DAC suggestions for upgrading from Antelope Zodiac + (with Teddy Pardo linear psu)

[RubenV]

Hi all,

 

I am looking around to replace my current DAC (Antelope Audio Zodiac +, with Teddy Pardo linear psu). Maybe other people on this forum had this DAC before, and I am wondering what your next DAC upgrade was. I am using the DAC with a Arcam AV9 so I can adjust the soundlevel with the remote. It would be a plus if my next DAC has a remote and build-in preamplifier function, however this is not a fixed requirement.

 

Since I have red a lot about the Berkeley Alpha DAC II and the USB converter (and also a lot of positive reviews) I was always interested in this piece of equipment. Unfortunately I live in Europe and it is not very common to see the Berkeley pop up at the secondhand market. The USB converter should be really good to from what I have red in reviews. I currently use a PPA Studio DDC which is also to my liking. Lateley I found a very good deal on a Berkely + USB converter and I was wondering if this would be a nice upgrade or more a side grade from the Zodiac+?

 

Anyone here who has heard both DAC's, are might have owned them and wants to comment? Also, other DAC suggestions in the price range of the Berkeley Alpha DAC II +USB are welcome.

 

Currentley I use a pair of Linkwitz LX521 speakers, but I am looking into getting a nice high-end pair of cans as well.

 

 

Thanks in advance!

[coxhaus]

I have not heard the Berkley DAC II but I owned the Berkley USB Alpha and it was a great piece of hardware. I now use an AMR 777 DAC with the USB converter built-in. It also has a preamp which is one of your requirements. You might want to take a listen. There is no DSD the same as the Berkley.

[RubenV]

I have not heard the Berkley DAC II but I owned the Berkley USB Alpha and it was a great piece of hardware. I now use an AMR 777 DAC with the USB converter built-in. It also has a preamp which is one of your requirements. You might want to take a listen. There is no DSD the same as the Berkley.

 

Hi Coxhaus,

 

Thank you very much for your reply! This is very very usefull for me since you know the Berkeley DAC I. The AMR 777 DAC fits within my budget and I can also use it as a preamp. Was it big step up from the Berkeley you previously owned? Did you ever considered the Berkeley Alpha DAC II?

[parx]

I have the Zodiac Gold + linear powersupply and also use a USB-SPDif converter as I don't find the straight USB input to sound lively enough for me!

 

I am thinking of buying another DAC and in particular will be looking at the Phasure NOS at some point. Its software is very technical, and it also requires a powerful pc but I would be OK with that. Its volume control is via software. Also I am not interested in DSD and mainly listen to redbook.

 

The Chord Qute might also be worth checking out.

[coxhaus]

Hi Coxhaus,

 

Thank you very much for your reply! This is very very usefull for me since you know the Berkeley DAC I. The AMR 777 DAC fits within my budget and I can also use it as a preamp. Was it big step up from the Berkeley you previously owned? Did you ever considered the Berkeley Alpha DAC II?

 

I owned the Berkley USB converter not the DAC. The USB converter built in to the AMR 777 DAC is just as good as the Berkley USB converter with the AMR 777 DAC. The AMR 777 DAC has great midrange and detail, I just really like it. You should give it a listen especially since you want remote volume control which it has.

[RubenV]

I have the Zodiac Gold + linear powersupply and also use a USB-SPDif converter as I don't find the straight USB input to sound lively enough for me!

 

I am thinking of buying another DAC and in particular will be looking at the Phasure NOS at some point. Its software is very technical, and it also requires a powerful pc but I would be OK with that. Its volume control is via software. Also I am not interested in DSD and mainly listen to redbook.

 

The Chord Qute might also be worth checking out.

 

Hi Parx,

 

Thanks for your contribution to this thread. The Phasure is indeed an interesting DAC. I gave it a listening when I attended the X-Fi show in September of October 2013. Unfortunately it did not convinced me but that could also be the speakers and the rest of the set. To be honest I only spend a few minutes in the room because I did not like the total sound at all.

