Sony HAP-Z1ES has arrived

[Kal Rubinson]

Surprisingly, you can't. It is not a DAC in that sense. It's more like a premium sound, fixed location iPod.

 

You have to either copy your files to its internal hard drive or connect an external hard drive to it to play music. Either way, you have to (get to?) use Sony's interface to listen to and manage your music.

.....and format the external drive to Sony format.

[ljames]

It's not Sony format.

 

I confirm that it's extfs (ext4 likely, however I am not so sure), I format an external hard drive with Sony box, connects to Synology NAS USB3 port (basically a linux box), it can read write. This way the transfer will be much faster.

 

Plug back to Sony, in settings, hit rescan-external drive, all music gets updated, no problem.

[Kal Rubinson]

It's not Sony format.

 

I confirm that it's extfs (ext4 likely, however I am not so sure), I format an external hard drive with Sony box, connects to Synology NAS USB3 port (basically a linux box), it can read write. This way the transfer will be much faster.

 

Plug back to Sony, in settings, hit rescan-external drive, all music gets updated, no problem.

Thanks. There was no information about this from Sony, afaik, and my WinPC would not recognize the drive.

[ljames]

I have also tried this Ext for Windows | PARAGON Software Group - Ext2 / Ext3 / Ext4 for Windows 7 8 xp

 

And, I confirm it will read/write on Windows too (mine is win7 with paragon). But it's also slow, as slow as transfer via network, about 20MB/s. But on my NAS box, it reaches 80-90MB/s.

 

Thanks. There was no information about this from Sony, afaik, and my WinPC would not recognize the drive.

[Skeptic]

Surprisingly, you can't. It is not a DAC in that sense. It's more like a premium sound, fixed location iPod.

And to clarify on this point - it's like an iPod Classic. The modern iPods have no problem streaming audio to/from other devices on your network.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure why this is in the "Media Server" section of the forum - it's a player.

The network is only used to transfer music to the device, it doesn't act as a server for other devices to stream from.

 

.....and format the external drive to Sony format.

Oh dear. It originally seemed like you could simply plug in an external drive that was loaded up with music and play directly from it.

 

It sounds like the external drive is only used to expand the internal storage, and you still have to transfer data over via the Sony app?

[Kal Rubinson]

Oh dear. It originally seemed like you could simply plug in an external drive that was loaded up with music and play directly from it.

 

It sounds like the external drive is only used to expand the internal storage, and you still have to transfer data over via the Sony app?

As noted above by ljames, it is not a proprietary format and one can load it up directly at the computer with the right setup. Not terribly convenient for most.

[Skeptic]

As noted above by ljames, it is not a proprietary format and one can load it up directly at the computer with the right setup. Not terribly convenient for most.

Well my point is that if you have a drive already loaded up with media (I have several 2TB drives with copies of my library) you can't just plug them in and go if it's using Ext4

[Kal Rubinson]

Well my point is that if you have a drive already loaded up with media (I have several 2TB drives with copies of my library) you can't just plug them in and go if it's using Ext4

I know, I know.

[noiseless]

Hi,

My first post here!

Please, let me start saying that I am not "terrified" of computers and I am confident to build a CAPS server following the instructions on this very informative site.

BUT I was really terrified not a long ago to understand that different Windows versions sound different and in a great margin too!

Of course, the most expensive Server 2012 sounds best but there must be something really wrong with this OS for good quality audio, IMO.

Anyway, this new Sony machine is quite appealing to me as long as the sound quality is good so any comments and comparisons with other computer based music servers + DACs in the 2K price range will be appreciated, please!

Thank you,

Ivo

[firedog]

I've gone the separate DAC/PC route so the SONY isn't for me at this point. Otherwise, I think I'd be quite tempted. I think it is quite a good deal for the features and acc'd to the reviews, the SQ, and good SQ for the price.

 

What you need to do is think clearly about what your present needs are and what they might be in the next few years. Does the Sony unit meet your needs? Can you readily imagine needing a feature in the near future that it doesn't have?

 

A DAC/PC combo lets you do pretty much anything in computer audio (if the PC has the horsepower), but has some of the hassles involved with any PC; the Sony unit gives you less freedom and only a few software choices, but is basically a "press a button and it works" device. You still need another computer on hand for some tasks.

 

Again, see: Sony HAP-Z1ES HDD Audio Player | The Absolute Sound for a comparison to quite a good DAC in a similar price category.

 

Which do you think you would be happy with?

 

Hi,My first post here!

Please, let me start saying that I am not "terrified" of computers and I am confident to build a CAPS server following the instructions on this very informative site.

BUT I was really terrified not a long ago to understand that different Windows versions sound different and in a great margin too!

Of course, the most expensive Server 2012 sounds best but there must be something really wrong with this OS for good quality audio, IMO.

Anyway, this new Sony machine is quite appealing to me as long as the sound quality is good so any comments and comparisons with other computer based music servers + DACs in the 2K price range will be appreciated, please!

Thank you,

Ivo

[noiseless]

Firedog, thanks for the reply!

