eco_bach Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 have read this starter guide HQPlayer | soundgalleries and also this thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hqplayer-kick-start-guide-and-feature-requests-20870/index13.html#post368332 but with so many options confused which ones to use with the iFi Micro DSD DAC.... Link to comment
kurb1980 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Quick read but nothing new learned for me at least. I would upsample iFi Micro to DSD256 if your CPU can handle it but select the *2's variants for filters. If your finding that your still taxing your processors then opt for DSD128 *2's still apply. I also like to upsample DXD x8 or x16 using PCM set to Bit Perfect. I didn't have the micro for very long it has some firmware bugs and wasn't a big fan of the USB OTG connections. But the sound w/HQplayer is very good almost to many options with the both together. Link to comment
YashN Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Also try offline upconversion, you may find you get better sound this way. I don't know of a solution to do offline conversion to DSD 4x, but if I could I'd probably use that. For now, I am up-converting offline to DSD 2x. Firmware bugs or features are tackled quite diligently by the iFi Team, so you just need a little patience with that. I don't think it's reason enough to send it back. In fact, for the Nano, iFi released a new firmware version for free which added Quad rate DSD to the Nano, although never advertised as being able to do that! Enjoy! I would upsample iFi Micro to DSD256 if your CPU can handle it but select the *2's variants for filters. I didn't have the micro for very long it has some firmware bugs and wasn't a big fan of the USB OTG connections. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
eco_bach Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 I recently purchased Audirvana. With the iFI microDSD do you think there is any advantage in using HQplayer over Audirvana? Link to comment
kurb1980 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Night and day but I have both Audirvana I boot from SD card w/cad and other optimizations. Audirvana sounds pretty awesome especially since the recent update a couple back fixed SQ. On HQPLAYER the DSD sounds better after all the player was programed with DSD in mind. Miska is the developer I would ask him any questions you have. Link to comment
Miska Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 There are two ways to get good performance from iDSD Micro. You can either upsample to 705.6/768 kHz 24-bit PCM (remember to select DAC Bits as 24). When using this "16x" PCM rate, filter settings on the DAC shouldn't have effect, since the DAC is in "NOS" mode always in this case. Or you can upsample to DSD256 or DSD512 using ASDM5, DSD7 or DSD5v2 modulators. Using the "-2s" variants of the poly-sinc filters keep CPU load reasonable while doing so. DSD512 is only available on Windows and Linux (starting from HQPlayer 3.5.2beta). With DSD inputs, the DAC's filter settings change the conversion stage analog filter characteristics. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
eco_bach Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 Thanks Miska! Could you possibly look at the attached and tell me if I am on the right track? 2 dumb questions Does HQplayer automatically convert DSD to PCM for DACs that don't support DSD? What is the difference between choosing 'core audio' and the other 2 'backend' options? I notice that the iFi is ONLY selectable if I choose core audio. When, why might you choose the other options? I have a couple suggestions, though I know you are the sole developer and HQPlayer is a work in progress. 1-Should there be an option to check for updates somewhere in the menu or preferences? 2-I find adding new music very cumbersome.Would it be possible to add drag & drop functionality? And the ability to create custom playlists? 3-The ability to customize the look, reskin,maybe a light and a dark version etc would be awesome! 4-Very minor, but a bit incongruous when you select Preferences and the popup has 'Settings' at the top instead. Should be consistent, no? All the best! Link to comment
