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Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic


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More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.
Thanks for the details. While I still don't like the hardware design at all (looks like a cheap plastic device compared to the aluminum and glass hardware from everyone else) it certainly seems like the audio quality will be stellar.

 

And the price seems very reasonable considering what hardware is inside it.

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What exactly is your problem? You are complaining about a man of integrity in regards to fidelity selling, and profiting from hirez which actually is sourced from low-rez? You expect integrity? REALLY?

 

So I am guessing you maybe are a bit skeptical of his gee whizz, trust us this will be great, we love real sound quality more than anything pitch? Is that a fair characterization? All the while avoiding at every turn any specifics. You feel maybe a little bit mistrustful of it all.

 

You feel like maybe it is a pono in a poke? Surely you aren't that cynical? Or then again, maybe you are?

 

Heck this all reeks, I say it REEKS of bull sh**. If you got the goods, then you have no problem putting that out there. Otherwise you speak and promise much and deliver less. Put up or shut up. You got something then lay it out. Otherwise you got crap, and pass it off as gold. Put up or shut up. I am about ready to declare this as stillborn at best.

 

 

I'm willing to believe Neil Young has no idea that the Le Noise DVD is up sampled red-book. (I also suspect he cannot hear the difference, and that his hearing is probably quite poor at his age and given what loud music does to hearing.) What I am suggesting is that his music is no more immune to the problems (or fraud) characteristic of the rest of the high-res industry, and that the quality control is lacking. If we can't trust the quality control for the Le Noise DVD (or several of the others I have posted about here), then how do we trust what is going into Pono?

 

I also have the Massey Hall DVD from the archives, and it is the real thing, so I am not suggesting that his people are incapable of coming up with the goods.

 

The old Russian proverb mistakenly associated with Reagan comes to mind: trust, but verify.

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What are the actual dimensions of the player?

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Maybe. I consider myself an enthusiast and so far this doesn't peak my interest, at least not to the tune of $399, so what does that say about the average consumer.

 

Seriously? $399 is awesome for this set of features. Sure, FiiO is cheaper but … it's cheaper. Assuming Chris is correct, this Pono will have a very serious set of design specs that will put it's price far below what's out from A&K and HiFiMAN, and what's coming from Calyx -- and will be cheaper than an iPod and still have 2x the storage. Sounds like a winner to me.

 

The device is one thing, though. In this case, the software will probably be more important. Will the system introduce proprietary formats? Will it support all the digital files I already have? Will users be willing to forsake HDTracks and iTunes for PonoMusic? They'll have to for the platform to really take off.

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They should get the Beatles to do mono Pono.

 

Just no Yoko Pono.

 

I like the way this product looks. Different than most pocket portables yes, but for my use, form follows function beautifully. First, I would be carrying this in a backpack or messenger bag while traveling. Second, I could set it on the tray-table that will likely be in front of me or a hotel nightstand and actually be able to easily read the display. I could also carry some SD cards loaded with music for those times when I want all/more of my library with me. The price tag seems reasonable enough if the quality is there, but there's just too many unanswered questions right now.

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Basically other than Chris promising "this is wonderful" we know no more after this press release than we knew before. I'm sorry Chris but this is another example of journalistic "nod nod, wink wink, you need to trust me".
Sorry, Eloise, but what has Chris done other than ask for questions, post a press release, and note that the files are DRM free? I haven't read anything where he evaluates it, endorses it, or says "this is wonderful".

 

In answer to "firedog's" challenge... These two quotes...

Alex - I have much more information than publicly released. I promise DRM was in play when working with Meridian. I confirmed today via phone call that DRM is out.

 

Wow tough crowd.

 

Pono has huge potential to get civilians into better sounding music. All ships rise with the tide. It makes sense to me to support Pono rather than snipe negative comments from the weeds.

Sorry I have a real problem with journalists (and I don't think its wrong to class Chris as a journalist) who hints in a superior fashion that he knows more than the "plebs" (my word not his) who read his work. Very unprofessional IMO.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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In answer to "firedog's" challenge... These two quotes...

 

 

 

Sorry I have a real problem with journalists (and I don't think its wrong to class Chris as a journalist) who hints in a superior fashion that he knows more than the "plebs" (my word not his) who read his work. Very unprofessional IMO.

 

Eloise

Why is it unprofessional? What make this "superior fashion"?

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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Why is it unprofessional? What make this "superior fashion"?

You should report the facts which are available. If you know something else you keep it quiet. It's call non-disclosure and usually a non-disclosure means you also don't disclose you know things you can't disclose.

 

Just IMO of course.

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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Seriously? $399 is awesome for this set of features. Sure, FiiO is cheaper but … it's cheaper. Assuming Chris is correct, this Pono will have a very serious set of design specs that will put it's price far below what's out from A&K and HiFiMAN, and what's coming from Calyx -- and will be cheaper than an iPod and still have 2x the storage. Sounds like a winner to me.

 

The device is one thing, though. In this case, the software will probably be more important. Will the system introduce proprietary formats? Will it support all the digital files I already have? Will users be willing to forsake HDTracks and iTunes for PonoMusic? They'll have to for the platform to really take off.

