New Guy - "best" streamer?

[Dan Dicker]

Hi,

 

I'm sure this has been covered in length elsewhere, but I'm looking for something to replace my squeezebox.

 

I've found it a useful, if horrible sounding streaming solution -- but the things it can do are perfect for what I need.

 

i'd like to play music on my networked computer, as well as access various services, including pandora and spotify. I DO NOT need a DAC as I have been using my Esoteric for DAC work, it will decode DSD, and most other formats beautifully.

 

Budget isn't much of an issue, but I'm not looking to spend $10K+ on a mere server -- although it needs to be better sounding than the Squeezebox I'm retiring -- and should be able to decode all the hi-rez formats that are coming down the line.

 

What say you all?

[Audio_ELF]

One option which is coming soon is the Auralic Aries (sorry wrote the wrong thing to start). This works (almost exactly) like a Linn DS device but outputs via USB rather than having a built in DAC.

 

Other options include the Moon Mind 180 and Sonore Rendu.

 

Eloise

[Cebolla]

i'd like to play music on my networked computer, as well as access various services, including pandora and spotify. I DO NOT need a DAC as I have been using my Esoteric for DAC work, it will decode DSD, and most other formats beautifully.

 

Budget isn't much of an issue, but I'm not looking to spend $10K+ on a mere server -- although it needs to be better sounding than the Squeezebox I'm retiring -- and should be able to decode all the hi-rez formats that are coming down the line.

The majority of network audio players/streamers/renderers, especially non-proprietary industry standard UPnP/DLNA supporting ones, don't contain the music file store and don't maintain its music library. They perform just the music playback function, so are not considered servers. This means that with these types of streaming devices you are still going to require a networked server device to provide the music file library, usually a NAS or a computer running specialised software.

 

Some streamers have built in functions to access the internet for internet radio and other streaming services such as Pandora and Spotify, but those that don't rely completely on the server device to provide them with these facilities. Also the streamers with internet functions access the services for themselves, so cannot distribute those facilities to other devices on the network.

 

Just a quick question - it's not clear to me whether you're actually after a network music streaming device in addition to you wanting to playback music files on your computer over the network. Is this the case or is it that you just require to turn your computer into one of these streamers?

[Dan Dicker]

Just a quick question - it's not clear to me whether you're actually after a network music streaming device in addition to you wanting to playback music files on your computer over the network. Is this the case or is it that you just require to turn your computer into one of these streamers?

 

 

Well, I don't need storage -- will use my local networked computer for that, probably buy a big SS HD when it makes sense. And don't need a DAC attached. The Auralic Aries that the other poster mentioned seems like it's precisely what I need, capable of decoding whatever new downloaded hi-rez formats are out there. The point is I have a supreme audiophile system that has been reliant on vinyl and a very good CD player (Esoteric). I'd like to find the "bridge" unit that will bring some streaming formats to as high a level, if that's possible. Like I said, i've been using a squeezebox -- with far inferior sonic results to both the CD's and particularly the vinyl.

 

Is there anything out there like this Auralic Aries coming out? That may be the ticket.

[Cebolla]

i'd like to play music on my networked computer

Sorry about that, took this to mean literally playing music on the computer, rather than playing the music stored on the computer.

 

Ok, you'll be using the computer as the (network) storage device - which for a good many of these streamers (the UPnP/DLNA supporting ones) will mean you needing to run media server software on it too. Hence my point of the storage device being the actual server and not the streamer.

 

Unfortunately, there are very few streamers that don't come with a built-in DAC, though most do have optical/coax outputs for attaching an external DAC. Certainly the Auralic appears to be quite unique in being without a DAC and supporting all the file formats & streaming services you require.

 

There is the alternative of building your own and you'll have full control over the spec - such as with a Windows computer, for example. However internet streaming services might not be particularly user friendly, even klunky, to control remotely and achieving decent sound qualilty will most likely require a lot of fiddling.

