Mutec MC-3+

[Miko]

I think this article would be helpful for everyone to understand the recording process and what this man has learned over the years about jitter.

 

http://audiophilereview.com/analog/plangent---a-better-way-to-transfer-analog-tape.html

 

seeing as much of my favorite music would have been recorded with similar equipment it helped me understand how to approach and my expectations of my system. 

 

What i I took away from the article was that there is a certain point where you can only do so much with your system in reducing/removing system originated jitter and or other influences on the sound but at the end of the day... the recording itself will be the final arbiter of how well or poorly the system sounds. 

 

I have found over the years as I've refined my system that I've reached a point where it is borderline too resolving and poorly recorded music sounds... well... poor.. There is no magic home based component that can fix that. I can remember my first couple systems and how everything seemed to to sound the same. I didn't know at the time that I just didn't have the kind of equipment that allows you to hear those differences.

 

This was pre internet when all we knew or learned came from magazines and your local dealers and friends. So you had those sources each with their own aganda. Today, we have greatly expanded our ability to gather information.

 

The Plangent solution seems to be a huge step in fixing things but it's expensive and time consuming plus we don't have a say in what recording can and should be cleaned up.

 

I have a few in mind..

[SwissBear]

Hi everyone,

 

I am the happy owner of a Devialet D900 (Original d'Atelier), which I have been feeding with a MacMini -> sMS-200 -> Mutec MC-3+ USB.

I have been an early supporter of the Mutec as my contributions on this thread can witness. But I had recently become weary of the little veil which was affecting the results and making it slightly less transparent than the Roon/AIR solution.

 

Having said that, as I was engaged into the track of optimizing my source independently of the developments of Devialet, following what others had achieved on their own, I had ordered a Paul Hynes LPSU in January and received it in July.

This long awaited marvel was aimed at feeding my MacMini, which I had transformed using an UpTone kit, my Mutec MC-3+USB and a µ-rendu or sMS-200. I was a little reluctant to transform the Mutec, but achieved that with the help of a friend. And I am literally stunned by the results of this transformation.

Now that the SPSU of the Mutec is removed and it is powered by the Paul Hynes LPSU, the sound produced by the combination of the MacMini -> Mutec -> Devialet (D900) is absolutely incredible in terms of transparency while keeping all the other/positive attributes of the Mutec in terms of bass assertiveness, airy reproduction of instruments/voices, aso...

The sMS-200/µ-rendu have become redundant and left the chain.

I have done the same transformation on a second system I have which includes a darTZeel LHC-208 and Voxativ Zeth and achieved the same results.

I am therefore tempted to assess that the investment into a Paul Hynes LPSU was a major step forward in my systems. This is nothing new for most of this forum's readers, but the extent of the transformation was a revelation for me

I am now waiting for a Ref-10 to check whether any additional improvements are possible. Let's see what Mutec have in store for us...

If I could risk an advice to the wonderful/very clever people of Mutec: why not use the seemingly great PSU of the Ref-10 and derive part of its current to feed the MC-3+ USB ? Or at least provide a DC plug on the MC-3+ USB ? This would save us the pain of nasty/warranty voiding transformations and make the user experience so much more enjoyable

[Kritpoon]

1 hour ago, SwissBear said:

Hi everyone,

 

I am the happy owner of a Devialet D900 (Original d'Atelier), which I have been feeding with a MacMini -> sMS-200 -> Mutec MC-3+ USB.

I have been an early supporter of the Mutec as my contributions on this thread can witness. But I had recently become weary of the little veil which was affecting the results and making it slightly less transparent than the Roon/AIR solution.

 

Having said that, as I was engaged into the track of optimizing my source independently of the developments of Devialet, following what others had achieved on their own, I had ordered a Paul Hynes LPSU in January and received it in July.

This long awaited marvel was aimed at feeding my MacMini, which I had transformed using an UpTone kit, my Mutec MC-3+USB and a µ-rendu or sMS-200. I was a little reluctant to transform the Mutec, but achieved that with the help of a friend. And I am literally stunned by the results of this transformation.

Now that the SPSU of the Mutec is removed and it is powered by the Paul Hynes LPSU, the sound produced by the combination of the MacMini -> Mutec -> Devialet (D900) is absolutely incredible in terms of transparency while keeping all the other/positive attributes of the Mutec in terms of bass assertiveness, airy reproduction of instruments/voices, aso...

The sMS-200/µ-rendu have become redundant and left the chain.

I have done the same transformation on a second system I have which includes a darTZeel LHC-208 and Voxativ Zeth and achieved the same results.