Miska Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Could you possibly look at the attached and tell me if I am on the right track? Here are my change proposals: 1) Set "SDM Pack" to "DoP" to enable DSD output option 2) Set PCM rate limit to 768000 3) Set SDM rate limite to 12288000 4) Uncheck the Pipeline SDM 5) If you don't need digital volume control, set Vol Min to -6 dB and then in the main window turn volume knob to -3 dB (12 o'clock position) After these changes, you can change output mode to SDM (DSD) in main window and it defaults to DSD256 output. 1-Should there be an option to check for updates somewhere in the menu or preferences? No... If you'd like to get notified about updates, you can either follow @Signalyst at Twitter or like the HQPlayer group in Facebook. 2-I find adding new music very cumbersome.Would it be possible to add drag & drop functionality? And the ability to create custom playlists? Drag & drop is already there, you can drop content from elsewhere on the player window in order to add it to the playlist. Other than that, updating the library data is simple by just using Library / Add tree and selecting some suitable higher level directory where to start searching for previously unknown content. 3-The ability to customize the look, reskin,maybe a light and a dark version etc would be awesome! In desktop mode (default), look and color is coming from OS theme settings. In fullscreen mode, default look is dark. 4-Very minor, but a bit incongruous when you select Preferences and the popup has 'Settings' at the top instead. Should be consistent, no? This is side-effect of the cross-platform nature of the software. On other platforms it is called "Settings" also in the menu, but on OS X the menu entry follows OS X style. I could customize the dialog title too, but it is such minor detail that it has been on low priority. Manual anyway talks about Settings dialog. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
levandier Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 There are two ways to get good performance from iDSD Micro. You can either upsample to 705.6/768 kHz 24-bit PCM (remember to select DAC Bits as 24). When using this "16x" PCM rate, filter settings on the DAC shouldn't have effect, since the DAC is in "NOS" mode always in this case. Hi Miska, why do you prefer 24-bit rather than 32-bit PCM? Link to comment
Miska Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Hi Miska, why do you prefer 24-bit rather than 32-bit PCM? Because the DAC chip is capable of only 24-bit... Only TI's DAC chip that is 32-bit capable is PCM1795. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
marantzfan Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Bookmarking this one for later... Link to comment
kurb1980 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Bookmarking this one for later... I asked Miska a question on HQplayer thread about which settings should be used in HQplayer based on 'measurements' for the iFI iDSD micro? Hopefully he we chime in on the iFI iDSD... Link to comment
BobSherman Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Also try offline upconversion, you may find you get better sound this way. I don't know of a solution to do offline conversion to DSD 4x, but if I could I'd probably use that. For now, I am up-converting offline to DSD 2x. Firmware bugs or features are tackled quite diligently by the iFi Team, so you just need a little patience with that. I don't think it's reason enough to send it back. In fact, for the Nano, iFi released a new firmware version for free which added Quad rate DSD to the Nano, although never advertised as being able to do that! Enjoy! What software are you using for your offline up-sampling? Regards Bob Link to comment
Franatic Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I've been using HQplayer about a week and I am very, very happy with the sound quality I have achieved here. I am now converting PCM to to Quad DSD(11289600) and upsampling DSD to same. This Quad DSD playback gives a very smooth, analog-like playback, yet all the details are preserved. The HQPlayer/micro idsd combo is such a perfect fit. I have not yet been able to successfully play at Octo DSD speed. I've tried the different filters and modulators and yet when I press play the timer stays at 0:00 and will not play a thing. I'm curious what my limiting factor is here. I have a 2 pc streamer w/ WS2012/ Jplay/ Audiophile Optimizer on both. The control pc has an i5 processor, the audio pc an i7. I am outputting though a PPA V4 usb card. Any suggestions or input would be appreciated. I would really like to get up to Octo speed! 2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/ Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0 > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse > 1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod 2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System ***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources Link to comment
