Which switch for 176.4/24 & 192/24 streaming?

[Ilja Van Rhee]

hello,

 

Newbie on this forum, but I'd like to think I am not-so-newbie in computer audio. Until now perhaps.

 

After much trial&error, I still can't get streaming 176.4/24 and 192/24 files to work. Streaming up to 96/24 works perfectly on my home LAN.

 

My set up is as follows:

 

• Synology DS213+ NAS, connected to the LAN with 1Gb Ethernet connection
  
• iMac - connects via 100Mb Ethernet
  
• Moon MiND180 renderer - connects via 100Mb Ethernet to the LAN
  
• Netgear GS108 switch with 8x 10Mb/100Mb/1Gb ports
  
• Router - Fritzbox7360, connects also to the Netgear switch
  

 

I downloaded 176.4/24 (FLAC) version of Michael Jackson's album Thriller from HD tracks.

 

1. when playing a 176.4/24 track that is stored on my iMac with Enqueue on my iMac, the track plays without any problems on my iMac - to me this proves the 176.4/24 file does not have any errors
   
2. when playing the same track, but streaming the track from my NAS to Enqueue on my iMac, the file plays but with intermittent problems. When streaming that same file to the MiND180, I hear no sound at all (in the MiND app, the track progress indicator runs as like the file is playing). During playing the CPU-load of my NAS is never more than 5% - to me this proves that the NAS is capable of 176.4/24, but that the problem is somewhere in the cabling, the switch or the router and/or the MiND180
   
3. when playing the file in the same way as under 2/, but disconnecting the router, the problem stays the same - this proves to me that the router is not the issue (in fact during streaming the traffic never passes the router, it goes directly from NAS via switch to iMac/MiND180)
   
4. when playing the file in the same way as under 2, but replacing the LAN cables, the problem stays the same. To me this proves the cabling is not the issue.
   

 

Combining 1-4 together leads me to conclude that therefore the switch must be the issue. The switch is unmanaged (plug&pray), which means I have no means to look into the switch, but based on the above I would conclude that the switch core has not sufficient power to switch the 176.4/24 stream from the port to where the NAS connects, to the port that connects to the iMac (or MiND). It is like the input buffer overflows and thus when outputting the date to the iMAC or MiND180, that some of the data is lost.

 

Note - the MiND is not the most stable renderer available, but it plays 96/24 without issues, and I've seen one playing 192/24 files so I do not think the MiND is an issue .

 

Questions:

1/ can anyone pick a hole in my reasoning and did I miss something?

2/ any experience with similar issues?

3/ what switch are you using, and does streaming 176.4/24 and 192/24 files work without any problems with that switch? (if all else fails I will buy a switch that is proven to work with 192/24 streaming)

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks

 

Ilja

[Mark Manner]

I have a netgear gs108 switch (several of them), and they can handle very easily streaming 24/192 or 24/176 files from my NAS over the network. Unless the switch is defective, it isn't likely the problem. I suspect your renderer or some setting in the player software. I don't have your system, so I can't be of more direct help, however.

Good luck,

Mark

[Ilja Van Rhee]

Thanks Mark appreciated. That rules out the switch. Well, so far for my reasoning…

 

I think I haven't tried streaming 176.4/24 from my iMac to my MiND180 yet, with e.g. Plex. If the cabling and the switch is not the issue, then that should work. In theory.

[Audio_ELF]

What UPnP server are you using on the Synology... Maybe worth typing Minimserver if you haven't already.

[Ilja Van Rhee]

Am using Media Server. Read about Minimserver, decided to give it a try if I know for sure the NAS is really the problem.

 

Media Server works fine for hi-res files up to 96/24. Is it known to have issues for higher rez files?

[Cebolla]

No idea if the Synology NAS's default Media Server has any problems for files above 24/96 resolutions, but certainly MinimServer is a proven recommended UPnP/DLNA server to use for music on these devices. As far as the actual DS213+ model is concerned, its processor is supposed to have a built-in FPU, so the usual floating point functions problems associated with hi-res (especially with transcoding) should not be an issue and the 5% CPU load seems to bear this out.

 

Certainly have a go using MinimServer - you can install it on the iMac for a quick test first to save you a more complex install of it on the NAS for now. It can be configured to handle the NAS's music files via its shared folders, so no need to copy any files to the iMac if you've none installed there.

 

You also didn't mention taking the switch completely out of the loop - it may be worth just connecting the relevant network devices via the Fritzbox router only, as a test.

[Ilja Van Rhee]

Initially I didn't have the switch, and without the switch the same issues occured. I thought the processing capacity of the router CPU was the issue and thus decided to put a switch in between.

 

Yesterday I also tried Plex as DLNA server on the Synology. Plex is another standard DLNA package available for Synology, - I dont like it at all - but thought to give it a try anyway just to see if it would make a difference. But it didnt change anything, still same performance issues.

 

Will give MinimServer a try tonight, first indeed as server on my MAC.

 

Keep u posted

 

Ilja

[DavidL]

I'd recommend MinimServer strongly.

 

I have a Synology DS412+ NAS on which I have installed MinimServer: the processor on the '+' models of the Synology NAS is easily able to do the serving. No need for any other computer, except for curating the music collection. What are you using as a controller (or does Enqueue on the Mac handle this)?

I have an airport extreme as router and 2 GS108 switches in my LAN for the music packets to negotiate to reach the renderer, and can play hi-res without any problems.

 

David

[Mark Manner]

Ilja, fwiw, I use the DLNA server on my Synology DS713+ and it works fine with 24/176-192 files. I am using the Synology supplied "Media Server 1.1-2407"

[Ilja Van Rhee]

Well, whadda ya know. It works. Don't ask me how or why.

 

I installed MinimServer on my MAC, and then tried to stream 176.4/24 to my MiND180. Nothing. Then I noticed that the app to control the MiND could see that it an 176.2/24 file was. So I was standing there again pondering what the issue might be, and then suddenly: sound! The track was close to the end of its first minute before I heard anything, but still, I could hear the King of Pop like he was alive.

 

However, when playing another track the sound stopped half way. Weird. However that happened only once (so far?). It gets stranger, when switching to the NAS that still runs the Synology Media Server package, it also worked. I can stream 176.4/24 from my NAS. Very weird all this, perhaps it is a buffering issue or something like that?

 

In any case - thank you all very much for your input.

 

PS - will give installing MinimServer directly on the NAS a chance when I have a bit more time.

 

Ilja

 

Ilja

[Ilja Van Rhee]

Still, I am not happy with this kind of 'magic'. When it ain't broke, I am not going to fix it, but I welcome any explanation.

 

Ilja