General gapless issue. At wits end, please help!

[yun]

Hi fellow audiophiles, I've been having trouble getting seamless gapless playback for my FLAC files, regardless of the player I use. With the sole exception of iTunes and Pure Music, every other software leaves detectable clicks between quick tracks transitions. The players I've sampled include Decibel, Audirvana +, and Fidelio, the latter (version 1.2.3) being my favorite. I've tweaked with all the settings with no changes. I'm also using OS X 10.6.8, with Centrance DACport. Googling the issue, it seems that few others experience the same thing. Could it be something inherently wrong with my hard drive? Any suggestion would be profoundly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[Musicophile]

Audirvana does gapless without problem on my system.

[Axiom05]

Hi fellow audiophiles, I've been having trouble getting seamless gapless playback for my FLAC files, regardless of the player I use. With the sole exception of iTunes and Pure Music, every other software leaves detectable clicks between quick tracks transitions. The players I've sampled include Decibel, Audirvana +, and Fidelio, the latter (version 1.2.3) being my favorite. I've tweaked with all the settings with no changes. I'm also using OS X 10.6.8, with Centrance DACport. Googling the issue, it seems that few others experience the same thing. Could it be something inherently wrong with my hard drive? Any suggestion would be profoundly appreciated.

 

Maybe some more info would help. Have you tried using Audirvana + in standalone mode using playback via a playlist? What computer are you using and how much memory do you have? Are you doing other things on the computer while you are listening to music? Do you have access to another DAC? Have you read through the system optimization information on the Channel D website? I have had problems with A+ in iTunes integrated mode where I get pops between certain gapless tracks but these went away in standalone mode. Are you only encountering the problem with flac files? You need to narrow down the number of potential sources for the problem.

[Axiom05]

You could also convert some of the flac files to ALAC and see if the problem remains or not.

[yun]

Maybe some more info would help. Have you tried using Audirvana + in standalone mode using playback via a playlist? What computer are you using and how much memory do you have? Are you doing other things on the computer while you are listening to music? Do you have access to another DAC? Have you read through the system optimization information on the Channel D website? I have had problems with A+ in iTunes integrated mode where I get pops between certain gapless tracks but these went away in standalone mode. Are you only encountering the problem with flac files? You need to narrow down the number of potential sources for the problem.

 

So many great suggestions in such a short period of time! So, more info about my system:

MacbookPro 8,2 with 8 GB memory

I usually have a lot of apps open while listening, but reducing that hasn't seemed to help much. I currently don't have access to other DAC for cross-comparison.

Channel D's PM is actually great with gapless, however, I have little interest in it given its design.

Great advice on the standalone mode in A+! I tried it and, indeed, one previously problematic FLAC album is now gap-free! However, another album remains clicky between some tracks regardless of whether I'm using FLAC or ALAC.

What about Fidelia? I really like their sound and would love to get gapless working there.

Thanks!

[Axiom05]

Are you using Fedelia Advanced or basic? Are you using memory play in all of the music players with sufficient memory allocated? I am assuming that if you shut down all other applications and restart the computer that the problem remains? Also try disconnecting your DAC, reboot and then reconnect. Is the firmware fully up to date on the DAC? Is your USB port shared with other devices or is the DAC in an unshared port? Lots of questions but there are a lot of variables. It would really help if you could borrow another DAC from someone...

 

What is wrong with the design of PM?

[brucknerdoc]

On my system (Mac mini, Ayre dac), the only player that handles gapless effortlessly in all formats is Pure Music. I have tried all the other players out there at some time or another with none have consistent results.

 

Some, like Amarra, specifically state that gapless only works with uncompressed file formats (like AIFF, WAV) so you might want to try and convert those files that you need gapless playback and see if that works with your preferred player.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Download the JRiver Media Center v19 for Mac trial for testing gapless. It works with every DAC I've tried.

[goldsdad]

Decibel and iTunes do gapless without problem in my experience.

[REShaman]

From Sonic Studio FAQ:

 

How to play gapless files

 

A: Gapless playback is perfect for contiguous performances such as symphonic recordings or live performances. Gapless playback is now available in both Amarra/iTunes mode and in Amarra Playlist mode.