[JayV]

You may want to consider setting up a beaglebone black to run squeezelite. There is a post on this site detailing step by step how to do it. It outputs via USB to your dac, can run on 4 AA batteries, and should be a direct replacement for your squeezebox. I built one for the same purpose but am currently back to the old squeezebox duet. Make sure the USB receiver in your esoteric unit works with Linux....I think that is the problem with my Marantz dac.

[JayV]

Here's another option if you don't want to fiddle with a little computer:

 

SOtM Mini Server sMS-100

 

There's a battery power supply as well.

[Ben-M]

One option which is coming soon is the Auralic Aries (sorry wrote the wrong thing to start). This works (almost exactly) like a Linn DS device but outputs via USB rather than having a built in DAC.

 

Other options include the Moon Mind 180 and Sonore Rendu.

 

Eloise

 

Yes, if I understand correctly, what you're looking for is one of these 4. But...

A question, what kind of output are you looking for? USB, HDMI-I2s, or SPDIF? This is what will determine your choice.

 

1. Moon - Mind 180

2. Auralic - Aries

3. Sonore - Rendu

4. SOtM - SMS-100 Mini Server

 

None of them have a DAC, they all handle all current formats, and they all output to a DAC. Pick whichever you think is best, but that's basically what you're looking at for now.

[Skeptic]

I don't know if it meets your requirements, but considering that money is no object here, I always liked the idea of buying one of Microsoft's Surface Pro tablets (a full-featured Windows PC) connected to their dock, running as a JRiver client.

 

This gives you a nice touchscreen interface and the ability to play any media without format restrictions or issues connecting to an external DAC because it's a real PC.

 

You can get these tablets with up to 512GB of internal storage, as well, which would let you store quite a lot of media if you wanted.

[Cebolla]

I don't know if it meets your requirements, but considering that money is no object here, I always liked the idea of buying one of Microsoft's Surface Pro tablets (a full-featured Windows PC) connected to their dock, running as a JRiver client.

 

This gives you a nice touchscreen interface and the ability to play any media without format restrictions or issues connecting to an external DAC because it's a real PC.

 

You can get these tablets with up to 512GB of internal storage, as well, which would let you store quite a lot of media if you wanted.

No need even for JRiver's relatively heavy footprint. Using the free Foobar2000 music player plus foo_UPnP plugin component turns the Windows tablet into a full blown UPnP/DLNA renderer.

[sedest]

Hi,

 

I'm sure this has been covered in length elsewhere, but I'm looking for something to replace my squeezebox.

 

I've found it a useful, if horrible sounding streaming solution -- but the things it can do are perfect for what I need.

 

i'd like to play music on my networked computer, as well as access various services, including pandora and spotify. I DO NOT need a DAC as I have been using my Esoteric for DAC work, it will decode DSD, and most other formats beautifully.

 

Budget isn't much of an issue, but I'm not looking to spend $10K+ on a mere server -- although it needs to be better sounding than the Squeezebox I'm retiring -- and should be able to decode all the hi-rez formats that are coming down the line.

 

What say you all?

If you are in search of a proper replacement for your Squeezebox, I would suggest Daphile. Just make sure to use Squeezelite player, you won't regret!

 

Daphile ? Digital Music Convenience for Audiophiles

[wisnon]

Lumin. Great feedback at Audioshark.org and they even organize a group buy with an interesting discount to the $7.2K retail price.

 

If you want to keep your SB Duet (not Touch), you could contact the Lampizator to have it embedded in his Lampi Transport, with new Clock, 5 dedicated PSUs and a digi-Lampizator spdif output stage. It will only do 24/88 though, which is the Duet limit. People say it sounds great, I have never heard one.

 

Gopher on audiocircle has one and he is a dealer.

[Skeptic]

No need even for JRiver's relatively heavy footprint. Using the free Foobar2000 music player plus foo_UPnP plugin component turns the Windows tablet into a full blown UPnP/DLNA renderer.