 

Hi Scot, thumbs up for that comment. As a young cash strapped audio lover, I would like to point out that we are effectively getting a cheaper Ayre designed DAC + headphone amp. Last time I checked, Ayre does not do budget equipment and their equipment is one of the best around (according to people here at CA).

They seem to be paying genuine attention to engineering (prior involvement with meridian and now with Ayre). They have a low output impedance, a audiophile grade chip and a rational price. I for one would love to have one right away. Hopefully, Pono will also help in convincing the music industry of HD downloads with a clear provenance.

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In answer to "firedog's" challenge... These two quotes...

 

 

 

Sorry I have a real problem with journalists (and I don't think its wrong to class Chris as a journalist) who hints in a superior fashion that he knows more than the "plebs" (my word not his) who read his work. Very unprofessional IMO.

 

Eloise

 

 

 

 

Some information may not be "approved" for release. Give Chris a break.

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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Some information may not be "approved" for release. Give Chris a break.

I understand that. But as I replied to Chris above ... If there is information hidden behind a non-disclosure agreement; don't hint that such information is available.

 

And why should I have to "give Chris a break" he's doing this as a profession not as a favour to you and me. I'm critical or the journalism in the Time, on the BBC, in HiFi magazines generally and just as critical of people presenting themselves as professionals online.

 

Anyway I'm not going to go on about this - it's just as I read Chris's comments they are written in an unprofessional manner IF he wants to be a impartial journalist and not a Neil Young / Pono fanboy!

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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You should report the facts which are available. If you know something else you keep it quiet. It's call non-disclosure and usually a non-disclosure means you also don't disclose you know things you can't disclose.

 

Just IMO of course.

 

Eloise

Real life conversations are not as black and white as you may think. Some things are off the record and woven throughout the conversation. I comment on what I know to be on the record and that may not be disclosed to others yet. The facts I've reported are available to me. Suggesting I keep quiet is weird. I like to share as much as allowed.

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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Will the system introduce proprietary formats? Will it support all the digital files I already have? Will users be willing to forsake HDTracks and iTunes for PonoMusic? They'll have to for the platform to really take off.

 

Too much time has passed with none of those important questions being answered...

 

Forsake HDtracks, iTunes or any other file we legitimately own? Why would one do that - just to help Mr Young see his platform "take off"?

 

Give me a break...

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Seriously? $399 is awesome for this set of features. Sure, FiiO is cheaper but … it's cheaper. Assuming Chris is correct, this Pono will have a very serious set of design specs that will put it's price far below what's out from A&K and HiFiMAN, and what's coming from Calyx -- and will be cheaper than an iPod and still have 2x the storage. Sounds like a winner to me.

 

The device is one thing, though. In this case, the software will probably be more important. Will the system introduce proprietary formats? Will it support all the digital files I already have? Will users be willing to forsake HDTracks and iTunes for PonoMusic? They'll have to for the platform to really take off.

 

ipod doesn't play hi-rez. Don't know what the heck is wrong with Apple. They should have done this years ago. Neil tried to get Steve Jobs involved. But as usual they only care about making huge profits on stripped down products. I don't believe iTunes sells hi-rez files do they? I don't know because I've never used iTunes store. I mean why would they when ipods can't play them?

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I understand that. But as I replied to Chris above ... If there is information hidden behind a non-disclosure agreement; don't hint that such information is available.

 

And why should I have to "give Chris a break" he's doing this as a profession not as a favour to you and me. I'm critical or the journalism in the Time, on the BBC, in HiFi magazines generally and just as critical of people presenting themselves as professionals online.

 

Anyway I'm not going to go on about this - it's just as I read Chris's comments they are written in an unprofessional manner IF he wants to be a impartial journalist and not a Neil Young / Pono fanboy!

 

 

 

Eloise

 

I disagree I think Chris is really professional in his work and I absolutely don't read the current discourse as anything more than impartial from Chis's side. You are entitled to your opinion, so lets just get back to the issue at hand.

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Seriously? $399 is awesome for this set of features. Sure, FiiO is cheaper but … it's cheaper.

Another fanboy then...

 

Sorry but what does that even mean? It's cheaper? In what way... The build quality and sound quality of the Pono player is a complete unknown at the point!

 

Sure, it has potential to be good ... But so far it's just a list of specs and buzzwords - the kind of thing that many other manufacturers would be criticised for!

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

Link to comment
Why is it unprofessional? What make this "superior fashion"?

 

Hello Chris,

 

Thank you for publishing what you Know and what you are free to release. Given my own enthusiasm for Amarra and W4S, there are times when the People in charge who trust me ask me to wait for some antecedent before spilling the beans. Not suggesting what constraints, if any, you are under presently.

 

Not sure why Ms. Audio_ELF is troubled by your reportage. Often, journalists are given an advance off the record. I am sure this will develop in time and appropriately with full disclosure so we can assess what is factually being presented. I am a fan of Neil Young and wish him much success. I am looking for a win-win for all of us.

