Problem: Noisy rips. Cause: Unknown. Desired: solution to overcome the obstacle preventing me from entering audiophile nirvana...

[JME]

Hi,

 

I am new on this forum, despite having been an enthuthiastic, albeit irregular, reader here for years.

 

The reason why I have just registered is that I have a problem that I very much hope that some of the wise and helpful members here can help me find the solution to...

 

My problem consists in noise on several of my ripped cd albums - but not all, despite the fact that all of my rips are being done on the same computer with the same optical drive, same software (EAC + JRiver) and all cables etc. being the same as well. Personally I find it most likely that the noise comes from my external, USB-powered, Asus Blu-Ray slim-line combo drive (SBC-06D2XU), but I am by no means certain, so that is what I hope that you will help me to determine. The Asus drive is only slightly more than half a year old, yet it does often make quite a bit of noise when in use, and its vibrations are furthermore easily heard and felt on the desk, and this has been so ever since the day I bought it, although I did not give it much consideration back then, especially since I did not have any decent computer audio equipment until recently.

 

The other parts of my system consist of a Violectric V800 DAC + Violectric V200 head-amp + Audeze LCD2.v2. and Musical Fidelity X-T100 integrated amp + Dali Menuet speakers, all placed on my desktop with what I consider to be more than decent cabling (from van den Hul and AudioQuest among others).

 

If it most likely is my drive that is at fault, then I am considering buying the following drive from Buffalo as a replacement, and I would naturally be very grateful for any informed or reasoned comment on whether it is likely to be a better drive than the one I have and solve my noise problems (my main reason for selecting this one is that it looks like a sturdy build, it has an external power supply and it has a USB 3.0 connection, but I do not have a chance to test the drive before making the purchase):

 

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00BQTJ1DQ/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p147_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1KRZF4554QEA92T0K416&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=455353687&pf_rd_i=301128

 

Any thoughts?

[thesurfingalien]

Hi JME,

 

Welcome!

 

Can you describe the noise a bit better? What does it sound like?

 

What you could try is rip the same CD a couple of times to see if the noise is the same on all rips, and if EAC reports the same checksums and rip-quality for all tracks.

 

You can also try to re-rip one of the CDs that has noise in the previous rip using another drive (maybe you can borrow one?)

 

EDIT: EAC also can compare the rip-results against the results of others that ripped the same CD. If that returns 0-confidence results, your drive may indeed be defective. But for that you probably have to find a CD that is popular; I have some obscure CDs that apparently nobody had ripped as well, so I get 0-confidence on these

 

Kind regards,

Peter

[sandyk]

JME

Are you able to compare the checksums of the tracks that you notice are noisy against those of a rip of the same tracks using another computer ? We need to know if the tracks are accurately ripped or not.

FWIW, when I create comparison .wav files having the same checksums, I normally use a USB powered portable Samsung writer for the worse sounding versions. As this topic is likely to really piss off the hard line Objective crowd of the forum, I would suggest that you first verify that the tracks have identical checksums compared with those from another computer that sound O.K. If there are no errors in the rips from the external writer, I would suggest that we continue this discussion via PMs to avoid extremely sarcastic replies from certain members.

Kind Regards

Alex

P.S.

Peter posted similar suggestions while I was preparing my reply.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Signature

"If you can't hear the difference between an original CD and a copy of your CD, you might as well give up your career as a tester. The difference between a reconstituted FLAC and full size WAV is much less than that, but it does exist."-Cookie Marenco. cookiemarenco.com/

[esldude]

A description of the type noise might help. And as already asked, have you ripped the same albums a second time to see if the same noise is there?

 

Hard to imagine how a rip would be noisy due to the drive or rip. But not impossible. Usually if the rip is more than a few scattered bits read wrong or interpolated you will get dropouts or pops. Doing checksums on two rips off the same drive would be worthwhile to see if the drive is consistently ripping the tracks. By this I mean rip an album, then rip it again and see if both versions have the same checksum. Here is a simple windows program to do this though there are others available.

WinMD5 Free - Windows MD5 Utility Freeware

 

I only have experience with two bus powered CD/DVD drives. They usually worked fine, but now and again would fail to work properly. All external drives with their own power have worked without issue at all for me. A third of my CD collection was ripped on one.

 

But again, just general noisiness is not really a likely result of the ripping process.

