ATTENTION Current Mac mini/A+ users: Boot Mavericks from an SD card, load a RAMdisk, dismount your internal SATA drives, and pour a drink for the musicians walking out of your speakers!

[fast density]

Thank you wwaldmanfan,

 

thats exactly what i am looking for - i am deciding between a used 2012 non retina MBP (because antiglare, ethernet & firewire ports) vs a new 2013 rMBP for my firewire Mytek 192.

 

Could you please check if firewire is on PCI and SDXC Card Reader is on PCI on your 2012 MBP?

 

Thank you!

 

"I can't comment on your third question as it would seem you would need a external Thunderbolt hub to bridge a Firewire DAC to connect to the computer via the Thunderbolt port--and then someone other bridging chips (and power supply?) are introduced."

 

i have read that one user experienced better sound through FW-TB compared to FW direct. dont remember if he was using an apple computer though.

 

General question 1) if thunderbolt 2 is direct to PCI - would it be possible to have no sound degradation when one would use FW->TB and HDD->TB (vs SD card) at the same time? (2013 MBP has 2 TB ports)

 

2) can i configure A+ to disable IR receiver, Wifi and BT as long as i run that program? (and enable those again when i close the program)

[Jud]

And we should get Damien caught up on all this (though I recall sending him a link to this thread at the begging of the week).

 

Freudian slip about the capabilities we're constantly asking Damien to add in 2.0!

[tranz]

Just a little note about sharing the USB bus on the Mac that came from the Berkeley Audio Design team. On page 3 of the guide for the Alpha USB they mention to dedicate a bus for the DAC and not share it with anything. I experienced it as well when I had accidentally popped it in the wrong slot and was scratching my head as to why the system did not sound good.

 

http://www.berkeleyaudiodesign.com/Alpha_USB_User_Guide_v1_2.pdf

[elcorso]

Just a little note about sharing the USB bus on the Mac that came from the Berkeley Audio Design team. On page 3 of the guide for the Alpha USB they mention to dedicate a bus for the DAC and not share it with anything. I experienced it as well when I had accidentally popped it in the wrong slot and was scratching my head as to why the system did not sound good.

 

http://www.berkeleyaudiodesign.com/Alpha_USB_User_Guide_v1_2.pdf

 

You and Berkeley Audio Design are very right.

 

From my own research, The best USB port on the Mac Mini:

 

Number [2] on the Mac Mini 2010

 

Number [4] on the Mac Mini 2011

 

Number [3] on the Mac Mini 2012

 

By looking at the Mini from the rear, #1 is the first on the right.

 

Roch

[wwaldmanfan]

Thank you wwaldmanfan,

 

thats exactly what i am looking for - i am deciding between a used 2012 non retina MBP (because antiglare, ethernet & firewire ports) vs a new 2013 rMBP for my firewire Mytek 192.

 

Could you please check if firewire is on PCI and SDXC Card Reader is on PCI on your 2012 MBP?

 

Thank you!

 

"I can't comment on your third question as it would seem you would need a external Thunderbolt hub to bridge a Firewire DAC to connect to the computer via the Thunderbolt port--and then someone other bridging chips (and power supply?) are introduced."

 

i have read that one user experienced better sound through FW-TB compared to FW direct. dont remember if he was using an apple computer though.

 

General question 1) if thunderbolt 2 is direct to PCI - would it be possible to have no sound degradation when one would use FW->TB and HDD->TB (vs SD card) at the same time? (2013 MBP has 2 TB ports)

 

2) can i configure A+ to disable IR receiver, Wifi and BT as long as i run that program? (and enable those again when i close the program)

 

This whole thread is too technical for me. I don't know how to determine if the FireWire and Card Reader ports on my MBP are on PCI. I don't even know what that is, some sort of shared circuit board? The system hardware report does not provide any information about the Card Reader unless a card is inserted, and I do not have one. The FireWire bus is its own entity, as far as I can tell. My MBP is model 5,9. Maybe you can find the info elsewhere.

 

I do have to share the USB port which runs to my converter & DAC with the FaceTime camera, since the laptop only has two USB ports, but without the FaceTime app running, i'd like to think that it's probably not hurting much, audio-wise.