 

Amarra Playlist mode: All tracks in an Amarra Playlist will play back gaplessly as long as the sample rate is the same, there is no need to set the PRELOAD TRACKS item in Amarra Preferences.

 

Amarra/iTunes mode: From the Amarra Preferences window, select PRELOAD TRACKS and a COUNT of tracks or full album that are part of the gapless performance. Then choose a track in iTunes and the number of tracks in the COUNT field will be loaded together and played back gaplessly.

 

NOTE: Gapless Playback is designed to work with true gapless performances such as symphonic recordings, live performances and recordings that were mastered as gapless. Gapless playback is not a substitute for mixing independent tracks together.

 

NOTE: If Album is chosen for Count, please ensure your iTunes library is sorted by Album

 

NOTE: Ensure Shuffle Mode is OFF in iTunes if you are using PRELOAD TRACKS

[johnwilk]

Dear Richard

 

I'm playing the new HDTracks hi-res Ricardo Muti Otello in Amarra, playlist mode, and there's a big gap slicing apart each 'song' in this continuous performance. I see no way round this. Other continuous albums play gaplessly as they should. I suppose this is a fault of the provider of the recording. Any suggestions?

 

Best

John

[tranz]

Dear Richard

 

I'm playing the new HDTracks hi-res Ricardo Muti Otello in Amarra, playlist mode, and there's a big gap slicing apart each 'song' in this continuous performance. I see no way round this. Other continuous albums play gaplessly as they should. I suppose this is a fault of the provider of the recording. Any suggestions?

 

Best

John

 

Hi John,

 

Don't forget about the other undocumented feature of NightMarra. If you have any non-alpha characters in your song name, artist name or album name and probably a few other meta data fields it will have a shitfit. This includes numbers, dashes, decimals etc.

 

Cheers

[MarkoF]

On my system, Amarra has gapless problems when dealing with large playlists e.g. Dunedin St. John Passion at 24/192.

It appears that when the cache limit is exceeded constant access to the hard-drive interrupts the playback.

As ram is now relatively cheap, I wish they would go 64bit allowing for a larger cache.

 

I don't have this problem with Audirvana as it has a very different caching strategy.

 

Mark.

[brucknerdoc]

Amarra has had constant problems for me on my gapless classical music tracks - even current versions are no better. They state that gapless is supported only in uncompressed file formats, so you might need to obtain your HDT releases in AIFF or WAV and see if that helps. None of this worked for me, including the other suggestions you have tried.

 

I use PureMusic which plays gapless files without a glitch.

[johnwilk]

Dear Michael

 

My HDTracks are in AIFF, so it seems I'm in accordance with all Amarra stipulations. I'll try loading only half of the opera and see if that helps.

 

Best

John

[REShaman]

Dear Richard

 

I'm playing the new HDTracks hi-res Ricardo Muti Otello in Amarra, playlist mode, and there's a big gap slicing apart each 'song' in this continuous performance. I see no way round this. Other continuous albums play gaplessly as they should. I suppose this is a fault of the provider of the recording. Any suggestions?

 

Best

John

 

Dear John,

 

Just discovered your post.

 

I visited HDtracks and looked at the track names. If you downloaded the tracks and add them to your library "as is" that may account for your gapless play problems. I would remove the asterisks and parenthesis etc.

 

Unlike others who have responded to your request for help, I experience no gapless play problems and maintain my files by editing out what I know to cause Amarra to stumble.

 

Yes, other players do not encounter the same problems with alphanumerics in the track names. What is the point if one knows what works and what doesn't. Change to what works. "Quotation marks" also cause the same kind of problems only worse.

 

I have no problems with 3GB cache even playing Dunedin St. John Passion. I am not disputing other who report their problems. I am merely offering you a contrast of experiences. This is true for all of us: some of us have problems others of us do not. In some cases it is convenient to blame Amarra. Others do not have those problems.

 

If my recommendations are not useful, have you contacted Amarra Support?