 

With appreciation.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

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2008-copenhagen-2-28-crop.jpg

 

 

"Eloise, Eloooisee, give me a squeeze

I love you even when you sneeze

 

Oh Eloise,

buy my Pono

Don't bitch

make me rich"

 

 

Love, NY

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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Not sure why Ms. Audio_ELF is troubled by your reportage. Often, journalists are given an advance off the record. I am sure this will develop in time and appropriately with full disclosure so we can assess what is factually being presented. I am a fan of Neil Young and wish him much success. I am looking for a win-win for all of us.

My problem is that the only information Chris has revealed is in the press release - which IMO says nothing new - along with a confirmation that it is DRM free and (later after my first post) some details of Ayres involvement (which yes does give some confirmation that it has the potential to sound good). Apart from those facts there is nothing in this thread except skepticism of Ponos worth on on hand and hype on the other.

 

There may be some information that Chris knows which answers the questions - like how can 128GB store 1000 high resolution albums as the press release says - but he doesn't feel he can reveal, yet he could acknowledge some of the concerns instead of dismissing them out of hand.

 

Wow tough crowd.

 

Pono has huge potential to get civilians into better sounding music. All ships rise with the tide. It makes sense to me to support Pono rather than snipe negative comments from the weeds.

 

So I guess no chance of answers to simple questions like ... Does Ponos utilise an open file format (such as FLAC)? It's all very well being DRM free, but if it uses a format which is entangled with patents and proprietary decoding methods then it's going to be difficult to utilise elsewhere. Let's face it many people accuse iTunes Music Store of only being usable with an iPod / Apple hardware because the downloads are in AAC and only supported on 95% of players rather than the more ubiquitous MP3 format!

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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PS,

I have been a student of Huna for the last thirty-five years and use certain rituals in my practice. I was taught by the first female Kahuna who though no longer on the planet was a treasure. My response to the use of "pono" for a name for this device touches a deeper meaning for me. I am hoping this new device delivers what is attainable by us Humans-in Training when we apply our intention for the Highest Good. There are no sugars, starch, artificial ingredients, dyes, just natural sensory specific awareness.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

 

Ho’oponopono is an extremely effective response to stress, suffering, and other forms of problems, brings about a much improved life experience, and does it all with a minimal investment of effort.

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Press releases well that's the information provided by Pono or Young which means people can interpret them anyway they want. I've read that these labels are on board Warner Music Group, Universal Music Group and Sony Music but the only proof is what is available when this device and music is ready to purchase. I've also read, "Young has said that Pono files will be artist-approved studio masters, and that implies different masters and possibly mixes than the CD, LP, or iTunes mixes", well my take is which artist. Well his new data base of music needs to be massive in nature to go against his nemesis iTunes and take is going to take time. And the device itself, a triangle shaped device which to me is not very thoughtful for those that walk or jog. I'm just going to set back and wait, watch and listen. Who knows it might work if all the pieces are in place not to mention the labels, available music and "artist".

The Truth Is Out There

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As a young cash strapped audio lover, I would like to point out that we are effectively getting a cheaper Ayre designed DAC + headphone amp. Last time I checked, Ayre does not do budget equipment and their equipment is one of the best around (according to people here at CA).

 

Yes, exactly -- I'm psyched. And I bet the Kickstarter thing will offer some cool perks.

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So I guess no chance of answers to simple questions like ... Does Ponos utilise an open file format (such as FLAC)? It's all very well being DRM free, but if it uses a format which is entangled with patents and proprietary decoding methods then it's going to be difficult to utilise elsewhere.

Eloise

 

Pretty much agreed that it's premature to either praise or slag Pono itself, though Ayre's involvement is a plus. Never too early to hope this might be a lever to enlarge the market for and availability of good quality music, but it's just a hope.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Another fanboy then...

 

Sorry but what does that even mean? It's cheaper? In what way... The build quality and sound quality of the Pono player is a complete unknown at the point!

 

Sure, it has potential to be good ... But so far it's just a list of specs and buzzwords - the kind of thing that many other manufacturers would be criticised for!

 

Eloise

 

Sure, I guess I am. As Chris mentioned, any hi-res audio product that's even remotely mainstream (or has mainstream backing, marketing, and appeal) can only benefit the rest of the industry. Doesn't matter if you love or loathe Beats by Dre, that brand has pretty much doubled the entire headphone industry. And that's a whole lot of money we're talking about (>$2B!). Not saying Pono will be anything like that or have that kind of impact, but still, if you're a fan of the hobby and would like to see it a thriving thing, getting behind efforts like Pono is a no-brainer. Besides, I think Neil is pretty awesome.

 

As to the hype-to-value ratio, you do have a point. A bit blunt, if you ask me, since it applies to any product pre-launch, but whatever. Rest assured that any Beats-like move (high price paired with low performance/value) by Pono will be eviscerated here, on Head-Fi, and most likely by the rest of the audiophile/head-fi "press".

 

In the meantime, there's going to be a lot more hype, specs and buzzwords when that Kickstarter gets going.

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