[sandyk]

I only have experience with two bus powered CD/DVD drives. They usually worked fine, but now and again would fail to work properly. All external drives with their own power have worked without issue at all for me.

 

A couple of members from another forum reported that a USB powered writer that was quite noisy and gave occasional errors, was markedly quieter (physically) and had far fewer errors when powered by a good quality external +5V linear PSU.

I use the freeware ExactFile for comparing checksums..

[JME]

Thank you very much for all your kind comments and suggestions, for which I am very grateful!

 

I must admit *embarrased* that until now I actually had not tried to re-rip those rips plagued by noise, but just now I have done so with the first one; Norah Jones: "Come Away With Me", which also was the worst one, and there seems to be no noise on this second rip that I have just made. I am naturally very happy with this, as you can imagine! :-)

 

Here is the full EAC report of the latest rip:

 

Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

 

 

EAC extraction logfile from 27. January 2014, 23:36

 

 

Jones, Norah / Come Away With Me

 

 

Used drive : ASUS SBC-06D2X-U Adapter: 1 ID: 0

 

 

Read mode : Secure

Utilize accurate stream : Yes

Defeat audio cache : No

Make use of C2 pointers : Yes

 

 

Read offset correction : 48

Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes

Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No

Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes

Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Gap handling : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

 

 

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines

Sample format : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

 

 

 

 

TOC of the extracted CD

 

 

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector

---------------------------------------------------------

1 | 0:00.00 | 3:06.12 | 0 | 13961

2 | 3:06.12 | 2:25.20 | 13962 | 24856

3 | 5:31.32 | 3:38.45 | 24857 | 41251

4 | 9:10.02 | 2:57.28 | 41252 | 54554

5 | 12:07.30 | 3:18.17 | 54555 | 69421

6 | 15:25.47 | 3:56.63 | 69422 | 87184

7 | 19:22.35 | 2:34.60 | 87185 | 98794

8 | 21:57.20 | 3:06.07 | 98795 | 112751

9 | 25:03.27 | 4:13.25 | 112752 | 131751

10 | 29:16.52 | 2:42.03 | 131752 | 143904

11 | 31:58.55 | 3:05.55 | 143905 | 157834

12 | 35:04.35 | 4:12.15 | 157835 | 176749

13 | 39:16.50 | 2:44.60 | 176750 | 189109

14 | 42:01.35 | 3:07.57 | 189110 | 203191

 

 

 

 

Track 1

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 01 - Don't Know Why.wav

 

 

Peak level 98.7 %

Extraction speed 9.6 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC 38A6EA5A

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [15E3DA02] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 2

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 02 - Seven Years.wav

 

 

Peak level 92.9 %

Extraction speed 11.6 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC FB45B025

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [4297802F] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 3

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 03 - Cold Cold Heart.wav

 

 

Peak level 91.7 %

Extraction speed 12.5 X

Track quality 99.9 %

Copy CRC 9F085374

Accurately ripped (confidence 69) [9198E79C] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 4

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 04 - Feelin' The Same Way.wav

 

 

Peak level 93.2 %

Extraction speed 13.3 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC E6916ABE

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [27AA484E] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 5

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 05 - Come Away With Me.wav

 

 

Peak level 92.9 %

Extraction speed 14.1 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC 8FA8A879

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [44B88EEC] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 6

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 06 - Shoot The Moon.wav

 

 

Peak level 93.2 %

Extraction speed 15.0 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC 9517829C

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [08B28759] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 7

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 07 - Turn Me On.wav

 

 

Peak level 93.2 %

Extraction speed 15.7 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC 532BCB2A

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [606AB526] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 8

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 08 - Lonestar.wav

 

 

Peak level 91.8 %

Extraction speed 16.2 X

Track quality 99.8 %

Copy CRC CE7709CA

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [4A0C5421] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 9

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 09 - I've Got To See You Again.wav

 

 

Peak level 93.1 %

Extraction speed 17.0 X

Track quality 99.9 %

Copy CRC B26680E9

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [F743545D] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 10

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 10 - Painter Song.wav

 

 

Peak level 93.2 %

Extraction speed 17.7 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC 67609C77

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [C23E8292] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 11

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 11 - One Flight Down.wav

 

 

Peak level 98.7 %

Extraction speed 18.2 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC CE11F232

Accurately ripped (confidence 71) [DF555472] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 12

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 12 - Nightingale.wav

 

 