I am therefore tempted to assess that the investment into a Paul Hynes LPSU was a major step forward in my systems. This is nothing new for most of this forum's readers, but the extent of the transformation was a revelation for me

I am now waiting for a Ref-10 to check whether any additional improvements are possible. Let's see what Mutec have in store for us...

If I could risk an advice to the wonderful/very clever people of Mutec: why not use the seemingly great PSU of the Ref-10 and derive part of its current to feed the MC-3+ USB ? Or at least provide a DC plug on the MC-3+ USB ? This would save us the pain of nasty/warranty voiding transformations and make the user experience so much more enjoyable

 

 Can you provide @ what  was the output voltage and current from PH LPSU did you use to feed the MC-3+ USB? To my understanding from reading your post, you have removed the stock SMPS and wired the output of the LPSU to the MC-3+ USB board directlly? If you don't mind, some picture of the inside with mod would be really nice  Thank you.

[SwissBear]

30 minutes ago, Kritpoon said:

 

 Can you provide @ what  was the output voltage and current from PH LPSU did you use to feed the MC-3+ USB? To my understanding from reading your post, you have removed the stock SMPS and wired the output of the LPSU to the MC-3+ USB board directlly? If you don't mind, some picture of the inside with mod would be really nice  Thank you.

Voltage is 6.3V. Current is 0.5A if I am not mistaken, but this needs to be checked. I had my LPSU configured with a 3A rail for this application, in case I would use it to feed multiple MC-3+ USB.

 

You will find some pictures of the transformation, without removing the SPSU board here: http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3653#p76424

You will note that accessing the two feet of the SPSU board in order to solder in not very easy.

 

Another option is to remove the SPSU board. Here is a complete explanation of the operations to achieve this, including a trick to remove the female Neutrik AES/EBU plug which is not trivial: https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=46&pid=44995#pid44995 .

 

And here is a picture of the soldered wires after having the board removed.

 

Please not that is is obviously voiding your warranty and should be made under your sole responsibility.

[Kritpoon]

15 minutes ago, SwissBear said:

Voltage is 6.3V. Current is 0.5A if I am not mistaken, but this needs to be checked. I had my LPSU configured with a 3A rail for this application, in case I would use it to feed multiple MC-3+ USB.

 

You will find some pictures of the transformation, without removing the SPSU board here: http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3653#p76424

You will note that accessing the two feet of the SPSU board in order to solder in not very easy.

 

Another option is to remove the SPSU board. Here is a complete explanation of the operations to achieve this, including a trick to remove the female Neutrik AES/EBU plug which is not trivial: https://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=46&pid=44995#pid44995 .

 

And here is a picture of the soldered wires after having the board removed.

 

Please not that is is obviously voiding your warranty and should be made under your sole responsibility.

 

SwissBear, Thank you for the information. I wonder if I can get away powering the unit @5V 1A (Maybe using UpTone LPS-1). @6.3V It will be very difficult to find off the shelve LPS that would run at that.  

[Miko]

Nobody has tried Bybee Music Rails? I have them fitted in my DAC and into my heavily modified Pre Amp. I think if room permits, I'd like to try them in a MC3USB.

[SwissBear]

1 hour ago, Kritpoon said:

 

SwissBear, Thank you for the information. I wonder if I can get away powering the unit @5V 1A (Maybe using UpTone LPS-1). @6.3V It will be very difficult to find off the shelve LPS that would run at that.  

 

Agreed. You might want to consult with Alex from UpTone / Julian from Mutec about using the LPS-1 @7V.

[modmix]

MC-3+ USB SPSU does feed some voltage regulator ics.

For a voltage regulator ic providing 5V internally 5V at its input will for sure be too low.

For a voltage regulator ic providing lower voltage internally increasing the input voltage by about 10% might cause too much heat there. For some reason, Mutec does not show the ic stamps - may be they will be relactant to give an answer with respect to power management ,-)

Ulli

 

[SwissBear]

1 hour ago, modmix said:

MC-3+ USB SPSU does feed some voltage regulator ics.

For a voltage regulator ic providing 5V internally 5V at its input will for sure be too low.

For a voltage regulator ic providing lower voltage internally increasing the input voltage by about 10% might cause too much heat there. For some reason, Mutec does not show the ic stamps - may be they will be relactant to give an answer with respect to power management ,-)

Ulli

 

This might be an alternative option to reach exactly 6.3V: http://www.audiowind.com/pdf/A-210.pdf

[rgom]

The MC3+ USB can be powered with just 5v @1A. I found some info on Head-Fi where some folks over there were experimenting with LPS to power the Mutec and followed their path with a DIY ultra low noise 5V output regulator (LT3042 @ just .8uV of noise) with an R-core transformer purchased from ebay and the sound I got after the mods of the MC3+ USB was just stunning.

