Article: Devialet Unleashes Phantom

[krass]

very interesting, I like (though it may be a tad too large to sit on a desktop ?)

 

I don't think you want to be sitting too close if the central gasket gives way at high volume

[AvilleAudio]

Devialet paid for my plane ticket, hotel, and lunch after the demonstration. Without this I wouldn't / couldn't make the trip to report on the Phantom to the CA Community.

 

That's what I assumed, but I thought it should be disclosed upfront by you or anyone else who submits an article or review. I appreciate the direct reply. As I continue to refine and improve my setup I appreciate the great resource that CA is! Thanks.

[krass]

Could someone explain how it is possible to get low bass that they are claming with such a small woofer inside a very small cabinet? I thought it takes a lot of mass to move a substantial amount of air to deliver deep, powerful bass! Inquiring mind wants to Know?

 

I don't think it needs mass, the speaker is just a type of piston displacing volume (rather quickly).

Force = mass x acceleration

 

the mass in the equation above is the effective mass of the air being displaced, the acceleration relates to how quickly it's being displaced.

the design relies on a huge amount of displacement at lower frequencies, so the peak accelerations are going to be very much higher than a traditional (larger) bass driver to get the same SPLs. therefore the required force acting on each driver is going to be very high too.

 

to achieve that you need lots of transducer wire, lots of magnet power, lots of current (all of them). So it's not mass you need per se, just loads of amps, the driver coils to handle it and driver/cone structure that doesn't disintegrate under the high loads.

Essentially I think it's just compensating for the much smaller cone by using a much bigger displacement so as to move the same volume of air.

 

the high displacements also explain why contra-acting driver makes sense, else at 20hz a single-sided design would be wobbling (or rolling?) it's way across the living room.....

 

does that make sense or am I talking rubbish ?

[Jud]

I don't think it needs mass, the speaker is just a type of piston displacing volume (rather quickly).

Force = mass x acceleration

 

the mass in the equation above is the effective mass of the air being displaced, the acceleration relates to how quickly it's being displaced.

the design relies on a huge amount of displacement at lower frequencies, so the peak accelerations are going to be very much higher than a traditional (larger) bass driver to get the same SPLs. therefore the required force acting on each driver is going to be very high too.

 

to achieve that you need lots of transducer wire, lots of magnet power, lots of current (all of them). So it's not mass you need per se, just loads of amps, the driver coils to handle it and driver/cone structure that doesn't disintegrate under the high loads.

Essentially I think it's just compensating for the much smaller cone by using a much bigger displacement so as to move the same volume of air.

 

the high displacements also explain why contra-acting driver makes sense, else at 20hz a single-sided design would be wobbling (or rolling?) it's way across the living room.....

 

does that make sense or am I talking rubbish ?

 

Sure, or more simply: A bass driver needs to move a lot of air. It can do that either by being large in cross-sectional area, or if not (as in the case of the Phantom), by having a large excursion, i.e., back-and-forth movement.

[Miska]

The industrial design of these is surreal, disturbing and awesome all at the same time...

 

First Naim comes out with Muso (also really cool), and now this. Where does this new all-in-one trend now come from?

 

I hope both win some entirely new people to high quality audio!

[mjm6]

Devialet paid for my plane ticket, hotel, and lunch after the demonstration. Without this I wouldn't / couldn't make the trip to report on the Phantom to the CA Community.

 

For the sake of (seemingly) independent journalism, it is absolutely critical that it be disclosed when a junket is made and the products reported on. I find it surprising that you didn't declare this initially in the article you wrote.

 

Be careful that you don't become a shill for too many manufacturers, or the loss of respect as an independent voice will soon follow.

 

As someone who has written product reviews for publications in the past (not audio), I can speak from a similar perspective, and feel it is imperative that a certain distance be maintained. Everyone has their own level of comfort with this, and I'm not saying that anything was done wrong at all. Just be thoughtful.

[mjm6]

Sure, or more simply: A bass driver needs to move a lot of air. It can do that either by being large in cross-sectional area, or if not (as in the case of the Phantom), by having a large excursion, i.e., back-and-forth movement.

 

I would expect this to result in a significant amount of bass bloat due the the time it takes for the drivers to move that far. It will be interesting to hear these at a show and see how they sound.

[boatheelmusic]

Didn't Bose do this already (small drivers, mucho equalization) in 1968?

 

No free lunch, guys!

[Jud]

I would expect this to result in a significant amount of bass bloat due the the time it takes for the drivers to move that far. It will be interesting to hear these at a show and see how they sound.

 

The drivers would have to move in time with the frequency/ies they reproduce, so that's not going to change from a larger driver.

[Jud]

The industrial design of these is surreal, disturbing and awesome all at the same time...

 

First Naim comes out with Muso (also really cool), and now this. Where does this new all-in-one trend now come from?

 

I hope both win some entirely new people to high quality audio!

 

Though at ~$2000 and ~$2500 US each, I don't see these scattered around folks' homes unless they have quite a bit of spare cash.

[earflappin]

Chris, could you comments on the Phantom set-up you heard? Did you listen to one or two Phantoms? Were they on stands or the floor? You state you were seated....just trying to visualize how they were configured. Thanks.

[earflappin]

Chris, can you describe the set up you auditioned? Was it two Phantoms in a typical stereo configuration? Were they on stands? Etc. Thanks.

[wdw]

For the sake of (seemingly) independent journalism, it is absolutely critical that it be disclosed when a junket is made and the products reported on. I find it surprising that you didn't declare this initially in the article you wrote.