Does Foobar have a touchscreen UI?

 

JRiver's footprint is anything but "heavy". Just because it's a full-blow media center which can handle audio and video, does not mean it uses a lot of resources.

[Cebolla]

Does Foobar have a touchscreen UI?

 

JRiver's footprint is anything but "heavy". Just because it's a full-blow media center which can handle audio and video, does not mean it uses a lot of resources.

When used as a UPnP renderer any UPnP control point can be used to control Fb2k's playback - Kinsky is probably the best for Window's tablets & for iDevices, BubbleUPnP for Android.

 

I did say 'relatively heavy footprint'. JRiver uses a fair amount of its resources in its server duites locally providing & maintaining the music library as well as its very decent user interface. Some consider those media center duties best left to separate devices on the network, eg the media server on a NAS and the controller on a hand held device (a 'proper' controller and not merely a remote control to an otherwise unused local user interface).

 

The idea is to have the streamer device only take care of music rendering/playback of the audio files, streamed from & maintained by the (separate) server device, as instructed by the (separate) controller device.

[davide256]

If you want to purchase now and don't need DSD streaming the Naim NDX is one you should look at for a pure streamer pulling media. But I suspect the Lumin is a better buy because integrating the media server takes the "fiddly" part out as well as can be done. While the Auralic sounds promising in its price range I'm skeptical it will compete with the Lumin or NDX for absolute fidelity.

[bluemark81]

Yottamusic. I'm really leaning towards trying one of these, but they are new and no information exists on them other than from their own website. One question I have is regarding the built in DAC. It is an akm ak4390 and information on the Yotta website claims it supports up to 32bit/384khz, however, isn't the ak4390 capable of only 32bit/216khz? Am I missing anything here? Comments on this unit by other members would be appreciated.

[Skeptic]

If you want to purchase now and don't need DSD streaming the Naim NDX is one you should look at for a pure streamer pulling media. But I suspect the Lumin is a better buy because integrating the media server takes the "fiddly" part out as well as can be done. While the Auralic sounds promising in its price range I'm skeptical it will compete with the Lumin or NDX for absolute fidelity.

If it's being used as a transport to an Esoteric DAC, anything with a USB port will work just fine.

Both the Lumin and Naim devices you recommend seem to be DACs, and the Lumin appears to be a Chinese Linn Klimax clone.

 

I still think that the Surface Pro 2 with a dock running JRiver is the best solution if you want to stream audio to a DAC and have a screen that lets you navigate your library on the device or display playback information.

 

If you don't care about a display or a touchscreen to navigate your library with, there are plenty of other, cheaper options.

[DZetye]

The Yotta sounds very interesting. Anybody try one of these or hear one? I am also very interested in this

[bluemark81]

Yottamusic. I'm really leaning towards trying one of these, but they are new and no information exists on them other than from their own website. One question I have is regarding the built in DAC. It is an akm ak4390 and information on the Yotta website claims it supports up to 32bit/384khz, however, isn't the ak4390 capable of only 32bit/216khz? Am I missing anything here? Comments on this unit by other members would be appreciated.

 

The manufacturer has confirmed the yottabox down converts any file over 216 khz (the maximum capability of the ak4390 chip). Further, if you happen to have a dac that is capable of > 216 khz, you can use the digital out on the yottabox to pass the signal through to the dac rather than using the internal dac of the yottabox.

[Paul R]

What music player are you using on your computer? If JRMC, then just buy another small computer, like a Maa Mini, load JRMC, and use an iPad to control it all. Very good streaming, and you have all the options you can possibly desire. Inexpensive, and you can choose any system you please- from a headless Mac Mini to a ultra book with touch screen.

[bluemark81]

What music player are you using on your computer? If JRMC, then just buy another small computer, like a Maa Mini, load JRMC, and use an iPad to control it all. Very good streaming, and you have all the options you can possibly desire. Inexpensive, and you can choose any system you please- from a headless Mac Mini to a ultra book with touch screen.

