AudioPhil Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Hi m5sime Perfectly well then. I can also confirm the part about the transmission. As soon as you tinker with the signal in the slightest way (EQ, Cross-Over, Headphone related stuff, no matter what) MQA is gone. But this is by design of MQA and it isn't necessarily a bad thing. This just happens to maintain the integrity of the MQA stream, so this is just a part of the game. Best, AudioPhil m5sime 1 ıllıllı [ ...AO 4.00 BETA... ] ıllıllı ____________________________________________________________________________________ Shop | Reviews | Reference System | AudiophileOptimizer 3.00 | PDF Guide Link to comment
Lerouge Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 These remarks about MQA should be held on a specific topic.That said, in the opinion of many specialists, and the cross-media analysis of the media and what has happened in the last 15 years in the audio industry, MQA seems to be only a further attempt by the Majors in order to restrict access to cultural information to a medium (like DRM), this time under cover of alleged sound improvements* ...And the last comment of AudioPhill is rather obvious 2 hours ago, AudioPhil said: (...)As soon as you tinker with the signal in the slightest way (EQ, Cross-Over, Headphone related stuff, no matter what) MQA is gone. But this is by design of MQA and it isn't necessarily a bad thing. This just happens to maintain the integrity of the MQA stream, so this is just a part of the game. Best, AudioPhil Does anyone really want to play this game ? Ok, no worries " if you do not have a suitable equipment, you will always hear the content but in a banal quality." This promise of "superior quality"* as a new norm, is once again announced as a programmed obsolescence... But there will always be some to be fooled... alas...Sympathetically Lerouge* In fact, it degrades the quality ... Read this in order to understand why :"Hypothesis Paper to support a deeper Technical Analysis of MQA ( Master Quality Authenticated )" by Stephan Hotto / XiVero GmbH( ps. Sorry AufioPhil, you are not particularly designated by my little diatribe, it's just that your last sentence served my purpose particularly well.) Link to comment
AudioPhil Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hi i don't take it personally, no worries i just tried to explain in simple terms how it works and what the "boundaries" are. but indeed you are right, I also made my personal thoughts about this new "lock"... Best, AudioPhil ıllıllı [ ...AO 4.00 BETA... ] ıllıllı ____________________________________________________________________________________ Shop | Reviews | Reference System | AudiophileOptimizer 3.00 | PDF Guide Link to comment
julian.david Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 On 23/05/2017 at 6:12 PM, m5sime said: Thank you @AudioPhil !! I had put a question in parallel to Mytek support and they confirmed today what you said already (and have just added). But adding a comment about no processing/volume etc as below.. MQA works on every Brooklyn's input - USB/AES/S/PDIF and TOSLINK. There is no obstacle for it to work with any unit between it. There is one condition: Transmission has to be bit perfect in whole signal chain ingoing to the Brooklyn. Meaning there can not be set any effects, balance, even volume has to be set on 100%. Fortunately, the re-clocking algorithm in the MC-3+ and MC-3+USB is bit-transparent unlike some other re-clocking solutions (often integrated in DACs) that rely on an SRC (sample rate converter). MUTEC GmbH Marketing Associate Email [email protected] Web www.mutec-net.com Link to comment
m5sime Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 6 minutes ago, julian.david said: Fortunately, the re-clocking algorithm in the MC-3+ and MC-3+USB is bit-transparent unlike some other re-clocking solutions (often integrated in DACs) that rely on an SRC (sample rate converter). Hi @julian.david - would you mind checking your business email. I sent you a message earlier this week. I'm keen to try the Mutec magic ☺ Link to comment
julian.david Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 2 minutes ago, m5sime said: Hi @julian.david - would you mind checking your business email. I sent you a message earlier this week. I'm keen to try the Mutec magic ☺ Yeah, I'm on it. Just checking a couple of things with our technical team. Please give me another couple of days. Thanks, Julian MUTEC GmbH Marketing Associate Email [email protected] Web www.mutec-net.com Link to comment
m5sime Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 @AudioPhil - I am getting an MC-3+USB on demo next week and noted that it can generate a word clock output. The Mytek Brooklyn can accept a word clock input. Mytek state in the manual basically not to bother (i.e. their internal 0.82ps jitter femto clock being the best). The specs on the MC-3 are the same (1ps jitter) Mytek: Wordclock BNC input. Can be used for professional clock distribution and for syncing multiple units and as DSD reference clock. Can also be used for connecting the Brooklyn to external clock. However, we recommend running Mytek on Internal Clock, using the built in Mytek FemtoClock which is by far superior (<1ps jitter) to any clock source connected from outside. Wordclock BNC output. Used for professional clock distribution. 192KHz and DSD reference clock. Mytek Femtoclock Generator (tm)” 0.82ps internal jitter, Wordclock Input and Output (allows stacking multiple units for multichannel operation, includes multichannel DSD) Mutec: Frequency Synthesis MUTEC’s propritary 1G-Clock Technology based on highest-clocked DDS process Oscillator Type XO, digitally-compensated crystal oscillator Clock Accuracy (shipped) < Å} 1.0 ppm Clock Jitter < 1 ps (RMS) Operating Temperature 0 ÅãC to + 50 ÅãC I wonder if there is benefit to be had with synchronisation of the DAC and Mutec? Have you tried by any chance? BR Simon Link to comment
