Help on Building Nearfield Desktop System

[SilverLitz]

I need help deciding which way to go regarding building my nearfield, desktop audio system, with 2-3 feet between speaker and ear. I am building a high value, moderate cost, but high quality system for my computer, a PC running JRiver being fed by uncompressed WAV files from my NAS. I consider myself a high-value audiophile, and my music taste is every eclectic (jazz, classical, pop/rock, bluegrass/country), but mainly acoustic (though I love Pink Floyd). I will be looking at both self-powered and passive speakers.

The speakers currently on my radar include: Focal 706V, Focal 705V, KEF Q300, KEF Q100, KEF LS50, KEF X300A (powered), Focal XS Book (powered), Emotiva Pro airmotiv4/5/6/Stealth6 (powered), Adam A5x (powered), Audioengine P4, and Audioengine A5+ (powered).

If I go for passive speakers, I would add a modest USB DAC/amp (possibly NuForce DDA-100 or TEAC AH-01) to drive the speakers. Powered speakers such as the Emotiva’s, Focal XS Book and Audioengine A5+ would need USB DAC (Schiit Bifrost Uber), while the KEF X300A would not require anything else.

My first decision would have to be regarding which speakers. Sound quality is my main concern, as I desire speakers that are transparent and refined, and will tolerate sins of omission more than sins of commission. I also am concerned about the drivers integrating coherently at 2-3 feet distance. I would expect that the KEF Uni-Q drivers would have an advantage in this respect. Would the larger Focal 706V work well in a nearfield, desktop application, and its drivers integrate at 2-3 feet between speaker and ear?

I am familiar with Focal drivers, as 15 years ago as I built a set of DALINE transmission line speakers using twin Focal 6.5" Polyglass drivers and Focal Tioxid tweeters in D'Appolito towers (double boxed, with high purity silver wiring). These are still my reference speakers driven by my DIY Nelson Pass bi-amp Zen mono-block amps (single stage, Class A), DIY Bride of Son of Zen preamp (Class A), with DIY high purity silver interconnects and speaker cable.

I am totally unfamiliar with the sound quality of the KEF, Emotiva, Adam, and Audioengine speakers, though they seem to be well thought of.

What are your suggestions/comments regarding the electronic options between the NuForce DDA-100 and TEAC AH-01? (Though the TEAC has $100 higher MSRP, it can be bought about $200 cheaper.)

What are your suggestions/comments regarding the following system options, in a nearfield, desktop application:

1) KEF X300A (5.25” Uni-Q, bi-amp, DAC), nothing else necessary, ($800 retail, $800 street)

2) KEF Q300 (6.5” Uni-Q) with:

a. NuForce DDA-100, (total system: $1,200 retail, $1,050 street)

b. TEAC AH-01, (total system: $1,300 retail, $850 street)

3) KEF Q100 (5.25” Uni-Q) with:

a. NuForce DDA-100, (total system: $1,100 retail, $950 street)

b. TEAC AH-01, (total system: $1,200 retail, $750 street)

4) KEF LS50 (5.25” Uni-Q) with:

a. NuForce DDA-100, (total system: $2,050 retail, $1,650 street)

b. TEAC AH-01, (total system: $2,150 retail, $1,400 street)

5) Focal 706V (6.5” Polyglass woofer, 1” Al/Mg TNV tweeter) with:

a. NuForce DDA-100, (total system: $1,250 retail, $950 street)

b. TEAC AH-01, (total system: $1,350 retail, $750 street)

6) Focal 705V (5.25” Polyglass woofer, 1” Al/Mg TNV tweeter) with:

a. NuForce DDA-100, (total system: $1,050 retail, $875 street)

b. TEAC AH-01, (total system: $1,150 retail, $675 street)

7) Focal XS Book (powered, 4.0” Polyglass woofer, 0.75”Al tweeter) with:

a. Schiit Bifrost Uber USB DAC, (total system: $920 retail, $820 street)

b. Other USB DAC ???

8) Audioengine P4 (4” Kevlar woofer, 0.75” silk tweeter) with:

a. NuForce DDA-100, (total system: $800 retail, $800 street)

b. TEAC AH-01, (total system: $900 retail, $600 street)

9) Audioengine A5+ (powered, 5” Kevlar woofer, 0.75” silk tweeter) with:

a. Schiit Bifrost Uber USB DAC, (total system: $920 retail, $920 street)

b. Other USB DAC ???

