Headless mac remote software (Splashtop) hinders sound quality?

[nununo]

Hello,

 

I'm in the process of optimising my MacMini to serve as my sole audio source to the rest of my system.

 

I've been reading here two contradictory approaches:

 

1. Run as few apps as possible. If possible only your player (A+ in my case). Everything interferes with the SQ.

vs

2. Use something like Splashtop to control the MacMini remotely and get rid of display, mouse and keyboard.

 

Since Splashtop (or whatever) has to transfer everything happening in the MacMini screen to the remote client, I'd say it must do quite a lot of screen scrapping, even when you're not interacting with it.

 

Has anyone found that a headless MacMini (running the inevitable screen scrapping server) sounds worse than a MacMini with display and bluetooth mouse and keyboard?

 

Cheers,

Nuno

[souptin]

Since Splashtop (or whatever) has to transfer everything happening in the MacMini screen to the remote client, I'd say it must do quite a lot of screen scrapping, even when you're not interacting with it.

 

For me this, as well as the comparison between a VNC based remote and bluetooth, are key questions for the paranoid audiophile. I'd add the Apple Remote app to the mix as well, where relevant.

 

One thing I have noticed with VNC programs, is that the transmission of screen data is not a constant - if you have a video playing, then the computer is clearly doing more work (eg, the fan comes on). So it's an 'intelligent' process. In situations where there is very little on-screen change (as with most music playback, unless you're addicted to the iTunes visualiser) I suspect there's much less work being done.

 

You can of course disconnect a VNC app once you have decided what album to play. Not sure if this is the case with bluetooth peripherals.

 

Sorry I can't give more technical insight into what's going on inside the computer in each case, would be great to hear from someone who has a bit more info.

[ted_b]

I use Splashtop (on my Win 2012 machine and ipad). Yes, these kinds of remote desktops are somewhat cpu intensive, but the solution is somewhat simple in my book (but I might be missing something) : do not use them to play music..just use them for maintenance functions. I only open and then close Splashtop to make sure things are fine for music playback, or if I encounter an issue. They should be closed for actual music listening. Then I use a remote control like JRemote (for JRiver, for example) or Apple remote (for A+). The only fly in this ointment is A+ desktop GUI (rather than iTunes integration). Then you are forced to use a desktop, and then it's tradeoffs; a trade off using the VNC during playback (an not having iTunes involved) vs. having iTunes involved and using Applre Remote app..

[nununo]

Thank you both. Understood ted_b. That makes sense.

[wgscott]

Use it to set everything up, then turn it off, and control via IR or Remote.app or something like that.

 

Splashtop tries to install Soundflower. You can prevent it from doing that (or remove it) if needed.

 

I found Apple Screen Sharing (VNC) much less CPU-demanding and more convenient (from my laptop or iMac).

[nununo]

Right. Undestood. Thanks.

 

But Apple Screen Sharing is expensive, right? Or am I thinking about something else? Can you provide a link?

[souptin]

Right. Undestood. Thanks.

 

But Apple Screen Sharing is expensive, right? Or am I thinking about something else? Can you provide a link?

 

You're possibly thinking of the Apple Remote Desktop program, which quite expensive, and way overkill for this purpose. Apple Screen Sharing is already built in, though I forget exactly which generation of Apple OS it arrived with. Should be available as an option when you try to connect to your music mac from another mac (not from iPod / iPad though - you'll need Splashtop or similar for that)

[nununo]

Oh my! I didn't know this! Just tried it and it worked. So simple! Silly me.

Thank you!

[wgscott]

Right. Undestood. Thanks.

 

But Apple Screen Sharing is expensive, right? Or am I thinking about something else? Can you provide a link?

 

I'm talking about the one that is built into OS X for free.

[nununo]

I'm talking about the one that is built into OS X for free.

 

yes I got it. And I didn't know it was there, built in. I tried it and it works just fine.

 

So, I can do just fine without Splashtop until I get myself an iPad. One less thing running in the Mac Mini.

 

Thanks,

Nuno

[wgscott]

It still runs something (a VNC server), but at least it is less computationally demanding.

[nununo]

In the Splashtop case... when you say you shut it down when you're not listening to music... you mean you actually stop the Splashtop server? Or you just disconnect any client?