[octaviars]

On 2017-08-20 at 2:34 PM, rgom said:

I found some info on Head-Fi where some folks over there were experimenting with LPS to power the Mutec and followed their path with a DIY ultra low noise 5V output regulator (LT3042 @ just .8uV of noise) with an R-core transformer purchased from ebay and the sound I got after the mods of the MC3+ USB was just stunning.

 

Could you share a link to the Head-Fi page and what LT3042 PSU did you get?

[SwissBear]

1 hour ago, octaviars said:

 

Could you share a link to the Head-Fi page and what LT3042 PSU did you get?

 

Hi Octaviars,

Not sure this is what you are looking for. But on the German forum, there is a guy who has used similar components to produce a very low noise PSU. If I remember well from your contributions on devialetchat.com, you should have the technical skills to understand and potentially exploit this:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aktives-hoeren.de%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D23%26t%3D8975%26sid%3Da499fe95709859c0fabe038c8b4a499a&edit-text=&act=url

[rgom]

Here is the link to an image of a DIY LPS using 2 LT3042's.

This was built by Muziqboy and is powering 2 of his Mutecs.

Both these guys @johnjen and @Muziqboy were the guys experimenting with replacing the smps in their Rednet 3's and Mutecs and reported sound quality increases in their systems that was not subtle.

 

Stunning sound quality as I have also experienced by also performing the surgery on my Rednet3 and Mutec following their experimentations.    Highly recommended!

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-73#post-13459530

[SwissBear]

11 hours ago, rgom said:

Here is the link to an image of a DIY LPS using 2 LT3042's.

This was built by Muziqboy and is powering 2 of his Mutecs.

Both these guys @johnjen and @Muziqboy were the guys experimenting with replacing the smps in their Rednet 3's and Mutecs and reported sound quality increases in their systems that was not subtle.

 

Stunning sound quality as I have also experienced by also performing the surgery on my Rednet3 and Mutec following their experimentations.    Highly recommended!

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-73#post-13459530

 

Thanks @rgom. What's specially interesting are the specifications of the power supply of the MC-3+ USB which seems planned to operate between 5V and 6V. Seems like anything above 6V could be damaging for the regulation. (https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/page-76#post-13531120)

Could @julian.david confirm this information on behalf of Mutec ?

[afrancois]

I just finished modding my MC3+ USB. It is now powered by an LPS-1 at 5V.

 

Be prepared to hear every defect in the recording! I'm hearing tape hiss I've never heard before.

 

Very revealing!

[Tand]

6 minutes ago, afrancois said:

I just finished modding my MC3+ USB. It is now powered by an LPS-1 at 5V.

 

Be prepared to hear every defect in the recording! I'm hearing tape hiss I've never heard before.

 

Very revealing!

This is on my "to-do-list" this winter. Any pictures you can share?

[zoltan]

Yes, pictures, pleeease.

[afrancois]

4 minutes ago, Tand said:

This is on my "to-do-list" this winter. Any pictures you can share?

Sorry, I was totally focused on the mod.

 

The modification is identical to the picture above in the post from Swissbear.

 

I used a Canare 4S6 DC cable instead.

[zoltan]

So you totally removed the power supply unit? Or just soldered the cable to the posts? Did you measure the output voltage of the original power supply at the terminals?

[afrancois]

10 minutes ago, zoltan said:

So you totally removed the power supply unit? Or just soldered the cable to the posts? Did you measure the output voltage of the original power supply at the terminals?

Totally removed the power supply. Yes, the voltage was 6.2V

 

My LPS-1 gives 4.96V

[mecani]

El 10/9/2017 a las 10:18, rgom dijo:

LT3042

How do I loose the power supply?

screws, desoldering

[zoltan]

3 minutes ago, mecani said:

How do I loose the power supply?

screws, desoldering

Is there a benefit of removing the original as opposed to soldering the cable ends to the 'legs'?  

[afrancois]

18 minutes ago, zoltan said:

Is there a benefit of removing the original as opposed to soldering the cable ends to the 'legs'?  

I've desoldered the original power supply.

 

The benefit for me doing so is that the MC3+ USB is running less hot. Not a problem now, but during the summer, I've always found it to be a bit too hot.

 

I'm no specialist but I always believed that too much heat is the enemy of electronic devices.

 

Again, don't know, but could keeping the original power supply influence things to a certain degree?

[SwissBear]

1 hour ago, zoltan said:

Is there a benefit of removing the original as opposed to soldering the cable ends to the 'legs'?  

According to Mutec, leaving the stock SPSU in place could cause the 2nd stage of this SPSU to remain active and cause interference. So you need to remove it...

[mecani]

the earth does not use it?