10) Emotiva Pro airmotiv4 (bi-amp, 4.5” woofer, Heil tweeter) with:

a. Schiit Bifrost Uber USB DAC, (total system: $870 retail, $870 street)

b. Other USB DAC ???

11) Emotiva Pro airmotiv5 (bi-amp, 5.25” woofer, Heil tweeter) with:

a. Schiit Bifrost Uber USB DAC, (total system: $970 retail, $970 street)

b. Other USB DAC ???

12) Emotiva Pro airmotiv6 (bi-amp, 6.5” woofer, Heil tweeter) with:

a. Schiit Bifrost Uber USB DAC, (total system: $1,220 retail, $1,220 street)

b. Other USB DAC ???

13) Emotiva Pro Stealth6 (bi-amp, 6.5” woofer, Heil tweeter) with:

a. Schiit Bifrost Uber USB DAC, (total system: $1,620 retail, $1,620 street)

b. Other USB DAC ???

14) Adam A5x (bi-amp, 5.5” woofer, X-ART tweeter) with:

a. Schiit Bifrost Uber USB DAC, (total system: $1,520 retail, $1,520 street)

b. Other USB DAC ???

So my current possibilities run from $600 (Audioengine P4, w/ TEAC AH-01) to $1,650 (KEF LS50, w/ NuForce DDA-100). I will be looking for best bang for the buck, but willing to pay up for meaningful SQ improvement. I would also value to non-powered speaker options slightly higher due to more future flexibility.

Your suggestions/comments are welcome. Thanks!

[wgscott]

I have exactly the same question.

[Audio_ELF]

At the distances involved ... I would eliminate all the HiFi speakers - thats most of the Focal and KEF.

 

That leaves KEF X300A, Focal XS Book, the Emotiva and Adam speakers and the AudioEngine.

 

The AudioEngine are okay for the money but I think several options will be superior for not much more.

 

Personally I would start with looking at the KEF ... but only if you are happy with 24/96 and really only want the USB input.

 

Eloise

[SilverLitz]

At the distances involved ... I would eliminate all the HiFi speakers - thats most of the Focal and KEF.

 

That leaves KEF X300A, Focal XS Book, the Emotiva and Adam speakers and the AudioEngine.

 

The AudioEngine are okay for the money but I think several options will be superior for not much more.

 

Personally I would start with looking at the KEF ... but only if you are happy with 24/96 and really only want the USB input.

 

Eloise

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

I would think the limiting factor at close distances would the distance between the drivers (closer being better), and possibly some crossover relating lobing effects (wave interference patterns; more complicated). Are there other nearfield issues that come into play? (I am definitely NOT an expert.)

 

I would expect that since all the KEF's have Uni-Q drivers, they would all integrate coherently at close distances, and the KEF Q100 seems to be a passive version of the X300A, but having the port in front instead of in back.

 

All the other speakers, HiFi and powered have non-coincident drivers, they all could have possible driver blending issues at short distance. I have read a review of the Focal 705V in the TAS by Steve Stone a 4-5 years ago, in which he commented that the 705V was a very good nearfield speaker.

[Audio_ELF]

I may be wrong, but I believe the drivers are constructed slightly differently to allow for a narrower or wider dispersion if (for example) you compare the X300a and the Q100

 

The passive version of the X300a is the LS50 - or more the X300a was based on the LS50.

 

Eloise

[christopher3393]

What are the dimensions of the room? Would you consider the Focal CMS50? Also Dynaudio 110A? Among the active monitors you listed, I would choose the Adams. I would skip Emotiva, Focal XS Book, and Audioengine: all good, just not up to the performance of some of your other choices, in my opinion. Among the passives you listed, the KEF LS50 is the one I would choose. Happy hunting.

[SilverLitz]

I may be wrong, but I believe the drivers are constructed slightly differently to allow for a narrower or wider dispersion if (for example) you compare the X300a and the Q100

 

The passive version of the X300a is the LS50 - or more the X300a was based on the LS50.

 

Eloise

 

I have read a professional review, that directly stated the X300a is NOT a passive version of the LS50 (which would have been an odd given the LS50 is $1500, and X300a is $800 and includes DACs and amps). I believe that review also stated the X300a has the same driver as the Q100 (seems more plausible as the Q100 is $550, $250 less but no DAC/amp). The Q300 has a larger (6.5" vs. 5.25") version of the Uni-Q driver with better bass response for $100 more than the Q100.