 

I'm not sure if your post is in reference to the Yottabox or not, but I'm running a mac mini with Audirvana +. My files are mostly AIFF. I can currently use my ipad for control, but only if I have that ability enabled in A+, but then it reduces the SQ, so I'm looking for a method to use my ipad to select, view and control the music on my mac mini in their current uncompressed format.

[davide256]

If it's being used as a transport to an Esoteric DAC, anything with a USB port will work just fine.

Both the Lumin and Naim devices you recommend seem to be DACs, and the Lumin appears to be a Chinese Linn Klimax clone.

 

I still think that the Surface Pro 2 with a dock running JRiver is the best solution if you want to stream audio to a DAC and have a screen that lets you navigate your library on the device or display playback information.

 

If you don't care about a display or a touchscreen to navigate your library with, there are plenty of other, cheaper options.

Skeptic, its a sad fact that the good streamers don't come as separate from the DAC's so you will be getting a DAC you don't need in many cases. But both of these options have a BNC digital out to feed a separate DAC. And neither will require more than an android or iPad rablet with a NAS to get the most out of them.. a PC becomes superflous outside of ripping. My PC is basically a "super NAS" in my system and JRiver a retired dinosaur once the limitations of asynch USB were abandoned.

[pooger]

I'm not sure if your post is in reference to the Yottabox or not, but I'm running a mac mini with Audirvana +. My files are mostly AIFF. I can currently use my ipad for control, but only if I have that ability enabled in A+, but then it reduces the SQ, so I'm looking for a method to use my ipad to select, view and control the music on my mac mini in their current uncompressed format.

 

have you tried setting up a VPN? I'm using splashbox and can run A+ in direct mode fine. Of course this means I need to have the mini on a network, (and to make it worse in my case, wireless), so it's not as stripped down as possible. I've yet to do tests cutting off the wireless from the mini (maybe this weekend) but I imagine there should be a benefit in it.

 

Has as anyone compared SQ between Bluetooth (on/off) and network (on/off)?

[bluemark81]

I'm not sure if your post is in reference to the Yottabox or not, but I'm running a mac mini with Audirvana +. My files are mostly AIFF. I can currently use my ipad for control, but only if I have that ability enabled in A+, but then it reduces the SQ, so I'm looking for a method to use myr ipad to select, view and control the music on my mac mini in their current uncompressed format.

 

have you tried setting up a VPN? I'm using splashbox and can run A+ in direct mode fine. Of course this means I need to have the mini on a network, (and to make it worse in my case, wireless), so it's not as stripped down as possible. I've yet to do tests cutting off the wireless from the mini (maybe this weekend) but I imagine there should be a benefit in it.

 

Has as anyone compared SQ between Bluetooth (on/off) and network (on/off)?

 

I have not tried VPN, but I downloaded JRiver and JRemote a couple of days ago. Although I'm still in the process of figuring out all the details of it, it does appear to be quite extensive and powerful. I'm currently trying to determine the best setting for ultimate SQ as well as figuring out how to mirror my library's into JRemote. I also installed Mobile Mouse which allows me to use my iPad as a trackpad and keyboard to navigate around my Mac mini without using my stand alone Bluetooth keyboard and trackpad. This allowse to easily navigate my way around A+. It works VERY good and comes in handy for things other than A+ as well. Highly recommended! With these programs, I am now steering away from a stand alone streamer as both these softwares have provided me with the ability I was looking for, which was control of my Mac mini through my iPad. I am leaning towards JRiver with JRemote as it shows all my albums on my iPad, which is really what I was looking for, in addition to maintaining the best SQ possible. Still much to learn though and certainly open to suggestions and/or recommendations.

[Tufan Alatan]

I was using logitech duet with Vortexbox As Nas and i changed to NDX streaming from Vortexbox and the result is amazing !!!