 

We all know that FireWire is a great interface for audio, and I think Apple has made a mistake by obsoleting it. I have four FireWire-enabled Mac computers, plus four external FireWire 800 hard drives. The G-Tech bus-powered 1TB FireWire drives are especially nice, because they are fast (7200 RPM), and dead-quiet, with no external PS or cooling fans.

 

If I had a Firewire-driven DAC, I would lean towards getting a Mac with built-in Firewire, even if it was an older model. I don't see how using a FW/TB adapter could improve the audio, but what do I know? The Thunderbolt port is only as good as the device connected to it:

 

A Closer Look At Thunderbolt External Storage | Other World Computing Blog

 

Regarding your second question, Audirvana does not have the ability to disable wi-fi, bluetooth, and IR automatically. Perhaps Damien can add that capability in future updates. I'm hoping that Audirvana Plus 2.0 will be able to brew me an espresso, and bake me a perfect croissant, too ;>) Wi-fi can easily be disabled/enabled from the Finder menu bar, and the other two through System Preferences with just a few mouse clicks.

[Jud]

You can get Bluetooth at least onto the Finder bar also. That's where it is with my MBP 5,5. Probably some Preference setting I've long since forgotten to show it there.

[wwaldmanfan]

You can get Bluetooth at least onto the Finder bar also. That's where it is with my MBP 5,5. Probably some Preference setting I've long since forgotten to show it there.

 

You are correct, sir.

[Superdad]

This whole thread is too technical for me. I don't know how to determine if the FireWire and Card Reader ports on my MBP are on PCI. I don't even know what that is, some sort of shared circuit board? The system hardware report does not provide any information about the Card Reader unless a card is inserted, and I do not have one. The FireWire bus is its own entity, as far as I can tell. My MBP is model 5,9. Maybe you can find the info elsewhere.

 

Don't sweat it! You are in great shape. Without knowing it, you have already proven that your SD Card Reader is not on the USB bus. Yesterday you posted a screen shot of your USB tree. If the SD Card Reader as on the USB bus, it would have shown up in that tree. Therefore, as expected for your newer MBP, the Card Reader uses its own controller (some like to call it PCIe, but I don't). The Firewire port usually has its own controller chip.

 

The above confusion is why I keep telling people to look at their USB tree, not just at the Card Reader tab in System Report. That's the only way to see if the SD card reader for a given machine is part of the USB bus or not.

 

Lastly, you state your MBP as a model 5,9. Can you give the year and processor, because all my searching does not turn up a 5,9 model. Neither Apple (How to identify MacBook Pro models), Wikipedia (MacBook Pro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), or my favorite, Everymac.com, show that model.

[Superdad]

From my own research, The best USB port on the Mac Mini:

 

Number [2] on the Mac Mini 2010

 

Number [4] on the Mac Mini 2011

 

Number [3] on the Mac Mini 2012

 

By looking at the Mini from the rear, #1 is the first on the right.

 

Roch

 

Hi Roch:

 

What did you base your 2010 port assessment on? for the 2010, no matter which port you put the DAC in (assuming no other USB devices plugged into the other sockets), the DAC shows up alone on its own Hi-Speed bus. I have not found a sonic difference between them.

 

Now the 2012 (and undoubtedly the similarly USB3.0/Thunderbolt equipped 2011) is a different story, and that is what my report yesterday (page 5, post #121) was all about. But I find there are 2 good sounding ports on the 2012, #1 and #3. #2 and #4 sound very flat as I described. And this was also evidenced in the System Report USB tree.

 

It is all silly I know. I just want people to check for themselves on whatever machine they are using.

 

Ciao,

ALEX

[wwaldmanfan]

Don't sweat it! You are in great shape. Without knowing it, you have already proven that your SD Card Reader is not on the USB bus. Yesterday you posted a screen shot of your USB tree. If the SD Card Reader as on the USB bus, it would have shown up in that tree. Therefore, as expected for your newer MBP, the Card Reader uses its own controller (some like to call it PCIe, but I don't). The Firewire port usually has its own controller chip.

 

The above confusion is why I keep telling people to look at their USB tree, not just at the Card Reader tab in System Report. That's the only way to see if the SD card reader for a given machine is part of the USB bus or not.

 

Lastly, you state your MBP as a model 5,9. Can you give the year and processor, because all my searching does not turn up a 5,9 model. Neither Apple (How to identify MacBook Pro models), Wikipedia (MacBook Pro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), or my favorite, Everymac.com, show that model.