I read the Absolute sound, WhatHiFi and HiFiNews reviews but some feedback from the real users is always better.

I think Z1ES will serves great my needs at the moment replacing my good but low-res Cullen modded Sonos and Buffalo II DAC but will limit my eventual possibilities for digital DSP/X-overs if taking the active amp road.

On the other hand, I see the current computer audio "trend" is towards two PCs (Control and Audio) connected together, a NAS which is a Linux running computer itself and a fourth iOS or Android based computer device for the remote - how many more do we need for a single audio playback?!? I suppose another PC will be required for eventual room-correction/X-over tasks in the future?

Cheers,

Ivo

[firedog]

I'm not so sure the 2 PC trend will really gain momentum; it's farther than many of us want to go with the number of boxes in our setups. I'm thinking about it, but at the moment am leaning against (that could change).

 

I'm also interested in DSP crossovers and DRC, and you need a pretty powerful PC for that. Of course, this can be your single playback PC or one of the 2 PCs in a dual PC setup.

 

As far as DRC, it seems that one of the devices lacking in the market is a "just does DRC box" - a type of specialized fanless computer setup to do only DRC on a digital stream and that outputs the room corrected digital stream to a DAC (not as analog to an amp); and that also will handle resolutions above 24/96. I have heard of hints that something like this may be coming to the market soon from a partership between an audio HW firm and a DRC software organization.

[noiseless]

Hm, I really doubt the current multi-core CPU with multi-Gigs of RAM systems are not powerful enough for any type of 2 channels hi-res audio processing even for the more intensive x-overs or room correction processes. May be they just want us to pay for one "new" box more.

Anyway, if Sony's good SQ will be user confirmed I might give it a try when it come available here.

On the other hand, it will cost me nothing to try the evaluation Server 2012 on one of my Thinkpads and see how the DSD remastered playback is.

Thanks for the input!

Ivo

[Kal Rubinson]

As far as DRC, it seems that one of the devices lacking in the market is a "just does DRC box" - a type of specialized fanless computer setup to do only DRC on a digital stream and that outputs the room corrected digital stream to a DAC (not as analog to an amp); and that also will handle resolutions above 24/96. I have heard of hints that something like this may be coming to the market soon from a partership between an audio HW firm and a DRC software organization.

The miniDSP nanoAVR might fit that niche.

[noiseless]

The miniDSP nanoAVR might fit that niche.

 

... and then we need to say good-bye to the native DSD playback again....

[Kal Rubinson]

... and then we need to say good-bye to the native DSD playback again....

Of course. Have you seen anything, consumer or professional, that will do EQ on DSD?

[peterlim8]

n t

[firedog]

Hm, I really doubt the current multi-core CPU with multi-Gigs of RAM systems are not powerful enough for any type of 2 channels hi-res audio processing even for the more intensive x-overs or room correction processes. May be they just want us to pay for one "new" box more.

 

Ivo

 

Agree, my indirect point was that many music servers are setup purposely with lower power components and can't do this kind of processing.

[firedog]

The miniDSP nanoAVR might fit that niche.

 

Yes, and if it does I'll be very interested.

[Skeptic]

Please, let me start saying that I am not "terrified" of computers and I am confident to build a CAPS server following the instructions on this very informative site.

BUT I was really terrified not a long ago to understand that different Windows versions sound different and in a great margin too!

Of course, the most expensive Server 2012 sounds best but there must be something really wrong with this OS for good quality audio, IMO.

Audiophiles believe the most expensive option sounds best? I am shocked!

 

In my testing there is no difference between the operating system when correctly configured (assuming you are talking about Windows 7/8 variants, which include the Server versions) and with properly functioning hardware, things like CPU usage are not going to affect audio playback at all.

Neither is the type of drive you're using, whether it's a hard drive, SSD, SD card etc. it's all played from your RAM anyway.

It doesn't matter what type of USB cable you buy, as long as it passes spec - and a $5 cable will pass spec.

Spend $30 on a Monster cable (yes, really) if you want a cable that is actually certified for data rates several times higher than the USB spec - Audiophile cables do not go through such testing.

 

The more difficult it is to use, the more expensive it gets, the better the "audiophile" seems to think it sounds.

If there is a difference, it's not one anybody has been able to measure, or demonstrate in a properly controlled double-blind test.

 

I've even seen people here saying that files can sound different even if the checksum is the same. Which is a laughable idea for anyone that actually knows the probability of what they're suggesting.

 

 

I don't really understand the supposed "hassles" of setting up a PC for audio.

 

1. Install Windows.
   
2. Install any drivers required for your hardware.
   
3. Install your media player of choice. (I prefer JRiver)
   
4. Choose your sound device in the Media Player. (ASIO if it uses it, or WASAPI if not)
   
5. Choose which formats your hardware supports in the player.
   
6. No step 6, you're done.
   

Of course there are more things that you can do, but basic setup is not difficult at all.

 

I think Z1ES will serves great my needs at the moment replacing my good but low-res Cullen modded Sonos and Buffalo II DAC but will limit my eventual possibilities for digital DSP/X-overs if taking the active amp road.