 

The LS50 also has more sophisticated cabinet, and probably much quieter. In my experience a sonically inert cabinet is a BIG plus. The speakers I built in my main system, Focal drivers in MTM transmission line towers, are double boxed, resulting in 1.5" walls and weighing 110lbs each. The result is that knuckle rapping sound like rapping on a large solid rock, and I notice very subtle details (such a reflection from the studio mixing room glass window, and more important vocal emotional nuances) that were obscured on my prior high quality speakers. I would expect that the benefits of a "good" cabinet would be even more important at the 2-3ft listening distance.

[SilverLitz]

What are the dimensions of the room? Would you consider the Focal CMS50? Also Dynaudio 110A? Among the active monitors you listed, I would choose the Adams. I would skip Emotiva, Focal XS Book, and Audioengine: all good, just not up to the performance of some of your other choices, in my opinion. Among the passives you listed, the KEF LS50 is the one I would choose. Happy hunting.

 

It will be in a nearfield desktop situation, 2-3ft from speakers to ear, so I would not expect much room related complications (may be wrong). That said my computer is in a 10' by 8' alcove in a much larger basement.

 

I am unfamiliar with Focal CMS50, but definitely would consider them, as I have good experience with Focal drivers (enjoyed them in my main system for 15yr; resolving but not hyped; sound like music). MusicDirect has very high regard for the Focal 706V compared with XS Book or AudioEngine.

Thanks for adding a new speaker to the mix!

[SilverLitz]

My quick read on Focal CMS50 is that they are very good speakers, with SQ characteristics that I like. The downside is that they are much more expensive than Focal's passive HiFi line, $1600/pr vs. $500 for 705V. Factory repacks available for $950 vs. demo 705V at $325.

 

It seems that the Focal CMS50 uses the same drivers as 705V, but has a significantly better cabinet (Aluminum vs. MDF, and visually the contouring probably has better diffusion characteristic), adds bi-amps (linear, A/B, 80W & 50W), has a slot port instead of round port, adds a phase plug on tweeter, and has some equalization adjustments. Focal CMS50 bass response goes down 10Hz lower than the 705V. It is good that Focal states that the Focal CMS50 works well as close as 50cm.

Comparing the Focal CMS65 vs. 706V is a similar comparison, with higher cost $2,000 ($1,800 street) vs. $700 ($400 demo).

It also seems that Focal CMS50 is better choice than Adam's, as the Focal's are more natural sounding and less fatiguing.

It looks like I have scratched off my list: Adam's, Audioengine, and Focal XS Book.

 

 

[mayhem13]

Welcome SilverLitz....I applaud your efforts and investigations at building a great desktop system which has some very distinct characteristics in playback. Some points if I may....

 

Your assessment of resonant free enclosures rings true....but in the case of such small enclosures really shouldn't be a problem. Shorter panel lengths are easily braced effectively and small drive units with weak motor strength don't often create such resonant destructive forces that are audible in a reasonably constructed enclosure.

 

Kef and other coincident drivers.....as with all things, there's eminent tradeoffs. While the point source attributes of these drivers has their benefits, so too comes rough frequency response and unusually abundant diffraction artifacts UNLESS accounted for in the design. IF the midwoofer cone is asked to play deep, in order to do so, the cone must move more, simplistically put. As such, what would be normally smooth HF content from the centrally mounted tweeter is instead met with a 'moving' waveguide or lens.....hardly an optimum situation, particularly in the nearfield where you'll be listening. I suggest listening to the KEFs closely comparing them to similiar sized 2 way systems to see if you find the effects offensive.

[edn4x4]

SilverLitz

 

Something not on your list and if you live in the US and can try this program:

http://www.magnepan.com/model_mini_maggie

 

I started out looking for a good nearfield desktop with the Emotiva Pro airmotiv6 - way too big for my desktop - they did sound great though. I now have a dedicated room with Magnepan 1.7s....

 

I heard the mini maggies at the dealer and if I didn't get to go with a dedicated room, I would most certainly been very happy with the mini maggie setup. Google up on the minis - there are several great reviews on them. With the type of music you listen to, these are a perfect match.

Another "benefit" is they are very directional and will not excite the room nodes as much as the non-planars will. At least in my house this meant that the house wasn't shaking - keeping the wife happy...

good luck

[maelob]

Clairudient The One speakers (1k) with a Wadia power Dac 800 would be an awesome simple little system. I have the mini Maggie's and they are awesome, really three dimensional and I believe the wadia power dac could drive them since Magnepan will sell it with the maggies. But I recommend getting a sub if you like bass. I have an affordable HsU sub paired with the mini maggies and I am really happy.