Peak level 98.7 %

Extraction speed 18.9 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC 44FCD9A6

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [F7F49799] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 13

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 13 - The Long Day Is Over.wav

 

 

Peak level 91.7 %

Extraction speed 19.5 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC 2C25DE8F

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [926180BB] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

Track 14

 

 

Filename E:\Music\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me\Jones, Norah - Come Away With Me - 14 - The Nearness Of You.wav

 

 

Peak level 89.5 %

Extraction speed 20.1 X

Track quality 100.0 %

Copy CRC D9FD1358

Accurately ripped (confidence 70) [382EF9F2] (AR v2)

Copy OK

 

 

 

 

All tracks accurately ripped

 

 

No errors occurred

 

 

End of status report

 

 

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.3

 

 

[CTDB TOCID: 4ke9gPF7J4S.n88ebny7H1o5j.4-] found, Submit result: 4ke9gPF7J4S.n88ebny7H1o5j.4- has been confirmed

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The previous rip of the above cd was actually barely listenable, and certainly impossible to really enjoy.

 

Ironically, the noise I still have on way too many of my rips is similar to what can be heard right from the beginning of this video, except that it on many of my rips is even (much!) worse - although at no point is the noise so bad as to be louder than the music:

 

 

It would thus seem then that my problem could be solved by "simply" ripping and re-ripping until I am satisfied with the result, although it of course is somewhat annoying having to perform multiple rips of the same cd instead of just doing it once and have it over and done with... Perhaps it is just my ignorance or impatience talking here, but is it common that one has to perform multiple rips of the same cd in order to get a decent one without noise, or could it be an indication of an unstable/malfunctioning drive?

 

I certainly would not mind saving the >100€ on a new drive + the space on my desktop, which is already more than sufficiently cluttered with electronics and cables, but if it on the other hand is likely to save me many hours of re-ripping and in addition perhaps give me better rips, then it might just be worth it... Any thoughts on this too?

 

I hope you will forgive me for taking the liberty and taking advantage of the occasion to share just a few more doubts with you here concerning things that might impact negatively on my system's music reproducation, and which I also would be very grateful for some comments on; I use a mini-itx computer that I have built myself with an internal SSD, but all my music is stored on an external standard USB 3.0 harddrive connected to the computer with the stock USB cable. The CPU is a pentium i3 3225, 3.3 GHz, socket LGA1155, 32 GB (with intel integrated graphics) cooled by the stock fans that came with the CPU and the Lian Li PC-Q12B case, inside which the rest is mounted, respectively. Apart from my optical drive, I assume that the fans, my harddrive and its connection to my computer are the weakest links of my system at present, but before remedying any of these, I would, as just said, highly appreciate some views on these issues; which of these weak links do you consider to be most serious, and what do you consider to be the best way to solve them?

 

 

PS. I don't mind that some people do not believe in differences between cables and other stuff considered "vodoo", but, while I do believe I most often am able to hear differences, then this is not a discussion I wish to enter in this thread, as I know it can go on eternally without any agreement ever reached but often provoking a lot of unnecessary anger as well as other strong and negative emotions that I prefer to avoid. However, I do more than welcome any suggestions as to how I could improve what I suspect to be the weak links in my system, no matter the perspective and beliefs of those making those suggestions. I mean no offence to anyone, so hopefully nor is any taken.

[esldude]

Yep the sound at the beginning of the video is much like dropped or missing samples.

 

I would in no way re-rip any serious number of CD's with a drive known to throw out errors like that. Get a decent drive with its own wall wart power supply and you'll have no problems. Need not be expensive. You get the right bits and it will sound the same. Your current drive was not supplying the right bits.

[Allan F]

Thank you very much for all your kind comments and suggestions, for which I am very grateful!

 

I must admit *embarrased* that until now I actually had not tried to re-rip those rips plagued by noise, but just now I have done so with the first one; Norah Jones: "Come Away With Me", which also was the worst one, and there seems to be no noise on this second rip that I have just made. I am naturally very happy with this, as you can imagine! :-).

 

If you don't mind spending the money, dBpoweramp not only rips CDs but also compares them to a database, AccurateRip, to see if they were ripped correctly, It also allows you to attempt to correct the errors. It's probably one of the fastest rippers available, although it will adjust its speed according to the quality of the CD being ripped, another desirable feature.