Besides the that, I spend the last months building up my digital front-end with two CAPS design streamers for JPlay and Audiophile_optimizer on Windows Server 2012 which gave super results. Therefor I belief what happens in the computer(s) is very important. For that reason (I would need to switch again to a Phasure proof system) I think going the Phasure route would be more of sidegrade instead of an upgrade.

[RubenV]

I owned the Berkley USB converter not the DAC. The USB converter built in to the AMR 777 DAC is just as good as the Berkley USB converter with the AMR 777 DAC. The AMR 777 DAC has great midrange and detail, I just really like it. You should give it a listen especially since you want remote volume control which it has.

 

Hi Coxhaus,

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. Thank you for your further elaboration. The Berkeley USB converter is considered to be among the best. That says a lot about the AMR 777 DAC. I also found one nearby and within my budget, so I hop I can soon give it a try during a listening session.

[parx]

Thanks Ruben for the reply. It's good to hear some feedback about the Phasure as I have not heard it yet. I agree the sound could be influenced by the rest of the system components which is always problematic.

 

One thing for sure is that the Zodiac is a very good sounding Dac. I think it can be improved upon slightly, so I would be interested in how you progress.

[RubenV]

Thanks Ruben for the reply. It's good to hear some feedback about the Phasure as I have not heard it yet. I agree the sound could be influenced by the rest of the system components which is always problematic.

 

One thing for sure is that the Zodiac is a very good sounding Dac. I think it can be improved upon slightly, so I would be interested in how you progress.

 

Hi Parx,

 

No problem, I find these kind of threads always usefull when ever I am looking to learn more about or to investigate potential upgrades/purchases. When I bought the Zodiac+ I was very pleased with it and I start using it with a laptop. Now I have two passive cooled streamers (caps design) with PPAStudio SATA cables, USB cable, AES cable, CF-card and usb-pci card, a DDC and linear psu's, using JPlay to stream together with Audiophile_optimizer on Windows Server2012. So I think with a real high end DAC there should be more to gain (or atleast I hope so).

 

I am willing to spend about 4 or 5k to buy a DAC that will last me a few years. Besides the Berkeley I now also consider the Bricasti M1 (which is above budget, but maybe there is a chance I can buy it on the second hand market) or something like the Esoteric D05. I hope these are a big step up in sound compared to the Zodiac+. I am not really looking to spend that amount of money for a small upgrade in sound...

 

I will you guys posted through this forum.

[coxhaus]

Just a couple of things I have noticed about the AMR 777 DAC is make sure you listen to one well broken in because they do not sound like themselves until they have about 300 or more hours on them. The other thing I have noticed is if the unit is turned off it takes about an hour to get good sound.

 

I think the best DAC I have heard is the MSB Diamond IV with high end clock and power supply. I have not heard it in my system but the system I heard it in sounded great. It is just too pricy right now.

 

I have listened to the Esoteric D05 and D03 and they are not my cup of tea.

[MikeJazz]

Hi all,

 

I am looking around to replace my current DAC (Antelope Audio Zodiac +, with Teddy Pardo linear psu). Maybe other people on this forum had this DAC before, and I am wondering what your next DAC upgrade was. I am using the DAC with a Arcam AV9 so I can adjust the soundlevel with the remote. It would be a plus if my next DAC has a remote and build-in preamplifier function, however this is not a fixed requirement.

 

Since I have red a lot about the Berkeley Alpha DAC II and the USB converter (and also a lot of positive reviews) I was always interested in this piece of equipment. Unfortunately I live in Europe and it is not very common to see the Berkeley pop up at the secondhand market. The USB converter should be really good to from what I have red in reviews. I currently use a PPA Studio DDC which is also to my liking. Lateley I found a very good deal on a Berkely + USB converter and I was wondering if this would be a nice upgrade or more a side grade from the Zodiac+?

 

Anyone here who has heard both DAC's, are might have owned them and wants to comment? Also, other DAC suggestions in the price range of the Berkeley Alpha DAC II +USB are welcome.