 

Hope this resolves itself satisfactorily for you. There may be some symbols or other alphanumerics that are triggering the gapless problems.

 

Best,

Richard

[brucknerdoc]

Richard may be correct that my/others gapless problems with Amarra may be due to problems with punctuation and even using a preferred lossless format, ALAC in my case.

 

But, honestly, do I want to edit dozens (or hundreds) of tracks in operas - or waste disc space using only uncompressed file formats - when other programs just work without having to adopt my server to Amarra's software limitations???

 

I respect Richards dedication to helping others on this Forum to plaguing issues in Amarra - he works with them closely as a tester. But I cannot accept that Amarra persists with incompetence in resolving a basic playback issue that doesn't even affect iTunes, with which it is integrated. Less time adding a questionable room acoustic algorithm and more work on the basics might serve Amarra better. This problem with Amarra has been around long enough for continued excuses.

 

 

Dear John,

 

Just discovered your post.

 

I visited HDtracks and looked at the track names. If you downloaded the tracks and add them to your library "as is" that may account for your gapless play problems. I would remove the asterisks and parenthesis etc.

 

Unlike others who have responded to your request for help, I experience no gapless play problems and maintain my files by editing out what I know to cause Amarra to stumble.

 

Yes, other players do not encounter the same problems with alphanumerics in the track names. What is the point if one knows what works and what doesn't. Change to what works. "Quotation marks" also cause the same kind of problems only worse.

 

I have no problems with 3GB cache even playing Dunedin St. John Passion. I am not disputing other who report their problems. I am merely offering you a contrast of experiences. This is true for all of us: some of us have problems others of us do not. In some cases it is convenient to blame Amarra. Others do not have those problems.

 

If my recommendations are not useful, have you contacted Amarra Support?

 

Hope this resolves itself satisfactorily for you. There may be some symbols or other alphanumerics that are triggering the gapless problems.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Richard may be correct that my/others gapless problems with Amarra may be due to problems with punctuation and even using a preferred lossless format, ALAC in my case.

 

But, honestly, do I want to edit dozens (or hundreds) of tracks in operas - or waste disc space using only uncompressed file formats - when other programs just work without having to adopt my server to Amarra's software limitations???

 

I respect Richards dedication to helping others on this Forum to plaguing issues in Amarra - he works with them closely as a tester. But I cannot accept that Amarra persists with incompetence in resolving a basic playback issue that doesn't even affect iTunes, with which it is integrated. Less time adding a questionable room acoustic algorithm and more work on the basics might serve Amarra better. This problem with Amarra has been around long enough for continued excuses.

 

I have asked Sonic Studio many times to find a way to allow for the track metadata other programs do not stumble over. I only got as far as foreign accents in getting Sonic Studio to allow for that. And by that I mean, Sonic Studio did not do it specifically because I asked. Personally, I do not understand what prevents them from handling this so that our members do not have to edit thousands of songs. Every now and then, I remind them of this not only as an impediment to enjoying our library but as good will.

 

I'll try again before the next build is released. Sorry to all those who are contending (or not) with this circumstance. Admittedly, I spend a bit of time cleaning up my files as soon as I discovered what was triggering what others continue to experience. Over the years, I have been able to run Amarra Symphony trouble free, in part, because I edit my track data.

 

What to do?

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Less time adding a questionable room acoustic algorithm and more work on the basics might serve Amarra better. This problem with Amarra has been around long enough for continued excuses.

brucknerdoc

 

Michael,

 

That perspective could not be farther from the truth, or from my experience and the expressed consensus of member users would back me up.

 

It is one perspective to find a program wanting because of the problems with gapless play and metadata compatibility where the program has certain peccadillos that are troublesome for you and many others. That is, unfortunately the experience of others, and in my opinion is fair comment.

 

But the Dirac Live and more specifically, the iRC program now integrated with Amarra Symphony for those who so desire, is an innovative step. If you have employed iRC and are not happy, so be it. But to describe the program as a questionable room acoustic algorithm is neither fair nor accurate.

 

I realize I could have ignored the comment among the thousands of posts at CA; but one does not need to denigrate something that is positive because something negative persists.

