Lumin - a cheap chineese copy ?

[Elberoth]

I just found this image on another forum, showing Linn Klimax next to Lumin player. I have to say, that my eyes have opened wider than ussual.

 

It seems that Lumin have copied everything from a basic housing idea (a block of aluminium with milled compartments for each board, removable lower section, the small 'roof' that hides the cables, etc) down to the smallest engineering details - just look how the rear panel is attached !

 

They even use the same Lundahl transformers !

 

 

I have to say I'm disgusted. Chineese industry is renowed for coping stuff (you can even buy a copy of a BMW X3 in China) but those kind of practicies so far have been largely absent from our hobby.

[Maldur]

More eye openers: goldmundizator

 

Hi-End Goldmund is a Pioneer DVD player?

[Elberoth]

Well, this is different - that is a Pioneer DVD player in disguise, not a copy.

[Bloodwound]

I mean, you could either build the cabinet the traditional way or go for a milled cabinet out of a big chunk of solid aluminum. If you DO go the milled alu way, then there is NO way you can avoid "block of aluminium with milled compartments for each board, removable lower section, the small 'roof' that hides the cables, etc) down to the smallest engineering details". I dont think milled compartments and neccesary routing would classify as copying.

So I don't agree that the Lumin is a cheap copy, and I do know a cheap chinese copy when I see one. Noone would even remotely mistake these products for each other.

[Elberoth]

I agree that there are multiple of products that use cabinets milled from a solid block of aluminium.

 

Lumin however, has copied the Linn cabinet down to the smallest engineering details (just see how the rear panel is attached on both units !).

[Audio_ELF]

Be generous... LUMIN was inspired after looking at a Linn Klimax...

[Elberoth]

Yeah ... and so was Mistral with their SAG-500 speakers ...

 

 

And BTW - Linn's Kinsky software recognises Lumin as their own player ... so they have probably copied part of Linn's software as well.

[Mark V.]

Are you kidding? Did you look at the configuration of the boards? Not really a copy...

[Elberoth]

Look at the Mistarl's drive units ... not really a copy

 

And if you buy Lumin, you next step may be the Shuanghuan CEO:

 

 

(not really the BMW X5 copy )

[Audio_ELF]

RE Linn software: as its open source they can't complain.

 

Oh:Overview - OpenHome

[firedog]

Don't really have any problem with them copying the basic setup. It doesn't really matter. The 2 items are not identical, and capabilities are even slightly different. In oter words, the Lumin isn't a "cheap knock off", so I don't see why they would be required to re-invent the wheel for their product.

[Elberoth]

It is not about reinventing the wheel. It is about copying someone else solutions and time needed for proper R&D. Someohow Ayre, Boulder and lots of other companies also making their stuff from milled blocks of aluminium were able to come up with their own designs.

 

Lumin could have invested his time and money and come up with his own solution too. Instead - they decided it is cheaper to steal someone else work.

 

I think that some people have a problem with understanding that stealing IS NOT right. Even if it is only someone els work and/or intelectual property. For them, stuff like this is probably also OK:

 

 

 

 

After all - 'the 2 items are not identical, and capabilities are even slightly different'.

 

I beg to differ.

[Audio_ELF]

Copying isn't right... What is debatable is if LUMIN have copied anything from Linn.

 

As I say I think you could say LUMIN have been inspired by Linn, but unlike the car examples they really don't look the same.

 

As for capabilities, the processor - DAC interface must be different as the LUMIN supports DSD.

 

Eloise

It is not about reinventing the wheel. It is about copying someone else solutions and time needed for proper R&D. Someohow Ayre, Boulder and lots of other companies also making their stuff from milled blocks of aluminium were able to come up with their own designs.

 

Lumin could have invested his time and money and come up with his own solution too. Instead - they decided it is cheaper to steal someone else work.

 

I think that some people have a problem with understanding that stealing IS NOT right. Even if it is only someone els work and/or intelectual property. For them, stuff like this is probably also OK:

 

 

 

 

After all - 'the 2 items are not identical, and capabilities are even slightly different'.

 

I beg to differ.

[barrows]

My understanding is that the Lumin is indeed a copy of the Linn Klimax DS. Except for, perhaps, the power supply. Both use a dual mono circuit topography with 2 Wolfson DAC chips, output stages utilizing OPA 1632 opamps, and the same Lundahl signal coupling transformers. I would not be surprised if Lumin also used the exact same values for the caps in their analog stage output filter, but cannot read the values in the pictures which have been published. I believe Linn runs a proprietary up sampling algorithm, I wonder if Lumin reversed engineered that as well?

At least they copied something which sounds pretty good!

[Audio_ELF]

My understanding is that the Lumin is indeed a copy of the Linn Klimax DS.

With such a statement - can you give a reference for where your "understanding" comes from? Is this anything more than forum/internet chat?

 

Except for, perhaps, the power supply. Both use a dual mono circuit topography with 2 Wolfson DAC chips, output stages utilizing OPA 1632 opamps, and the same Lundahl signal coupling transformers. I would not be surprised if Lumin also used the exact same values for the caps in their analog stage output filter, but cannot read the values in the pictures which have been published. I believe Linn runs a proprietary up sampling algorithm, I wonder if Lumin reversed engineered that as well?

I believe Lumin missed out the FPGA with upsampling algorithm.

 

I really think you need to be very careful when accusing someone of plagurism. If it uses the Open Source software Linn developed, well then they are free to do that. It doesn't even copy every feature of the Linn firmware as (afaik) there is no multi-room streaming available and doesn't support Songcast. Really all you can say is LUMIN saw a market (Linn's streamers) and took inspiration and have marketed (agressively) to Linn customers (and potential customers).

 

At least they copied something which sounds pretty good!

Thats true!

 

Eloise