[PorkChop]

It also seems that Focal CMS50 is better choice than Adam's, as the Focal's are more natural sounding and less fatiguing.

 

That was my conclusion as well. I was able to audition both at the same time in my own listening environment, and the CMS's had significantly more detail and clarity in the 250 Hz - 4 kHz range.

 

Because of space constraints, I ended up with CMS-40. They resolve almost perfectly at only 30" away. I know you targeted CMS-50's....just letting you know you can still get excellent near-field sound with the 40's (with the right tweaks i.e. stands, etc.)

[SilverLitz]

The more I read about the Focal CMS50, the more I am starting to converge on them. I am emotionally the most comfortable with Focal, having lived with Focal drivers in my "good" system for 15 years.

 

Focal says that CMS50 work good as close as 50cm (19") and the CMS65 at 60cm (24"). My current desktop has my ears ~29" from my small speakers, so both sizes should work well, but the CMS50 would probably work a little better. The CMS65 is also too pricey for me. Given that CMS50 and 705V, as well as the CMS65 and 706V have the same drivers and visually the distance between woofer and tweeter seem to be ~ the same, I assume that the 705V and 706V would also work fine in my nearfield situation as well. The outside dimensions of the CMS's are ~1" less in each dimension that the similar 700V speaker, a difference that I suspect is due to the CMS's aluminum cabinet (which would have thinner walls) vs. the 700V's MDF cabinet, yielding similar interior volumes.

 

Right now my decision is between the CMS50 w/ DAC and the 706V with the NuForce DDA-100. I expect that the CMS50 would be somewhat better in the nearfield, since it is specifically designed that application, and I expect it to work at 10cm closer distance. CMS50 being bi-amped w/ 80W+50W with electronic crossovers and EQ adjustments would be a plus vs. the NuForce DDA-100's 50W/ch. Though I expect the NuForce DDA-100 may be quieter (plus at close distances) and SQ may be better than the CMS50's internal amps (based on reviews). Passive speakers plus amp has greater future flexibility than active speakers, and if the amp goes bad (CMS only 2Yr warranty), there would be only half of the equation to replace.

 

CMS50 (refurb w/ coupon) and Schiit Bifrost Uber USB DAC will cost ~$1,420 significantly more than the $950 for the 706V (demo) and NuForce DDA-100. Excluding price, I expect the CMS50 would be the better choice.

[mayhem13]

If you're fixed on off the shelf active monitors, the DynAudio DBM50 is a much better choice than the Focals. Purely subjective opinion of course, but I've heard them both side by side and the Dynaudios excelled in every quality.....and I believe part is due to the fact that they don't ignore poor horizontal directivity, but instead get within 10 degrees of the listener knowing the dispersion character of their drivers.

[SilverLitz]

Just place order for Focal CMS50 from Alto Music for $902 (after 5% coupon) for refurbs w/ full factory warranty. Thanks christopher3393 for the suggestion.

 

The Focal CMS50 is a professional studio monitor that is internally bi-amped (80W + 50W, A/B, fully differential, e.g. balanced) with electronic crossover and a lot of EQ adjustments. It is optimized for nearfield listening and is stated to work good as close as 50cm, which should be great for my ~70cm distance. By comparison the Focal 705V and 706V are best for 2-3m (6-10 ft) per Focal. I did a lot of online research and the feedback on this speaker is nearly universally glowing. I am emotionally the most comfortable with Focal, having lived with Focal drivers in my "good" system for 16 years, as I find Focal speakers are resolving but not hyped and sound like music.

 

The online reviews and customer feedback on various forums were overwhelming in preferrence for Focal vs. Dynaudio, Adam, and others. Many of these reviewers had actual experience working with all the monitors.

 

Now I have to focus on the DAC to feed the Focal CMS50: Marantz NA7004 (already have; $400 closeout), Schiit Bifrost Uber USB ($520), Schiit Gungir USB ($850), other ???

[christopher3393]

Just place order for Focal CMS50 from Alto Music for $902 (after 5% coupon) for refurbs w/ full factory warranty. Thanks christopher3393 for the suggestion.

 

The Focal CMS50 is a professional studio monitor that is internally bi-amped (80W + 50W, A/B, fully differential, e.g. balanced) with electronic crossover and a lot of EQ adjustments. It is optimized for nearfield listening and is stated to work good as close as 50cm, which should be great for my ~70cm distance. By comparison the Focal 705V and 706V are best for 2-3m (6-10 ft) per Focal. I did a lot of online research and the feedback on this speaker is nearly universally glowing. I am emotionally the most comfortable with Focal, having lived with Focal drivers in my "good" system for 16 years, as I find Focal speakers are resolving but not hyped and sound like music.