 

I guess if you stop the server you'll need to connect some kind of display and peripherals in order to start it again, right? So I guess I answered my own question...

 

Then the same goes for the built in VNC server... If I decide to go for the headless Mac Mini, I guess one of those servers will have to always be running, right?

 

Nuno

[souptin]

Then the same goes for the built in VNC server... If I decide to go for the headless Mac Mini, I guess one of those servers will have to always be running, right?

 

There's a program called "Activity Monitor" in your Applications/Utilities folder. It can be a bit cryptic, but gives some insight into what processes are running, and how much cpu time they are using.

[wgscott]

I also use this (free): Raging Menace - MenuMeters

 

Let's me keep an eye on all the processors (and network and memory use) simultaneously at the same time all at once together and concurrently:

 

[jotauve]

I use Apple Screen Sharing (free) activated and Remoter VNC on the iPad. From the iOS app you can disconnect and reconnect very quickly to the Mac, if you are going to listen to a playlist do not need to be connected while the music is playing.

If your system is resolving enough every single bit that you unload from the CPU improves the realism.

I control the volume from the DAC so I do not need to connect to the Mac while listening.

This is the best scenario I found so far.

[LBob]

I use my iPad with a combination of Jump which I use to start up Audirvana and iTunes and the Apple Remote App (which is free) to select and play the tunes. I like the Apple Remote GUI much better than screen sharing.

[jamesg11]

Use it to set everything up, then turn it off, and control via IR or Remote.app or something like that.

 

Splashtop tries to install Soundflower. You can prevent it from doing that (or remove it) if needed.

 

I found Apple Screen Sharing (VNC) much less CPU-demanding and more convenient (from my laptop or iMac).

 

Noticed soundflower lurking on the mini - how do I rid myself of it? & where is Screen Sharing set up from on iPad? ...

[AMP]

Although I've been using JRiver running on a W7 bootcamp partition lately I came up with a couple of very useful apps for controlling the Mac side. My environment was/is Mountain Lion on a headless mini i7 running iTunes and Audirvana.

 

Although I liked the Apple Remote app I had issues with the latest release in which browsing by genre resulted in a list of albums (and tracks) sorted by artist. In the case of classical I have over 1600 albums and this list was completely unmanageable. So I went looking for something else...

 

Ultimately, I found an Android app called Retune which is a VERY good remote app for controlling iTunes. In fact, it's what the Apple app wants to be when it grows up. You need an Android device running a relatively recent OS, but if it's only used for remote control then you can get away with something cheap. In my case I hacked a first generation Kindle Fire to run Android 4.2 and it worked perfectly. The developer is actively updating the app and is very responsive to requests.

 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.squallydoc.retune&hl=en

 

The other useful app that I came across runs on iOS and is called RowMote. This is billed as an iOS replacement for the Apple infrared remote, but that's just the base of its functionality. If the system has a monitor attached it can be used as a keyboard and trackpad, but the most useful functionality is its ability to control the apps running on the system. There's a lightweight process that runs on the Mac and enables RowMote control. Within RowMote you can see what apps are currently running, launch / quit apps as needed, and shutdown or reboot the system.

 

In my case I have my library stored on a NAS share which is accessible from any machine on my network. I use the Mini solely for browsing and playback while using my iMac for tagging and library management. Since iTunes can only run on one system at a time I could use RowMote to kill iTunes on the Mini when I wanted to access the library from another machine. When it came time to listen I could use RowMote to launch Audirvana which would in turn launch iTunes. It got to the point where I rarely needed to use remote desktop to access the Mini. HIGHLY recommended.

 

Rowmote Pro | Regular Rate & Rhythm

 

I couldn't find anything nearly as useful as Rowmote on Android, but since I always have my iPhone with me and usually have an iPad floating around too I never found having to use the two platforms as a problem.

 

Not affiliated with either app... just a satisfied user.

[wgscott]

Noticed soundflower lurking on the mini - how do I rid myself of it? & where is Screen Sharing set up from on iPad? ...

 

I have it. It won't likely harm anything, but if you want to get rid of it, look in /System/Library/Extensions

 

Delete the soundflower files, and when you next reboot, it will be history.

[Superdad]

I can't recall, but I think I once compared (just with Activity Monitor, not by ear) Apple Screen Sharing versus Apple Remote Management and found the latter to be less intensive. They look and work the same, but I think a couple less processes are invoked. Just go to System Preferences>Sharing, and set up Remote Management instead of Screen Sharing.