 

If a number of different CDs fail the AccurateRip comparison, you can be pretty sure that the fault lies with your drive.

[sandyk]

Allan

The latest version of EAC does the same and also offers the option to search for Artwork and Lyrics.

 

Alex

[Allan F]

Allan

The latest version of EAC does the same and also offers the option to search for Artwork and Lyrics.

 

Alex

 

I wasn't aware of that, Alex. At the time I bought dBpoweramp, I believe it was the only ripper to provide that capability. It automatically finds and selects artwork, but also allows you to replace it with another selection from the ones it found should you prefer, for example, a higher resolution version.

[esldude]

I wasn't aware of that, Alex. At the time I bought dBpoweramp, I believe it was the only ripper to provide that capability. It automatically finds and selects artwork, but also allows you to replace it with another selection from the ones it found should you prefer, for example, a higher resolution version.

 

Yes actually there are few that do that, getting artwork, lyrics etc. But I see no reason not to go with EAC.

[sandyk]

BTW, EAC will also adjust its speed according to the quality of the CD being ripped, another desirable feature.

Of interest to me , is why the same content on a MAM Gold CD-R (for example) rips to HDD at around double the speed of a normal CD-R with the same binary content.

[esldude]

BTW, EAC will also adjust its speed according to the quality of the CD being ripped, another desirable feature.

Of interest to me , is why the same content on a MAM Gold CD-R (for example) rips to HDD at around double the speed of a normal CD-R with the same binary content.

 

Yes, EAC and it ability to correct errors is something else. A friend asked me to see if I could retrieve a music CD for him. It looked like you had gotten it stuck on your shoe and walked around on gravel while. It was horridly scratched, and players wouldn't even read the TOC. I had my doubts, and it took eleven hours (this on a Pentium III as I recall). It read, and read, and read it until it got the data back. There were two little one second dropouts in one song, and a tiny pop in another. The rest of it was perfectly retrieved. It really was amazing.

 

So if your reading drive is functional, ripping a clean CD accurately is not a problem.

[Allan F]

BTW, EAC will also adjust its speed according to the quality of the CD being ripped, another desirable feature.

Of interest to me , is why the same content on a MAM Gold CD-R (for example) rips to HDD at around double the speed of a normal CD-R with the same binary content.

 

Could it be higher reflectivity making it easier for the laser to read it?

[sandyk]

JME

BTW, the MD5 checksum for track 04 from the CD layer of the Hybrid SACD, as verified both here and in N.Y.C. is

8a36e003392288a579adc5f7580cd30e

 

Alex

[sandyk]

Could it be higher reflectivity making it easier for the laser to read it?

 

Allan

I would expect so, but perhaps that ease of reading also translates to improved SQ from the Gold based CDs from Mobile Fidelity etc. and wasn't just used as a marketing gimmick , just like the BluSpec format from Sony in Japan makes similar claims.

 

Regards

Alex

[Allan F]

Allan

I would expect so, but perhaps that ease of reading also translates to improved SQ from the Gold based CDs from Mobile Fidelity etc. and wasn't just used as a marketing gimmick , just like the BluSpec format from Sony in Japan makes similar claims.

 

Regards

Alex

 

Alex

 

Virtually all gold CDs from MoFi, DCC, Analogue Productions, etc., have been remastered in a superior fashion to the original CD, often from the first generation master tapes. That would be the main reason for the improved SQ. The increased reflectivity would reduce the number of read errors, another factor affecting SQ, so it helps. I own dozens of them and can't think of any instances where the gold disc does not offer better SQ. In addition, the gold discs are reputed to last forever. The only drawback is that they are usually a lot more expensive.

[esldude]

Virtually all gold CDs from MoFi, DCC, Analogue Productions, etc., have been remastered in a superior fashion to the original CD, often from the first generation master tapes. That alone would account for the improved SQ. The increased reflectivity would reduce the number of read errors, another factor affecting SQ. In addition, the gold discs are reputed to last forever. I own dozens of them and can't think of any instances where the gold disc does not offer better SQ.

 

I have several gold CD's as well. One thing I remember from at least the earlier gold CD's was how thin the coating is. You can almost see through it. Further, upon holding them up to a lamp you see quite often a number of pinpricks where light shines through as the coating isn't complete. Some early aluminum CD's had these, but it was solved. The gold CD's seemed to have an abundance of them. I assume the Reed-Solomon error correction worked or how they were made took it into account somehow as they will rip with the checksums they are supposed to have. But I wonder about the idea of reduced read errors. There are darned few read errors with CD in any case.