 

Currentley I use a pair of Linkwitz LX521 speakers, but I am looking into getting a nice high-end pair of cans as well.

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Great! I never listened to Linkwitz, and I would love to.

Did you build them yourself?

 

As for the DAC's, I am afraid I cannot comment about the Antelope so it's difficult to suggest alternatives...

 

As for a DAC with pre, I was very impressed by Linn Akurate DSM...that would be also nice to integrate into AV...

[RubenV]

Just a couple of things I have noticed about the AMR 777 DAC is make sure you listen to one well broken in because they do not sound like themselves until they have about 300 or more hours on them. The other thing I have noticed is if the unit is turned off it takes about an hour to get good sound.

 

I think the best DAC I have heard is the MSB Diamond IV with high end clock and power supply. I have not heard it in my system but the system I heard it in sounded great. It is just too pricy right now.

 

I have listened to the Esoteric D05 and D03 and they are not my cup of tea.

 

Thanks for the advice regarding the AMR 777 DAC, and also the comment about the Esoteric. The MSB Diamond is one of the best I believe (never heard it) but way out of budget.

[RubenV]

Great! I never listened to Linkwitz, and I would love to.

Did you build them yourself?

 

As for the DAC's, I am afraid I cannot comment about the Antelope so it's difficult to suggest alternatives...

 

As for a DAC with pre, I was very impressed by Linn Akurate DSM...that would be also nice to integrate into AV...

 

Hi MikeJazz,

 

Thanks for noticing, most people are not familiar with the Linkwitz designs. And yes, I have build them myself, started with no technical skills (like soldering, matching caps and so on). I started building the Orion's, but had to put the project on hold because my woodworking skills did not match the quality I had in mind. While I was looking for someone who could CNC the wood for me Linkwitz introduced the LX521. After reading it was better auditioned by Orion builders I decided to switch and build the LX521. They are totally in a different league compared to my previous Tannoy TD8's (which were also a nice pare of speakers). I now got the feeling I am a little limited by my DAC, since I also invested a lot in the two CAPS design streamers.

[RubenV]

After a lot reading to night another DAC came to mind, the Weiss DAC202. Is there anyone out there, familiar with this DAC?

[dachunter]

Hello Ruben

I had Zodiac+ with volticus which is great. I needed too better preamp so I moved on to Zodiac Gold with Volticus and it's great.

I can say much better than expected and overall performance and SQ with built-in preamp displaced the EMM dac2. Mostly because I had to have an ARC Ref3 with the EMM Dac2, but the total performance with Gold directly to amp was...well better.

Also saved money to upgrade in my main setup. I 'll come to this in a few moments.

[please note: that Zodiac gold is not a better dac than EMM dac2, but in a system fed directly the amp the result led that way].

 

In the same time I tried Weiss dac202, AMR777, Wyred, Naim, Esteric D05 and D03 and many other dacs. The Zodiac Gold with Voltiucs surpassed them all the above (and not directly to amp, but with ARC Ref3 or Ref5 loaner).

 

Notice that a good power cord is also a big step up. I found Jorma Origo a killer Power cord. Expensive though but damn it fantastic.

 

Never compared the Berkeley though.

 

So time passed and have the same thought like you to upgrade.

Quite satisfactory the Zodiac Gold it is I found out that is a tough contender. You need to add much more doh to get better performance.

After many auditions I ended up with dCS Debussy -the latest version 24/192 with dsd; also upgraded with highfi tuning supreme fuse and Jorma Origo power cord.

To cut a long story short I kept also Zodiac Gold with Volticus (more minimal no preamp) for the second system and Debussy moved to the first system (with preamp).

 

Recently I hear sirens to try new dacs; I am open since dealers bring them to me!

 

If I were you I'd try the Zodiac Platinum, MSB Analog, dCS Debussy (demo or 2ndhand), Ressonesence, Berkley and more.

[RubenV]

Hello Ruben

I had Zodiac+ with volticus which is great. I needed too better preamp so I moved on to Zodiac Gold with Volticus and it's great.