I don't have time or inclination to reinvestigate this, but if someone else notes and can explain the difference between the two, that would be welcome.

 

--Alex

 

P.S. I am kind of excited that I have on order a new quad-core i7 mini and 16GB of RAM. Not for my music server (my 2010 Core 2 Duo is great for that), but for the desktop across the room that I do everything else on. Will be a nice step-up from my 2011 2.3GHz i5 (going to my step-father). I waited until today to order it in case Apple announced the expected mini refresh (Haswell chip and dedicate GPU). Guess that won't be out until end of the year.

Anybody here seriously thinking about getting the new (and as yet unpriced) Mac Pro cylinder? Bill, you'll be first in line, right?

[Bob Stern]

I have it. It won't likely harm anything, but if you want to get rid of it, look in /System/Library/Extensions

 

Delete the soundflower files, and when you next reboot, it will be history.

 

My recollection is that OS X loads extensions from a cache when it reboots, so you have to do something special to unload extensions in addition to deleting the .kext file.

 

Will rebooting while holding down the Shift key suffice? I believe that deletes most system caches.

 

2 other alternatives:

 

1:

Execute the following command in Terminal, then reboot:

sudo touch /System/Library/Extensions/

 

2:

Delete and empty trash for the three (3) following files and directories, then reboot:

/System/Library/Extensions.mkext (a file)

/System/Library/Caches/com.apple.kernelcaches (a directory)

/System/Library/Caches/com.apple.romextensions (a directory)

The last directory might not exist.

[Bob Stern]

Since iTunes can only run on one system at a time I could use RowMote to kill iTunes on the Mini when I wanted to access the library from another machine. When it came time to listen I could use RowMote to launch Audirvana which would in turn launch iTunes. It got to the point where I rarely needed to use remote desktop to access the Mini. HIGHLY recommended.

 

How did you get RowMote to launch Audirvana? When I looked at RowMote, it appeared capable of controlling only those applications for which the vendor already had configured it. Is that true? Then again, if all you want to do is launch Audirvana without actually controlling it, perhaps RowMote can do this via a Finder command rather than a command directed to Audirvana.

[Bob Stern]

I am kind of excited that I have on order a new quad-core i7 mini and 16GB of RAM. Not for my music server (my 2010 Core 2 Duo is great for that), but for the desktop across the room that I do everything else on. ... I waited until today to order it in case Apple announced the expected mini refresh (Haswell chip and dedicated GPU). Guess that won't be out until end of the year.

 

My music player also is the 2010 Mini Core2Duo with 8 GB RAM. Perhaps because of my Metric Halo software, I do not think it is adequate. Every once in a while I get static which I suspect is due to CPU overload. It seems mostly likely to occur if the Metric Halo software is running and Audirvana is playing while loading a track into RAM. Activity Monitor shows that Metric Halo only uses a few percent CPU time if it is hidden, but I suspect something is performing very brief bursts of extreme CPU activity that is not revealed by Activity Monitor. (I have Audirvana set to disable the 4 specified system processes.)

 

I didn't know a Mini refresh was imminent. I look forward to that!

[AMP]

How did you get RowMote to launch Audirvana? When I looked at RowMote, it appeared capable of controlling only those applications for which the vendor already had configured it. Is that true? Then again, if all you want to do is launch Audirvana without actually controlling it, perhaps RowMote can do this via a Finder command rather than a command directed to Audirvana.

 

 

IIRC, "it just worked."

 

It's been a few months since I setup Rowmote so I can't remember what I had to do to get it to work. If memory serves Rowmote needs to be "aware" of the application in order for it to show in the list, but it will show all of the applications in the computer's dock in its own row of dock icons across the bottom of the screen. In other words, if it's in your computer's dock then it will show in Rowmote's dock.

 

Having said that, the interesting thing about Audirvana is that it does show up in Rowmote's application list which would imply that Rowmote knows more about it than other atypical apps. In contrast, JRiver only showed up in the dock, but not the application list.

 

In either case, Rowmote has the ability to start and stop the application regardless of any enhanced functionality which may be available. The feedback of whether or not the app is running (the dot in Rowmote's dock) also appears to work regardless of Rowmote's awareness of the application.