modmix Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 8 hours ago, julian.david said: Fortunately, the re-clocking algorithm in the MC-3+ and MC-3+USB is bit-transparent True as long as you do not use an external clock (like 10MHz). Ulli Link to comment
Popular Post m5sime Posted May 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2017 Hi! I have been auditioning the Mutec MC-3+USB tonight since getting a demo unit from Audiobarn in the UK (very nice people). The findings so far are interesting.. I also added a new linear PSU for the Rendu source and have a iPurifier DC unit added to my Mytek Brooklyn DAC linear PSU. I compared USB into the Mutec and a very short 110ohm correct AES cable into the Brooklyn vs USB direct to the Brooklyn The sound is richer, deeper more organic and overall I would say better. I'd convinced myself however I found something interesting on a Sting track. The Mytek direct with Rendu via USB had a little more energy and rhythm and pace to this track. The richness of the Mutec path seed to add a little ponderance in my system. Has anyone else found this??? Overally system remains critical of tracks with some sounding horrid. Perhaps this is the Mytek DAC and KEF LS50's I have both being renowned for being analytical.. I also noted the Mutec is sucking 350mA from the Rendu and making it warm! 41deg C. The Brooklyn takes only 2mA! I assume the Mutec is powering the USB stage from the source. It did make a difference when I listened to the variance between my Rendu PSUs of linear vs IFI.. Guess this is exacerbated if taking much more juice.. Test tracks were various but especially Dire straits and sting via Tidal. See below for Roon screenshot. Regards Simon Middy and julian.david 2 Link to comment
m5sime Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 For some reason I could not edit this post.. I wanted to point out that it should read 20mA and not 2mA current draw between Rendu and Brooklyn.. 14 hours ago, m5sime said: I also noted the Mutec is sucking 350mA from the Rendu and making it warm! 41deg C. The Brooklyn takes only 2mA! I assume the Mutec is powering the USB stage from the source. Link to comment
modmix Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 On 30.5.2017 at 10:33 PM, m5sime said: I also noted the Mutec is sucking 350mA from the Rendu and making it warm! 41deg C. --- I assume the Mutec is powering the USB stage from the source. Your conclusion is correct ,-) Of course, 350mA is within USB spec... Nevertheless, in case you'ld like to run eg. Rendu cooler, supplying USB +5V from an extra psu might be an option (cf. usb extrnal power). Of course, I'ld choose a good one... hth Ulli Link to comment
m5sime Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 1 hour ago, modmix said: +5V from an extra psu might be an option (cf. usb extrnal power). Of course, I'ld choose a good one... hth Ulli Thank you! Yes agree I have an external linear PSU already for the Rendu.. Were you suggesting to bypass the supply rails and feed the Mutec direct? Link to comment
modmix Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Yes. Don't know whether that makes any difference soundwise, though - pls let us know in case you give it a try ,-) Link to comment
m5sime Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 52 minutes ago, modmix said: Yes. Don't know whether that makes any difference soundwise, though - pls let us know in case you give it a try ,-) Thanks! I'd probably only do it to save the Rendu strain Link to comment
jelt2359 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 removed. it was my rednet issue Link to comment
jelt2359 Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I know that some in the past have bought external clocks for their 3+ USB and Rednet, and are using the 3+ USB in reclocking mode after the Rednet. My 3+ USB is currently reclocking the signal from the Rednet, and I know that it will work fine in this function. Now, I am considering buying the Ref10 external clock to connect to my 3+ USB. This will be a far more accurate clock than what's in the Rednet, so I'm thinking of letting my Rednet also take a wck in connection from the 3+USB/Ref10 combi. But can my 3+ USB work as both a clock distributor and a reclocker at the same time? So my 3+ USB will ideally distribute an ultra-accurate (since it's referenced externally to the Ref10) word clock signal to my Rednet, and also further re-clock the signal from the Rednet! So my ideal setup will be: Rednet (takes wck in from the 3+ USB+Ref10) -> 3+ USB (references 10mhz signal from the Ref10, and reclocks the Rednet) Thanks in advance! Link to comment
r11bordo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Why don't you do the test ? Source : QNAP TS-131, LMS 7.9, Player Digione Amp+Cables+Speakers : FDA V200, Audioprana Ag Cryo 4 brins, Atohm GT2 Link to comment
jelt2359 Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 On 6/14/2017 at 5:07 PM, r11bordo said: Why don't you do the test ? I do not have an external clock. Since then I have tried it by borrowing a friend's 10mhz clock. It works in the way I describe. Additionally, since the Rednet takes its sample rate information from the Dante transmitter (and not from the word clock), and the Mutec in turn takes the sample rate information from the Rednet; this system changes all sample rates on its own, without any need for manual intervention to change the sample rates on the clock. Link to comment