 

My apologies, I misspoke.

It is a MBP 9,2 (A1278)

 

MacBook Pro "Core i5" 2.5 13" Mid-2012 Specs (Mid-2012 13", MD101LL/A, MacBookPro9,2, A1278, 2554*) @ EveryMac.com

[ericuco]

Definitely prefer A+ playing from RAMdisk by quite a bit.

 

First off, very much thanks to Superdad, Jud, souptin, etc. for their work on this matter. It has been extremely informative.

 

Hoping for a sanity check to date.

 

My system:

 

1) Mid-2009 MBP with internal SSD (OS & apps), 8 GB RAM (maxed out), external Oyen HDD (w/ multiple ports) connected using FW400 port per Superdad's suggestion.

2) SD card reader is on the USB bus so not really much of an option in my case, plus I am using a USB DAC. Did try loading music files onto a 16 GB SD card but no improvement as expected.

3) Modified souptin's script to only include the creation of the RAMDisk for A+ per Jud's suggestion. Saved script as an app and have it load on start-up so RAMDisk with A+ is automatically created.

4) Music files still loaded from external HDD as noted above. OS & apps on internal SSD.

 

Any other suggestions? System sounds fantastic! My DAC & associated cables are relatively new and still breaking in so it is a work in progress but still...Wow

 

In trying to balance SQ & convenience, this setup seems to work ok for me. Copying files to a SD, while really not applicable in my setup, was a little much of a hassle for me when I did try it.

 

Again, much thanks to everyone!!

[wwaldmanfan]

After getting sucked into this thread, I had to try it. Picked up a Sandisk 64gb SDXC card at Staples for $63. Reformatted it, and did a clean install of Mavericks on it, then migrated all my other files to it from my internal HD. Ran through all the Larry Moore book OSX 10.9 optimizations, ran ACLr8 v1.3.1 to eliminate the hundreds of bogus ACL errors when repairing permissions (a harmless but annoying Mavericks bug), unchecked App Nap for A+, then created a 4gb RAM disk. Unmounted my internal HD, copied some AIFF albums from my FireWire 800 drive to the RAM disk, then unmounted and powered off the FW drive as well. Does it sound better? You betcha!

 

Only drawbacks are that the operating system runs considerably slower off the SDXC card than the internal HD, and the RAM disk only holds 7-9 redbook albums, or the eqivalent fewer hi-res files, so there's the hassle factor of frequently rebooting the FW drive to reload music files and recreating the RAM disk. But, for critical listening, this was a big step in the right direction. My thanks to some very smart folks here.

[jamesg11]

Currently evaluating Jud's A+ on RamD, OS on internal SSD, music files on SD card: at least as good as A+ on SSD ...

 

If this SD card thing settles in long term, we'll wind up with our music library on cards a la cds! Let's see - a 128gb sd card gives ~25 dsd albums, ~150 cd albums, ...

[wdw]

Currently evaluating Jud's A+ on RamD, OS on internal SSD, music files on SD card: at least as good as A+ on SSD ...

 

If this SD card thing settles in long term, we'll wind up with our music library on cards a la cds! Let's see - a 128gb sd card gives ~25 dsd albums, ~150 cd albums, ...

True, the metaphor is almost like the great days of analogue..belt driven turntable...get up...put the card (album on) in...listen...etc, repeat. Ironic, that this would be the current end game in computer audio...cheers,wdw

[mayhem13]

Hey.....why not eliminate the noisy computer environment and just develop an SD card player even?....no OS required and internal memory could be proprietary for data. You can be the first to bring this megalith to market!

[esldude]

Wonder if we could develop an analog version of digital. Use the matrixing scheme from the old Quadraphonic days. Spin the disc a bit faster. Encode the digital data stream on a vinyl disc. Spin it with a heavy stable platter from quality turntables. No os, no ram, no memory, no digital anything making any electrical noise whatsoever. Then feed that matrixed bitstream of analog origin into the DAC. Enjoy pure analog digital sound.

 

Further advantages are as a digital encoded vinyl disc, dust, even substantial scratches wouldn't effect the bits being read. Heck it is what LP was always supposed to be.

[sandyk]

Hey.....why not eliminate the noisy computer environment and just develop an SD card player even?....no OS required and internal memory could be proprietary for data. You can be the first to bring this megalith to market!

