , lets start at the beginning, when you download the track from HD tracks, what is the very first step you take?

[esldude]

As already said, a few db for different mastering, but 20 db would be highly unusual. Even less likely for a dozen different recordings.

 

Audiodoctor has the right idea. Start at the beginning though maybe we don't quite need to go back to downloading at least not yet.

 

Some info about how you are playing this would help with some possible ideas. Computer type, playback software, manner in which files are getting to your pre-amp that sort of thing.

 

Also if you have other equipment to playback with, maybe even a smartphone or tablet using its analog out, that would be a good test. Does that other source also have this large 20 db difference in level?

 

Another way is to check out the files. You could open them in Audacity (free sound editor if you are familiar with it) and look at the level of the signals. See if they are all really that low in level.

 

Here is an example. Upper pair of tracks at normal level. Lower pair same tracks reduced 20 db. A quick visual way to see if the original files are really reduced that much. Click on image to make it larger.

 

[macuniverse]

I use jRiver's clip protection and adaptive volume (no DR change). It typically increases the volume around 4-6 dB for HD tracks. So, I would imagine, you should be increasing your amp volume by a similar amount.

[SoundQcar]

I just downloaded two albums in DSD64 from Acoustic Sounds that I also own on redbook. While I typically listen to them on redbook at 38 on my preamps volume, in DSD they needed 48-50 to achieve approximately the same loudness level at my listening chair.

 

Interesting....

[firedog]

The nature of DSD means that the standard is about -6db. So pretty typical that you have to turn a DSD download up to get equivalent loudness perception.

 

And that of course doesn't take into account that the DSD download is probably a different master from your Redbook source.

[Skeptic]

Superior mastering that isn't aimed at winning the loudness war? A 20 dB difference seems a bit extreme for that explanation, though.

The target average loudness for properly mastered content is -23 dBFS.

While I wouldn't expect the average level of a CD to be as extreme as -3 dBFS, there could certainly be 12dB of difference between a good/bad master, and then if you are converting DSD to PCM you lose another 6dB, which gets you close to 20dB quieter.

 

 

What I would suggest is to use a player like JRiver, which has R128 volume leveling (or something else with ReplayGain) that adjusts the average level of an album to the correct -23dB target.

 

However, that's going to bring the average level down, instead of making the quieter albums louder.

It fixes the problem of very variable volume levels across albums, but you can't do much other than replacing the amp if things won't go loud enough.

 

I use jRiver's clip protection and adaptive volume (no DR change). It typically increases the volume around 4-6 dB for HD tracks. So, I would imagine, you should be increasing your amp volume by a similar amount.

I don't recommend using adaptive volume unless you really need it.

In the peak normalization mode (the only one that doesn't compress dynamic range) it will make things louder, but the volume level will change a lot between albums, since tracks with lower dynamic range will play louder.

 

Peak normalization is the old system that was used for broadcast, and that's why this "loudness war" got started in the first place.

With the R128 system in use today, dynamic range has very little effect on volume level - everything gets adjusted to this -23dB average.