joelha Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 9 hours ago, jelt2359 said: I do not have an external clock. Since then I have tried it by borrowing a friend's 10mhz clock. It works in the way I describe. Additionally, since the Rednet takes its sample rate information from the Dante transmitter (and not from the word clock), and the Mutec in turn takes the sample rate information from the Rednet; this system changes all sample rates on its own, without any need for manual intervention to change the sample rates on the clock. Well, I'll confess my ignorance here. I have a Rednet D16 and a Mutec MC-3+USB. But either the sound skips, or the "Lock" light on my Berkeley DAC turns amber instead of the preferred green. What settings should I have in my Rednet Control program? I think there's only one way to get this configuration to work on the Mutec but I'll gladly take your settings on that as well. Thanks in advance for your help. Joel Link to comment
mourip Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 23 hours ago, jelt2359 said: I do not have an external clock. Since then I have tried it by borrowing a friend's 10mhz clock. It works in the way I describe. Additionally, since the Rednet takes its sample rate information from the Dante transmitter (and not from the word clock), and the Mutec in turn takes the sample rate information from the Rednet; this system changes all sample rates on its own, without any need for manual intervention to change the sample rates on the clock. Here is another data point from a reply that I received from Mutec regarding using the Mutec to act as wordclock for the Rednet preceding it. "...thank you for buying the MC-3+USB. I hope you are satisfied so far. We are generally not recommending clocking the source with the MC-3+USB's clock signals. That would cause a digital signal loop sooner or later. Be careful! Best regards, Chris. Dipl.-Ing. Christian Peters Geschäftsführer / CEO" My question was: "I have a Mutec USB 3+. Can my 3+ USB work as both a clock distributor and a reclocker at the same time? My chain is PC>Rednet D16> Mutec USB (re-clocking. I would like to have it also send wclk back to my Rednet." "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
jelt2359 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Strangely, mine works perfectly fine. When I disconnect the clock out from the mutec, there is no sound, so I know that the rednet is taking the wck in from the mutec. In addition I am going aes in from the rednet to mutec, and aes out from my mutec to my dac in reclocking mode. Everything works okay Link to comment
Confused Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 16 minutes ago, mourip said: Here is another data point from a reply that I received from Mutec regarding using the Mutec to act as wordclock for the Rednet preceding it. "...thank you for buying the MC-3+USB. I hope you are satisfied so far. We are generally not recommending clocking the source with the MC-3+USB's clock signals. That would cause a digital signal loop sooner or later. Be careful! This is a very interesting comment. It makes me wonder about the very good reports regarding using SOtM-sCLK-EX to provide clock signals to various components 'in the chain'. To me, sending a wordclock signal to a Rednet is similar in principle, although maybe there is a subtly I have missed here. What I am thinking is that is there a risk of a 'digital signal loop' with these SOtM based chains of clocked devices? Indeed, I have been thinking about using the REF 10 to provide a reference signal to both the MC3+USB, with the MC3+USB providing the wordclock to a SMS-200Ultra. Maybe this is a bad idea? Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
mourip Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 27 minutes ago, jelt2359 said: Strangely, mine works perfectly fine. When I disconnect the clock out from the mutec, there is no sound, so I know that the rednet is taking the wck in from the mutec. In addition I am going aes in from the rednet to mutec, and aes out from my mutec to my dac in reclocking mode. Everything works okay I had success, meaning sound with no dropouts, when using my LiveClock to provide external wordclock to both my D16 and my Mutec which as acting a reclocker. I did find that the sound improved when I disconnected the Mutec from the LiveClock leading me to believe that the internal clock of the Mutec was excellent but that the D16 bebefitted from a better external clock. I have not tried looping the Mutec back to the Rednet. "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
mourip Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 36 minutes ago, Confused said: This is a very interesting comment. It makes me wonder about the very good reports regarding using SOtM-sCLK-EX to provide clock signals to various components 'in the chain'. To me, sending a wordclock signal to a Rednet is similar in principle, although maybe there is a subtly I have missed here. What I am thinking is that is there a risk of a 'digital signal loop' with these SOtM based chains of clocked devices? Indeed, I have been thinking about using the REF 10 to provide a reference signal to both the MC3+USB, with the MC3+USB providing the wordclock to a SMS-200Ultra. Maybe this is a bad idea? I do not see an input on the SMS-200 Ultra for external clocking. Assuming that it would recognize the Mutec it looks like you could use the Mutec USB as a reclocker and have the Ref10 as master clock for the Mutec. "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
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