 

Be careful that you don't become a shill for too many manufacturers, or the loss of respect as an independent voice will soon follow.

 

As someone who has written product reviews for publications in the past (not audio), I can speak from a similar perspective, and feel it is imperative that a certain distance be maintained. Everyone has their own level of comfort with this, and I'm not saying that anything was done wrong at all. Just be thoughtful.

 

Well, you have cahones...we all bow to the moral arbiter.

Here is a guy that has provided an incredible website on his own steam, created a site read world wide and filled with very useful information to an uncountable number of people but we all waiting by the phone in case you have a nascent objection to his integrity. WOW

[strat95]

Chris, your site is still messed up regarding number of posts shown when logged in vs. logged out. The counter at the top of the page for this article always shows 23 comments. The home page lists 37 comments. When logged out and on the article page 37 comments are visible. When logged in only 26 comments are visible. This makes it impossible to respond to the missing comments especially if you want to quote what someone else has written.

[Tog]

Very exciting and to my eyes it looks great.

 

It seems Devialet are aiming the product at the Linn, Naim, Cyrus end of the market rather than Bose and Co. If the sound quality lives up to the hype expect retail turbulence and a frenzied change of R&D direction from the competition.

 

Me - I think I want 2

 

Tog

[firedog]

Well, you have cahones...we all bow to the moral arbiter.

Here is a guy that has provided an incredible website on his own steam, created a site read world wide and filled with very useful information to an uncountable number of people but we all waiting by the phone in case you have a nascent objection to his integrity. WOW

 

I think your comment is out of line. When someone writes about a product, especially when they are given an exclusive, readers should be told under what conditions the trip was made. It doesn't matter that Chris started his own website. It's now a large influential site in its field. Readers don't have a personal relationship with Chris, so they should be made aware under what conditions such an article is being written. Otherwise they don't have a proper framework for evaluating the article.

 

Disclosure of such info only increases the readership's confidence in Chris; absence of disclosure will only promote cynicism and speculation about possible lack of objectivity on Chris' part.

[firedog]

Didn't Bose do this already (small drivers, mucho equalization) in 1968?

 

No free lunch, guys!

 

uh, no. basically none of the technology Devialet is using existed back then. Have you read the white paper linked to in the article?

Get a bit of knowledge about the technology before dissing and dismissing it.

[earflappin]

Chris, what was the set up you listened to? Two Phantoms sitting on stands ala a normal 2 channel set up? One Phantom on a conference table? I read that you were seated when listening.

[boatheelmusic]

uh, no. basically none of the technology Devialet is using existed back then. Have you read the white paper linked to in the article?

Get a bit of knowledge about the technology before dissing and dismissing it.

 

White Papers don't move air.

 

And linear, clean, low bass requires air to move.

 

Physics.

[Jud]

White Papers don't move air.

 

And linear, clean, low bass requires air to move.

 

Physics.

 

These are nothing like the Bose. Bose moved air with multiple close-set smaller drivers. Devialet does it with long driver excursion, controlling the distortion that might otherwise result with very powerful amplification and sophisticated DSP.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Chris, what was the set up you listened to? Two Phantoms sitting on stands ala a normal 2 channel set up? One Phantom on a conference table? I read that you were seated when listening.

Two Phantoms on a table. I was both seated and standing.

 

You should see the stands for the Phantom. They are awesome and perform heat dissipation as well. I can't wait to hear these on stands. The table setup was just for ease of demo even though we all acknowledged it was less than perfect for sound quality. Plus, Devialet wanted to demonstrate how good the speakers could sound sitting on a table.

[Dr Tone]

Chris, your site is still messed up regarding number of posts shown when logged in vs. logged out. The counter at the top of the page for this article always shows 23 comments. The home page lists 37 comments. When logged out and on the article page 37 comments are visible. When logged in only 26 comments are visible. This makes it impossible to respond to the missing comments especially if you want to quote what someone else has written.

 

I think they replies to reviews need to be approved and thus why the numbers differ temporarily.

[mjm6]

Well, you have cahones...we all bow to the moral arbiter.

Here is a guy that has provided an incredible website on his own steam, created a site read world wide and filled with very useful information to an uncountable number of people but we all waiting by the phone in case you have a nascent objection to his integrity. WOW

 

 

Yes, I absolutely do, because I have been in his shoes and am aware of the responsibility that publishing articles of this nature require to maintain editorial integrity.

 

Your reading comprehension may be lacking because of the inclination to skim through fora postings, so you may not have noted that I state that I did not say that anything improper has been done...

 

The internet is awash with sites that appear to have independence from the manufacturers, but simple observations prove that many are doing nothing more than reprocessing press releases. It has gotten so bad that it is showing up in printed magazines now, including well known audio industry magazines, in thinly veiled articles.

 

I'm suggesting that Chris has a much better reputation than that, and he should act to ensure he maintains it.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I think they replies to reviews need to be approved and thus why the numbers differ temporarily.

It's actually a cache issue behind the scenes. Once in a while I need to clear the cache to get the number of posts to match.

[Encore]

Could someone explain how it is possible to get low bass that they are claming with such a small woofer inside a very small cabinet? I thought it takes a lot of mass to move a substantial amount of air to deliver deep, powerful bass! Inquiring mind wants to Know?

 

When we talk about bass from our standard loudspeakers being omnidirectional, it may be so to some approximation and at some distance, but a normal bass driver in a box isn't a true monopole, which is a pulsating sphere.

 

The moment I saw the Phantom, the bass drivers and their constellation reminded me much more of a true monopole. And I suspect that this contributes to the efficiency.