Sonos is a networked streaming product.

The Z1ES is a stand-alone media player. It does not stream music to or from other devices on your network.

 

On the other hand, I see the current computer audio "trend" is towards two PCs (Control and Audio) connected together, a NAS which is a Linux running computer itself and a fourth iOS or Android based computer device for the remote - how many more do we need for a single audio playback?!? I suppose another PC will be required for eventual room-correction/X-over tasks in the future?

Yes, it's getting kind of ridiculous. I use a single PC with 20TB of internal storage which holds all of my music and DVD/Blu-ray library. It's kept out of the listening room by using HDMI and USB extensions.

I use the JRiver Theater View interface on my TV with a remote to control music and video playback.

 

I could use an Android/iOS device as a remote, but I like to have a real remote, and I prefer the big interface on my television anyway. It's a lot friendlier for other people to use as well.

[noiseless]

Of course. Have you seen anything, consumer or professional, that will do EQ on DSD?

 

And this is very sad, isn't it, Kal?

I see that even the FIR filters inside Z1ES are done in the analog domain.

If the format was more popular they would have invented something for DSD processing until now, I am sure.

[noiseless]

Audiophiles believe the most expensive option sounds best? I am shocked!

 

.....

Skeptic, I see your point and I am happy you have found your audio (and video) nirvana!

I, myself, do not believe in exotic cables too once, as you said, they are properly speced and sized but I do believe in good, clean and isolated power supplies and there is a lot to be desired inside a PC.

Even the fact that people are talking about different sounding Windows versions is quite funny for me - never heard about different sounding OSX or Linux versions for example, though.

And it is a matter of time to see posts here about how i7 Haswell sounds much better than i5 Ivy Bridge and how dual-mono PC set-up trashes the stereo PC - it's never ending I suppose.

Back to the original Sony's topic - I like the original idea of the closed turnkey system with a simple OS, robust HDD file system and even some DSP inside. No need for upgrades, security updates and software tweaks - just pure analog sound out of it - nothing wrong for a sound system, I guess. I just need some more good user feedback and I'll be in.

Cheers,

Ivo

[Mike Mcsweeney]

Of course. Have you seen anything, consumer or professional, that will do EQ on DSD?

 

newbie here...what do you mean by EQ on DSD?

maybe my uda-1 does?

in the specs it mentions snr is 100db when eq is off, so would that infer that it has eq capability, and what exactly are you referring to...

 

 

• 
  
  • LPCM (2CH/5.1CH/7.1CH) thru HDMI : Yes (2ch only)
    

   

  [*]

  • Line Out : Yes (1)
    
  • Coaxial : Yes (1)
    
  • Analog Audio In : Yes (1 in)
    
  • Opt. In : Yes (1 in)
    
  • Other : USB (1 type A rear) PC In (1 USB DAC)
    
  • Headphone Out : Yes (1)
    
  • Pin Jack Color : Gold
    

   

  [*]

  • Output Power (JEITA 10% 1kHz 4Ω) : 23W + 23W
    
  • (4Ohms 20-20kHz) THD : 10%
    
  • 4Ohms 20-20kHz : 23W + 23W
    

   

  [*]

  • Amplifier Type : Analog
    
  • Power Requirements : 120V 60Hz
    
  • Power Consumption : 65W
    
  • Auto Standby : Yes
    
  • Number of Amp channels : 2
    
  • Speaker Impedance : 4-16ohm
    
  • Power Consumption (Stand By) : 0.3W
    
  • DSEE LED : Yes
    
  • Frequency Characteristics : 10Hz - 100KHz (+0dB, -3dB)
    
  • Detachable AC : Yes
    
  • Signal-to-Noise Ratio(A Network) (When all of EQ/Surround off) : 100dB
    
  • Tone Control : Tuned for SS-HA3
    
  • Speaker Terminal : Screw
    

 

 

 

USB DAC System for PC Audio - UDA1/ Review - Sony US

[noiseless]

....what do you mean by EQ on DSD?....

 

Mike, as far as I can tell from a simple Google search there are seams to be only two pro audio workstations capable for native DSD processing - Pyramix and Sonoma. The other soft-/hardware solutions just convert the DSD to hi-res PCM or to analog in order to process it.

The DSD playback itself requires low-pass FIR filters to prevent the ultra high frequency noise above 80-90kHz to hit the amps and eventually burn the speakers. In their new product line Sony uses analog FIR filters after the DSD-to-analog conversion.

[ljames]

To my ear, I like the Z1ES very much. Especially DSD remastering rebook CD, it's amazing.

I replaced internal hard drive to 2TB slim Seagate, and added a 4TB external USD WB my book. So with total 6TB of storage,

Now my old Mytek DSD 128 and Antelope Gold (and mac mini) can be retired.

 

Still, it will be better if Sony:

1. Support DLNA, so I can streaming;

2. Support embedded cue sheet or separate cue sheet;

 

I have sent Sony above questions and see if they will improve the firmware.