[sandyk]

Allan

I have been able to compare the original MAM Gold copies as sent to NYC with the backup copies made on normal Kodak CD-Rs. The Gold CD-Rs not only sounded a little better via an Oppo 981, they ripped at double the speed of the Kodak CDs to the HDD..

 

Regards

Alex

[sandyk]

Further, upon holding them up to a lamp you see quite often a number of pinpricks where light shines through as the coating isn't complete. Some early aluminum CD's had these, but it was solved.

 

The problem was due to some of the printing ink formulations used at the time, that slowly ate into the reflective layer.

 

JME

Please check your Private Messages.

 

Alex

[esldude]

The problem was due to some of the printing ink formulations used at the time, that slowly ate into the reflective layer.

 

JME

Please check your Private Messages.

 

Alex

 

No that wasn't it. These observations were with new or nearly new discs.

[sandyk]

No that wasn't it. These observations were with new or nearly new discs.

 

In addition to the printing ink problem, disc yields were often poor in the early days, and yes, some factories had control problems with the thickness of the deposited aluminium layer too.It wasn't unusual to be able to hold them up to the light and read the printing on the other side, as well as seeing some light shining through.

[thesurfingalien]

Thank you very much for all your kind comments and suggestions, for which I am very grateful!

 

I must admit *embarrased* that until now I actually had not tried to re-rip those rips plagued by noise, but just now I have done so with the first one; Norah Jones: "Come Away With Me", which also was the worst one, and there seems to be no noise on this second rip that I have just made. I am naturally very happy with this, as you can imagine! :-)

 

<snip>

 

PS. I don't mind that some people do not believe in differences between cables and other stuff considered "vodoo", but, while I do believe I most often am able to hear differences, then this is not a discussion I wish to enter in this thread, as I know it can go on eternally without any agreement ever reached but often provoking a lot of unnecessary anger as well as other strong and negative emotions that I prefer to avoid. However, I do more than welcome any suggestions as to how I could improve what I suspect to be the weak links in my system, no matter the perspective and beliefs of those making those suggestions. I mean no offence to anyone, so hopefully nor is any taken.

 

Hi JME,

 

Good to read that you have tracked down the issue. I second Dennis's recommendation to get another drive. And if the drive you have is still under warranty (quite likely for its age), you can always send it in for repair...

 

As for the improvements you mentioned... There are quite a few topics here on CA that go into the specifics. The thing is that you can only find out if something is an improvement if you try it yourself. Experiment. But I assume that is the same way you have selected your audio-components.

 

Having said that, if your PC has too much fan-noise, I would start with a low-noise fan for the case and a low-noise cooler the CPU. These can be found in abundance on the WWW. Not sure if the Lian Li case supports a standard-sized PSU, but if so you can look into a passively cooled model. These are a bit pricey though...

 

As per your request, I will refrain from recommendations regarding cables etc... You can send me a PM if you are interested in these though...

 

Kind regards,

Peter

[sandyk]

I would start with a low-noise fan for the case

Peter

Unfortunately, I have found that low noise fans often end up noisy due to PWM modulation pulses from the motherboard. Perhaps the cheap SOtM fan filter may smooth those pulses out a bit ? With an earlier PC , I ended up putting 2 x 80mm fans in series at the front of the PC , running off 12V directly. At 6V each, they were pretty quiet yet still gave a good airflow.

Another option is a low noise fan using the supplied potentiometer, or the supplied thermistor which can also be taped to the CPU heatsink if desired.

Regards

Alex

[thesurfingalien]

Peter

Unfortunately, I have found that low noise fans often end up noisy due to PWM modulation pulses from the motherboard. Perhaps the cheap SOtM fan filter may smooth those pulses out a bit ? With an earlier PC , I ended up putting 2 x 80mm fans in series at the front of the PC , running off 12V directly. At 6V each, they were pretty quiet yet still gave a good airflow.

Another option is a low noise fan using the supplied potentiometer, or the supplied thermistor which can also be taped to the CPU heatsink if desired.

Regards

Alex

 

Hi Alex,

 

All CPU- and case-fans that are connected to the mainboard are PWM controlled, even the stock ones. Do you happen to know what causes the difference?

 

Kind regards,

Peter