kurb1980 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I've been using HQplayer about a week and I am very, very happy with the sound quality I have achieved here. I am now converting PCM to to Quad DSD(11289600) and upsampling DSD to same. This Quad DSD playback gives a very smooth, analog-like playback, yet all the details are preserved. The HQPlayer/micro idsd combo is such a perfect fit. I have not yet been able to successfully play at Octo DSD speed. I've tried the different filters and modulators and yet when I press play the timer stays at 0:00 and will not play a thing. I'm curious what my limiting factor is here. I have a 2 pc streamer w/ WS2012/ Jplay/ Audiophile Optimizer on both. The control pc has an i5 processor, the audio pc an i7. I am outputting though a PPA V4 usb card. Any suggestions or input would be appreciated. I would really like to get up to Octo speed! Correct me if I'm wrong but I think DOP can only do up to x4 DSD. Window's and Linx can use ASIO which HQplayer supports the extreme Octo speed. Link to comment
Franatic Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thanks for the reply. I just emailed Josef at Jplay and he said: "Is that iFi micro?If so, it does not support DoP over DSD256 - For DSD512 only ASIO works (so you can't use Kernel Streaming) and we do not support DSD over ASIO as of yet..." So I was not aware I was not streaming natively. So I can only do 4xDSD when using Kernel Streaming with Jplay/ifi because it is over Dop I asked him to put it on the list for development 2 modified PCs in a streamer with WS2012/ AO 2.20/ Jplay 7/ Fidelizer Pro 8.2/ Process Lasso/ Pachanko lan cables & PPA ethernet switch between pcs > Audio PC JCat Femto usb audio card > iFi Gemini 3.0 dual headed usb cable > iFi iGalvanic > iFi iUsb power 3.0 > iFi iPurifier 3 > Singxer SU-1 (i2s out) > Wyred 4 Sound DAC2V2 DSDse > 1) maxed out Woo WA2 > Beyerdynamic T1 w/ Forza Noir hybrid cable mod 2) Woo WA2 pre amp > Exposure 2010S2 Int Amp + Exposure 2010S2 Power Amp > Von Gaylord Legend Speakers + REL T-5 Sub-Bass System ***Audio system powered by two Equi=Core 300 balanced power sources Link to comment
kurb1980 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Thanks for the reply. I just emailed Josef at Jplay and he said:"Is that iFi micro?If so, it does not support DoP over DSD256 - For DSD512 only ASIO works (so you can't use Kernel Streaming) and we do not support DSD over ASIO as of yet..." So I was not aware I was not streaming natively. So I can only do 4xDSD when using Kernel Streaming with Jplay/ifi because it is over Dop I asked him to put it on the list for development I use HQplayer as my primary it does support up to DSD256 via DOP and Octa via Windows/Linx. I'm not sure about the other players since I'm Mac User... Link to comment
Samuel T Cogley Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 This might be helpful to some. When trying to determine the DoP sample rate needed to support a given DSD sampling rate, simply divide by 16: (44100 * 256) / 16 = 705600 (48000 * 256) / 16 = 768000 The iDSD Micro supports the PCM rates of 705600 Hz and 768000 Hz. The whole reason for this is not the anticipation of 705600 or 768000 Hz PCM material forthcoming, but DoP. Link to comment
Miska Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The iDSD Micro supports the PCM rates of 705600 Hz and 768000 Hz. The whole reason for this is not the anticipation of 705600 or 768000 Hz PCM material forthcoming, but DoP. Note that it is however able to operate at those PCM rates too. Which is good target for upsampling if one wants to use the DAC in PCM mode. It allows using 2x higher oversampling ratio than the built-in digital filter is capable of. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Dyson Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 There are two ways to get good performance from iDSD Micro. You can either upsample to 705.6/768 kHz 24-bit PCM (remember to select DAC Bits as 24). When using this "16x" PCM rate, filter settings on the DAC shouldn't have effect, since the DAC is in "NOS" mode always in this case. Or you can upsample to DSD256 or DSD512 using ASDM5, DSD7 or DSD5v2 modulators. Using the "-2s" variants of the poly-sinc filters keep CPU load reasonable while doing so. DSD512 is only available on Windows and Linux (starting from HQPlayer 3.5.2beta). With DSD inputs, the DAC's filter settings change the conversion stage analog filter characteristics. Hi Miska, why do you prefer 24-bit rather than 32-bit PCM? Because the DAC chip is capable of only 24-bit... Only TI's DAC chip that is 32-bit capable is PCM1795. Hi Miska I would like to come back on this old exchange regarding 24 or 32 bits for the iFi micro iDSD, because I found again the article of Chief Designer Thorsten Loesch at AMR/iFi explaining