 

The online reviews and customer feedback on various forums were overwhelming in preferrence for Focal vs. Dynaudio, Adam, and others. Many of these reviewers had actual experience working with all the monitors.

 

Now I have to focus on the DAC to feed the Focal CMS50: Marantz NA7004 (already have; $400 closeout), Schiit Bifrost Uber USB ($520), Schiit Gungir USB ($850), other ???

 

Congrats. Great deal! Do you have specific requirements and price range for dacs? I got the impression from a recent post elsewhere that you'd prefer a smaller dac with a lower output voltage than your Marantz (btw, do you know that voltage?) and a "good" volume control. It may be that your DIY volume control will work as well or better than most digital volume controls on dacs in your price range. Is $500-$900 your approximate range?

[rattosecond]

Put Eve Audio on your short list. EVE audio

 

they are a new player but have the ex-Adam CEO on the helm.

 

Bought the SC207 model and I am very happy.

[wgb113]

I have read a professional review, that directly stated the X300a is NOT a passive version of the LS50 (which would have been an odd given the LS50 is $1500, and X300a is $800 and includes DACs and amps). I believe that review also stated the X300a has the same driver as the Q100 (seems more plausible as the Q100 is $550, $250 less but no DAC/amp). The Q300 has a larger (6.5" vs. 5.25") version of the Uni-Q driver with better bass response for $100 more than the Q100.

 

The LS50 also has more sophisticated cabinet, and probably much quieter. In my experience a sonically inert cabinet is a BIG plus. The speakers I built in my main system, Focal drivers in MTM transmission line towers, are double boxed, resulting in 1.5" walls and weighing 110lbs each. The result is that knuckle rapping sound like rapping on a large solid rock, and I notice very subtle details (such a reflection from the studio mixing room glass window, and more important vocal emotional nuances) that were obscured on my prior high quality speakers. I would expect that the benefits of a "good" cabinet would be even more important at the 2-3ft listening distance.

 

I realize you went with Focals (congrats!) but I just wanted to point out that this is correct, the X300A is basically a souped up version of the Q100 than anything else. The LS50 is in a completely different class from every standpoint. It's a closer relative to the Blade than the X300A.

 

Bill

[SilverLitz]

I would like to keep the DAC to no more than $1,000, but if a little more $ gets much better sound, I will consider it. I will prefer smaller, but want good power supply, and want volume control. My reading suggested that Schiit has some of the best bang/buck. It also seems that NuForce have several that might be good. If there is a great fixed output DAC, I could use my DIY volume control, or maybe build another one.

[wgb113]

I've been happy with my Gungnir but it lacks volume control. The Benchmark DAC1 that it replaced was as good and included a volume control and very nice headphone amp to boot! You should be able to find one well under $1000 used with USB. Street price on a good-condition used one is @ $650-$750.

 

 

Bill

[SilverLitz]

How does your Gungnir sound compared to the Benchmark?

 

What is the Gungnir output voltage, balanced & SE? My Marantz NA7004 output is 2.35V, which is too hot for my Focal CMS50.

[christopher3393]

From Schiit website: Gungnir: Maximum Output: 4.0V RMS 
(balanced), 2.0V RMS (single-ended)

 

Interesting: I looked up the 3 models of the well reviewed Resonessence Concero output levels. Basic Concero is 1.2, Concero HD 2.0, Concero HP 3.5 The HP is the only one with volume control and headphone amp. So much will depend on whether or not you want High-rez and other features I think.

[jcn3]

i've got the bifrost with usb and uber and really like it. obviously not right for you since it doesn't have a volume control.

 

have you considered a wadia 121? it a dac from a company that focuses on digital and the volume control is supposedly very good. kinda pricey at $1300, but could be a great solution.

 

you could also use an audio interface like the rme babyface ($750), but you can't really cheap-out on those. my experience with a focusrite scarlett interface is that the dac is not the strong point (very grainy).

[wgb113]

How does your Gungnir sound compared to the Benchmark?

 

What is the Gungnir output voltage, balanced & SE? My Marantz NA7004 output is 2.35V, which is too hot for my Focal CMS50.

 

Chris answered the output voltage question but as to the sound of the Schiit vs. Benchmark I find them very similar in their level of transparency to the source material. I didn't find either to impart a sound signature of their own on the music which is what I ask out of every piece of audio equipment.

 

Bill