I can say much better than expected and overall performance and SQ with built-in preamp displaced the EMM dac2. Mostly because I had to have an ARC Ref3 with the EMM Dac2, but the total performance with Gold directly to amp was...well better.

Also saved money to upgrade in my main setup. I 'll come to this in a few moments.

[please note: that Zodiac gold is not a better dac than EMM dac2, but in a system fed directly the amp the result led that way].

 

In the same time I tried Weiss dac202, AMR777, Wyred, Naim, Esteric D05 and D03 and many other dacs. The Zodiac Gold with Voltiucs surpassed them all the above (and not directly to amp, but with ARC Ref3 or Ref5 loaner).

 

Notice that a good power cord is also a big step up. I found Jorma Origo a killer Power cord. Expensive though but damn it fantastic.

 

Never compared the Berkeley though.

 

So time passed and have the same thought like you to upgrade.

Quite satisfactory the Zodiac Gold it is I found out that is a tough contender. You need to add much more doh to get better performance.

After many auditions I ended up with dCS Debussy -the latest version 24/192 with dsd; also upgraded with highfi tuning supreme fuse and Jorma Origo power cord.

To cut a long story short I kept also Zodiac Gold with Volticus (more minimal no preamp) for the second system and Debussy moved to the first system (with preamp).

 

Recently I hear sirens to try new dacs; I am open since dealers bring them to me!

 

If I were you I'd try the Zodiac Platinum, MSB Analog, dCS Debussy (demo or 2ndhand), Ressonesence, Berkley and more.

 

Hi Dachunter,

 

Thank you very much for your reply. A lot of good information from someone who dealt with the same "problem". Funny you mention the Arc. When I bought the Zodiac+ I had the Arc LS-17 as a preamp (I know, not a ref but still a Arc). After trying the Zodiac+ without the preamp, I did like the sound more then with the Arc. So finally, I sold the Arc (which was a beautifull piece of equipment, and the surely counts for the Ref's to).

 

Thanks for the advice to upgrade the power cord, mine is still stock because I was under the impression that a power cord has not much influence when you use a linear psu like the Voltikus or Teddy Pardo.

 

Unfortunately, the MSB analog, dCS are a above my budget. From another user of the EMM dac2x I got the recommendation to go and listen to a model from Ressonensence. I am not very familiar with this brand but I will defenitely look into it. Since I like the Zodiac sound the new platinum model is also tempting, but I wonder if it is a big step up from the +model.

 

I also got an recommendation for you. Since about a month I use a Digital to Digital Converter which converts the USB signal into a AES signal. This took the Zodiac+ to a whole new level. Another user who also got this PPAstudio converter uses it with his dCS Debussy and he does not want to do without.

[dachunter]

Hi again Ruben,

 

Please let me know which converter this is?

I am also interested to know if such converter also exists for spdif.

 

Thanks for the feedback as well.

 

have in mind that the latest upgrade in the Debussy made it a different animal; in a good way!

I am eager to find competition. Of course I can't afford dCS Vivaldi or CH or MSB platinum or Trinity...sadly.

 

happy listening.

[RubenV]

Hi again Ruben,

 

Please let me know which converter this is?

I am also interested to know if such converter also exists for spdif.

 

Thanks for the feedback as well.

 

have in mind that the latest upgrade in the Debussy made it a different animal; in a good way!

I am eager to find competition. Of course I can't afford dCS Vivaldi or CH or MSB platinum or Trinity...sadly.

 

happy listening.

 

Ofcourse, the DDC I have comes from Paul Pang, ppastudio.blogspot.com.

 

As you can see, the device can also be used with spdif. Allthough I think you will get better results with AES.

 

Is it possible when you buy a Debussy from the used market, to have it upgraded to the newest version like you have?

Could you also elaborate a little bit more on the Weiss DAC202 in comparison with the Gold? (I can get a really good deal on the Weiss, but still it has to be a real upgrade and not a side grade).

 

The Vivaldi, MSB Platinum and Trinity are way above my budget, but you never know what the future holds for you

[parx]

Ruben, which cables do you use with the DDC? I presume they also make a large difference to the quality of the sound?