 

I call attention to iRC not so much for your take on it as I would not want someone casually reading your remarks to stand without a contrasting POV. I am not quarreling with you as that would be a waste of time. I merely want other readers to know that the iRC program is an extraordinary program. Read the different threads for other's experience rather than just my own experience. Just to be fair. ?

 

Enough about iRC, grand as it is.

 

Best,

Richard

[brucknerdoc]

I have no quarrel with you, Richard - so please don't turn this into a personal assault. I find it admirable that you are about the only voice on this Forum that attempts to help Amarra users (warts and all) when SonicStudios voice is silent.

 

However, my point is not that IRC isn't innovative or not. And I certainly have not heard the feature as I see no reason to upgrade to Symphony for such a feature. The point is simply that Amarra should fix what is broken before adding new features, especially something as basic as gapless playback. Restricting file formats and punctuation is a weak solution for this problem.

 

It also bothers me that that in a forum where so many of us seek sonic purity in our playback systems that Amarra is introducing a feature that, by it's very nature, manipulates the signal path in even more ways than even a simple equalizer - which I would also suggest is anathema to playback purity. To each his own, as you say. But it seems to me this "feature" further colors the sonic signal and is highly questionable for playback in a quality system.

 

Michael,

 

That perspective could not be farther from the truth, or from my experience and the expressed consensus of member users would back me up.

 

It is one perspective to find a program wanting because of the problems with gapless play and metadata compatibility where the program has certain peccadillos that are troublesome for you and many others. That is, unfortunately the experience of others, and in my opinion is fair comment.

 

But the Dirac Live and more specifically, the iRC program now integrated with Amarra Symphony for those who so desire, is an innovative step. If you have employed iRC and are not happy, so be it. But to describe the program as a questionable room acoustic algorithm is neither fair nor accurate.

 

I realize I could have ignored the comment among the thousands of posts at CA; but one does not need to denigrate something that is positive because something negative persists.

 

I call attention to iRC not so much for your take on it as I would not want someone casually reading your remarks to stand without a contrasting POV. I am not quarreling with you as that would be a waste of time. I merely want other readers to know that the iRC program is an extraordinary program. Read the different threads for other's experience rather than just my own experience. Just to be fair.

 

Enough about iRC, grand as it is.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

I have no quarrel with you, Richard - so please don't turn this into a personal assault. I find it admirable that you are about the only voice on this Forum that attempts to help Amarra users (warts and all) when SonicStudios voice is silent.

 

However, my point is not that IRC isn't innovative or not. And I certainly have not heard the feature as I see no reason to upgrade to Symphony for such a feature. The point is simply that Amarra should fix what is broken before adding new features, especially something as basic as gapless playback. Restricting file formats and punctuation is a weak solution for this problem.

 

It also bothers me that that in a forum where so many of us seek sonic purity in our playback systems that Amarra is introducing a feature that, by it's very nature, manipulates the signal path in even more ways than even a simple equalizer - which I would also suggest is anathema to playback purity. To each his own, as you say. But it seems to me this "feature" further colors the sonic signal and is highly questionable for playback in a quality system.

 

Michael,

 

There are populations of Amarra users who experience problems with Amarra functioning for various reasons which may be attributed to software, hardware incompatibilities and because of certain peccadillos such as file format and hardware preferences and how they use Amarra.

 

I do not argue with perception. It is clear that your understanding of what DRC software accomplishes and what you perceive it does may be incorrect. Perhaps there is point that we might be in agreement, for example, that a room's acoustic's properties affects what one hears. How did you put it? Purity of, colors music because of the room's physical characteristics. Sound and phayical laws are not independent, could we agree with that? Some member users treat their room with physical apparatus to deal with reflections, room modes, etc. how sound moves in a room can be measured for frequency, impulse etc. the room treatments do not affect the purity or color the sound unless you consider curing or adjusting those characteristics to ameliorate their influences on the signal affecting the sounds purity and coloring it, which they do not do. The signal may be manipulated because the room treatment changes the room characteristics.