how the Burr-Brown DAC chip is treating the 32 bits: Q&A with Thorsten Loesch of AMR/iFi | AudioStream Is this not true? Thanks IsoTek evo3 Sirius⎪Late 2009 27" iMac 20GB w/SSD, 10.10.x ➤Audirvana Plus 3.0.x (Exclusive Direct Integer Mode 1, NOS) & Qobuz HiFi Sublime+ ➤Curious Cables ➤UpTone Audio ISO REGEN (UpTone Audio UltraCap LPS-1 (Breeze Audio R-Core Linear PSU)) ➤UpTone Audio USPCB ➤iFi micro iDAC2 running v5.2a (Bit-Perfect) serving: ➤Nobsound SE OTL headphone amp on Herbie's Soft Tenderfoot (selected tubes with Herbie's UltraSonic Rx) with IsoTek evo3 Premier power cable⎪Audez'e LCD-2 Rev. 2 on Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 Premium cable ➤Audioengine A5+ with AudioQuest Power NRG-1 cable ➤iFi micro iTube2 ➤Denon AVR-A100 100th Anniversary Edition with IsoTek evo3 Premier power cable on IsoTek evo3 Aquarius⎪B&W 804 D3 bi-amped on Inakustik cables Link to comment
Miska Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I would like to come back on this old exchange regarding 24 or 32 bits for the iFi micro iDSD, because I found again the article of Chief Designer Thorsten Loesch at AMR/iFi explaining how the Burr-Brown DAC chip is treating the 32 bits:Q&A with Thorsten Loesch of AMR/iFi | AudioStream Is this not true? I didn't see the topic covered anywhere in that article, but datasheet of the DSD1793 makes it clear that it can deal only use 24-bit data. Probably you can send 32-bit there because I2S uses fixed cycle length, but the last 8 bits gets just truncated (thrown away). Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Dyson Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 I didn't see the topic covered anywhere in that article, but datasheet of the DSD1793 makes it clear that it can deal only use 24-bit data. Probably you can send 32-bit there because I2S uses fixed cycle length, but the last 8 bits gets just truncated (thrown away). Correct for the datasheet, but they did lots of other tweaks so maybe that as well. In the article they explain that the top 6 bits are treated as real PCM and "any bits below this" are converted to Delta Sigma. The illustration mention explicitly "Bottom 26 bits" (+ top 6 bits = 32). The DAC chip we use in the iDSD nano offers a rather unusual way to handle things. It uses a 6-bit true Multi-bit DAC for the upper 6-bits of PCM Audio and delivers the warmth and slam Burr Brown Multi-bit DAC’s are so famous for. Any bits below this are converted with a low order 256 speed Delta Sigma modulator (in effect DSD256), giving PCM playback the smoothness Delta Sigma DAC’s and DSD are famed for. The Burr-Brown True Native DSD/PCM chipset – handling PCM and DSD natively IsoTek evo3 Sirius⎪Late 2009 27" iMac 20GB w/SSD, 10.10.x ➤Audirvana Plus 3.0.x (Exclusive Direct Integer Mode 1, NOS) & Qobuz HiFi Sublime+ ➤Curious Cables ➤UpTone Audio ISO REGEN (UpTone Audio UltraCap LPS-1 (Breeze Audio R-Core Linear PSU)) ➤UpTone Audio USPCB ➤iFi micro iDAC2 running v5.2a (Bit-Perfect) serving: ➤Nobsound SE OTL headphone amp on Herbie's Soft Tenderfoot (selected tubes with Herbie's UltraSonic Rx) with IsoTek evo3 Premier power cable⎪Audez'e LCD-2 Rev. 2 on Moon Audio Silver Dragon V3 Premium cable ➤Audioengine A5+ with AudioQuest Power NRG-1 cable ➤iFi micro iTube2 ➤Denon AVR-A100 100th Anniversary Edition with IsoTek evo3 Premier power cable on IsoTek evo3 Aquarius⎪B&W 804 D3 bi-amped on Inakustik cables Link to comment
Miska Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Correct for the datasheet, but they did lots of other tweaks so maybe that as well. In the article they explain that the top 6 bits are treated as real PCM and "any bits below this" are converted to Delta Sigma.The illustration mention explicitly "Bottom 26 bits" (+ top 6 bits = 32). This is what the data sheet has: I believe the data sheet is correct... What iFi says applies only to PCM1795... In any case, that 6-bit part has only marginal effect. It makes up 0.02% of full-scale signal values if input is 24-bit and 0.0001% of full-scale signal if input is 32-bit. And the DAC becomes pure delta sigma for levels below -36 dB. I think main reason for the 6-bit part is to make up for the low order modulator to achieve wanted SNR. Maybe they didn't have DSP resources to put higher order modulator there. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
YashN Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 What software are you using for your offline up-sampling? Korg Audiogate. Yuri also does a great conversion software. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623 DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels Link to comment
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