[RubenV]

Ruben, which cables do you use with the DDC? I presume they also make a large difference to the quality of the sound?

 

I use the red USB cable towards the DDC, and the red AES cable between the DDC and DAC. Both cables are from PPAstudio. The first cable I ordered there (another green USB cable) I could try out. It was way better then the Audioquest Diamond I had on loan from a dealer. After that I also bought a SATA cable from PPAstudio and was impressed again. After that I bought these red cables together with the DDC and some other stuff from PPAstudio. Excellent value/performance ratio in my opinion.

[RubenV]

I finally went with a dCS Paganini DAC, which plays wonderfull in my set. I am totaly happy with it

[Cycles2]

I finally went with a dCS Paganini DAC, which plays wonderfull in my set. I am totaly happy with it

 

RubenV,

 

I realize you posted your purchase of the Paganini DAC almost a year ago, but I'm also interested in a Paganini. I currently own an Antelope Audio Zodiac Platinum DAC with the bundled Voltikus power supply. I use a Synergistic Research Element power cable for the Voltikus and a Synergistic Research Active SE USB cable to connect my Mac Mini. I use Pure Music from Channel D as my player software.

 

I have no issues with my Zodiac Platinum DAC. I love the sound, the headphone amp and the fact that it serves as a world-class pre-amp. But as most of us that enjoy this hobby, I'm always interested to know if I can improve the sound of my system. I recently auditioned an Antelope Rubidium Atomic Master Clock and was impressed with the upgrade it provided to the Zodiac Platinum DAC.

 

Before I spend $5K for the atomic clock, I'm researching my options. I'm considering the following:

- purchase a 10M atomic clock to use with my Zodiac Platinum DAC.

- purchase a pre-owned DCS DAC (likely a Debussey or possibly a Paganini)

- purchase an MSB Analogue DAC. Not sure if the MSB Analogue DAC allows an atomic 10M clock to be added.

- purchase another DAC / Atomic Clock in the $10K range.

 

BTW, I recently auditioned the PS Audio Direct Stream and it wasn't a noticeable improvement over the Zodiac Platinum and doesn't come close once you add the atomic clock to the Zodiac Platinum.

 

I would also like to know whether the digital-to-digital converter (DDC) you purchased from Paul Pang is an improvement with your Paganini DAC.

 

Thx,

Brian ...

[dachunter]

I would like also to hear news from Ruben.

 

New things came out since then.

[RubenV]

My Paganini is still in place, and I am completely happy with it. In november this year I gave a home audition to someone else with a nice pair of Kharma speakers and Audio Research Reference amplifier and preamplifier. The streaming setup together with the DDC from PPA and Paganini where able to impress this other audiolover.

 

I heard the Debussy but the Paganini is better to my ears. Especially when you pair it with a decent DDC, which could be from dCs itself (the upsampler) of from PPA like I did. The PPA DDC converts the incoming usb signal into digital AES. Be aware that you need a DDC to be able to use usb together with the Paganini.

 

If you are coming from a dac like the Zodiac and buy the Paganini(and pair it up with a decent DDC) you are in for a real treat. It really is on a different level and when the rest of your audiochain is up to par the benefits in SQ will be huge. And then you still have the option to improve it by adding a clock.

 

I see you mentioned the Antelope clock, but keep in mind that there are also clocks with the same quality (or even better) for a better price. I looked into it once and now forget the model but it is more studio orientated. It could be interesting and financially a better option.

 

I will come back to this when I got home.

[Cycles2]

Thx for the comments RubenV. A couple questions.

 

I'm following your suggestion to convert the USB signal of my Mac Mini to improve the sound quality. What if I also purchased a DCS Paganini Upsampler in addition to a Paganini DAC? Would I still need the Paul Pang DDC or does the DSC Paganini Upsampler replace the need for the Paul Pang DDC?

 

Do you know if the DCS Paganini clock is as good as the Antelope Audio Rubidium Atomic clock?

 

Thx,

Brian ...