 

I am really not competent to discuss DRC well. What DRC accomplishes through software, in the case of Amarra Symphony which integrates the Dirac Live program, is to manipulate the signal and correct the frequency and impulse response and create an environment where the acoustic properties do not distort the signal.

 

We do not have to agree on the value of DRC or not. Your perspective on the value for what Amarra innovates is your own. I am not quarreling or attempting to convince you. I do find it curious that you would comment on the value of a well received innovation that you admit you have no experience. That is not argument. That is ignorance of what is accomplished. Dirac Live is not a gimmick. Ironically, you argue against an innovation that provides an environment for the music you appreciate by correcting what you claim it diminishes in various ways. If a signal reflects too early or too late or too often before it reaches you and affects the "purity" of the signal and that reflection is corrected how is that a negative?

 

Frankly, I am not interested in defending Sonic Studio. The population of member users who do not experience the problems you are confronted with, who prefer the SQ of Amarra Symphony over another program, who experience the extraordinary improvement iRC accomplishes without distorting or coloring, the population who actually employs Amarra Symphony versus those who do not, are enjoying the music even more with the latest innovation. Read the threads, if you care to. For the population that continues to experience gapless problems becuase of certain use choices have a choice: There is a way to improve their experience. Unless or until Sonic Studio makes that path easier by dealing with those impediments that some experience, one must decide what action to take.

 

This will be my last response about this matter. It is not useful to argue with the logic of what to do about Amarra's peccadillos and how Sonic Studio should conduct its evolution. Like acoustic properties that dimishes the signal's purity, the clarity is obscured by one's perception. There is no software I know that corrects that impulse response.

 

I wish you well. I wish you the enjoyment of music. How you arrive at that outcome is your province.

 

Best,

Richard

[The Computer Audiophile]

I like to think of room correction as a way to get closer to bit perfect at one's ears as opposed to bit perfect at the DAC. It's something I'm investigating with enthusiasm.

[REShaman]

I like to think of room correction as a way to get closer to bit perfect at one's ears as opposed to bit perfect at the DAC. It's something I'm investigating with enthusiasm.

 

What would make anyone think otherwise. Although, I can think of an instance when technically that is not the case: Music playing in your listening room and you're in the basement cleaning up after a leak ;>}.

 

With Amarra Symphony and iRC the Dac is playing what it is fed and I the listening am hearing a totally different experience wit iRC engaged than when not engaged. iRC corrects the frequency and impulse response for the acoustic properties in my room that in some regards takes the fineness of details and blurs them a tad. Just as the Tranquility Base eliminates (strong word) EM fields and that, too, contributes to calm, clarity of details, improved SQ. It is a win-win in my view.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

 

Wait, music is playing in your basement! I forgot.

[brucknerdoc]

I would whole-heartedly disagree since anything that manipulates the signal by its very nature allows in data that is not part of the music itself. This is entirely a different matter than what occurs naturally in our listening environments or component/cable variables (with the exception of DACs). I see no reason to rip music with bit-perfect software, maintaining neutrality of our servers with factors such as integer mode and source direct playback - only to then add information to that data based on a playback softwares interpretation of frequency rolloffs, etc. I stopped using treble/bass controls a long time ago...

 

Audyssey has done this for years - Amarra is hardly an innovator in this regard. And just as some users find Audyssey beneficial and others gimmicky, so too it will seem to be the case with similar attempts on the CA front. Obviously, it would be foolish of me to expect Richard to be in agreement with me here - he has a dog in this fight. And just as I have read and commented on the many threads extolling Amarras virtues here, I have also participated on the numerous threads to the contrary.

 

Choice is a wonderful thing. I simply prefer my playback software to play gapless tracks without jumping thru hoops - and prefer it not to remix the music as already mixed by the artists.

 

I like to think of room correction as a way to get closer to bit perfect at one's ears as opposed to bit perfect at the DAC. It's something I'm investigating with enthusiasm.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi brucknerdoc - Maybe we should discuss room correction in a different thread.

 

We rip bit perfect because we need a starting point from which to play music in all scenarios. My guess is you want to hear music as the artist intended. Room correction can be one way to do just that.