They have been available for quite some time. (check ebay) The Perfect Wave Transport also plays music from 64 KB memory, and uses a similar type of ripping to EAC to read the data first. The one I heard was a very good player, but possibly limited by the ripping stage ?

 

 

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/ps-audio-perfectwave-transport-dac

[Sam Lord]

Hey.....why not eliminate the noisy computer environment and just develop an SD card player even?....no OS required and internal memory could be proprietary for data. You can be the first to bring this megalith to market!

1) I strongly urged The designer of the Prism Orpheus (pro micpre/ADC/DAC/format converter) to do this in 2008 on a future version, but he said there was too much instability in card formats and hardware, though it was something to consider.

 

2) There are many pro units that do this, but none AFAIK with an audiophile playback.

 

3) Resonessence Invicta/Mirus do this, maybe some others now.

[PhilipAC]

I also agree that music from an SD card sounds better than from an external HD. The main difference is that it is clearer- you can hear words of songs better etc. It is as if the timing of the music is preserved better. I THINK it is also better than the same music from my MBP SSD internal drive, although that is a much closer comparison. I am now faced with buying 25 129Gb SD cards!!

 

Philip

[Melvin]

Hey.....why not eliminate the noisy computer environment and just develop an SD card player even?....no OS required and internal memory could be proprietary for data. You can be the first to bring this megalith to market!

 

This one caught my eye a while ago .. QA660--SD Card WAV Hi-Fi Digital Audio Player

 

I also agree that music from an SD card sounds better than from an external HD. The main difference is that it is clearer- you can hear words of songs better etc. It is as if the timing of the music is preserved better. I THINK it is also better than the same music from my MBP SSD internal drive, although that is a much closer comparison. I am now faced with buying 25 129Gb SD cards!!

 

+1 .. although I have Mac mini with SSD. Close, but I give the edge to the SDXC card.

[sandyk]

It is possible that Alex C will find far less differences between storage methods after he tries his prototype

linear PSU. Other than perhaps confirming what Alex C. has reported, it may be a good idea to wait until he posts those results before spending big bucks on cards etc.

 

Alex K.

[Jud]

I thought one of the Auraliti lineup might have used an SD card - or was that USB? And doesn't at least one of the Resonnessence DACs provide for playback from SD card?

[Paul R]

(grin) Okay, I'll bite on this one. How do you envision a player with no OS playing anything?

 

-Paul

 

Hey.....why not eliminate the noisy computer environment and just develop an SD card player even?....no OS required and internal memory could be proprietary for data. You can be the first to bring this megalith to market!

[elcorso]

Hi Roch:

 

What did you base your 2010 port assessment on? for the 2010, no matter which port you put the DAC in (assuming no other USB devices plugged into the other sockets), the DAC shows up alone on its own Hi-Speed bus. I have not found a sonic difference between them.

 

Now the 2012 (and undoubtedly the similarly USB3.0/Thunderbolt equipped 2011) is a different story, and that is what my report yesterday (page 5, post #121) was all about. But I find there are 2 good sounding ports on the 2012, #1 and #3. #2 and #4 sound very flat as I described. And this was also evidenced in the System Report USB tree.

 

It is all silly I know. I just want people to check for themselves on whatever machine they are using.

 

Ciao,

ALEX

 

Hi Alex,

 

The same way as you, by listening. I still have the tree Mini's models, but not tested recently wit the improved A+ 1.5.10. I noticed each time A+ improves is hard to notice differences between port numbers, but, for this, previous versions are better to proof noise from some ports.

 

You are right, late Mini 2013 USB ports #1 & #3 are almost the same regarding noise, but I prefer #3. Nothing connected to other ports. For example, I when I had a SuperDrive connected to port #1, even if not in use, affected the SQ o port #3.

 

As you can see, I'm as crazy as you are...!

 

Happy listening,

 

Roch

 

PS/ If I have the mood I'll try and extra internal 480GB SSD for music storage only, I let you know.

[Sam Lord]

I thought one of the Auraliti lineup might have used an SD card - or was that USB? And doesn't at least one of the Resonnessence DACs provide for playback from SD card?

 

Auraliti, I don't think so, maybe the USB thumb drive slots will work. Resonessence: yeah, Invicta and Mirus. Some pro gear from Tascam and Denon has been around for years, here's the OS-less new Tascam DSD AD/DA recorder/player:

DA3000