Mutec MC-3+

[*progear]

 

5 hours ago, Miko said:

I'm not sure it would be of much use in a home audio system. That money could be better spent cascading multiple Mutec's together no?

 

 

At the very fist pages of this thread this question has already been discussed. At the time we only had the "old" MC3+ which benefitted even from cheapo DIY OCXOs. Thus I would say that we will simply have to wait and see/hear whether the external clock will improve the clocking/quality of the digital signal even further. In the end it always comes down to bang for bucks. Mutec are great developers, I would not be surprised if the new clock was more than just a step up.

Btw. I still hold the view that the greatest bang for the buck at the moment is to be found in the little afi by acousence which is based on a different concept but does a wonderful job cleaning the signal.

 

On 29.3.2016 at 1:50 PM, *progear said:

To my ears the AFI is just as good as Raimund claims. Compared it to the Mutec MC3+ USB. .... it certainly is the best I have tried so far.

 https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/27421-afiusb-module-usb-interface-isolator-and-re-clocker/#comment-521686

 

[*progear]

7 minutes ago, *progear said:

 

 

[Miko]

Hmm.. maybe if I could find a lightning to aes/ebu cable? And then I'd need a portable battery pack.....I maybe could answer yes ?

[6aardvark9]

On ‎27‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:54 AM, One and a half said:

 

Have a double check of the DSD settings in A+. They should be set to DoP and the sample rate green to DSD128. OSX nativey doesn't do DSD256 unless the dac vendor provides a driver.

Your other settings look OK.

 

Thanks One and a half, it's working now... it did take about 3 or 4 minutes for the Mutec to lock onto the DSD128 signal though (flashing LEDs on and off intermittently until the lock was achieved), but once locked it had no trouble with subsequent tracks.

[r11bordo]

Hello,

Any comparison beetween the Mutec MC-1.2 and the Mutec MC-3+ USB on the USB-SPDIF conversion ?

thx

[modmix]

Hi,

MC-1.2 converts USB to SPDIF quite fine. MC-3+ USB does the job significantly better.

(No wonder if you concider the MC-3+ extra effort like isolation or power handling).

If you go USB route, MC-3+ USB is worth the extra money.

hth

Ulli

[r11bordo]

I'm looking Mutec in order to challenge and perhaps replace a Singxer F-1 and a dxio Pro3z. Regarding the used hifi system, the result provided by these interfaces is quite different. 

[Miko]

18 minutes ago, r11bordo said:

I'm looking Mutec in order to challenge and perhaps replace a Singxer F-1 and a dxio Pro3z. Regarding the used hifi system, the result provided by these interfaces is quite different. 

 

I bought a Singxer SU-1 and had it for about 3 weeks. I replaced it with the MC3USB and the difference was instantly noticeable.

 

I have found that the AES/EBU connection always sounds better (in my system) then SP/DIF. And I have a very expensive top of the line Kimber SP/DIF Kable..

 

My system has lost the digital sound and has become much more analog in its presentation without the attendant shortcomings of analog.

 

The Singxer products do what they are designed to do. They are also reasonably priced. I think in the right application i.e. non critical / low resolution / budget or 2nd system they would fit the bill perfectly.

 

No amount of tweaking à la Kitsune and his power supply upgrades in my opinion can elevate the SU-1 up to the level of the Mutec.

 

In fact, I've been so impressed with the performance of my Mutec that I am going to purchase another one and cascade them.

 

I've read that four is about the practical limit for cascading them. I'll be trying 2 very soon.

You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain stepping up to Mutec.

[Middy]

will the Mutec + lock onto my android phone  OTG? I have no issues when using on my Oppo ha1 and my Mytek Brooklyn.

Currently using bit perfect USB AUDIO PLAYER PRO with added MQA decoding.

I assume it would be driverless and that is just for windows operation.

Cheers and good luck

Dave?

[Lerouge]

If I were you I would wait for the "Munich High End" within a couple of weeks before investing in a mc3+usb ...
One never knows... I can easily imagine a kind of "mini mc3 + Usb "... identical to the mc3+usb but without the " world clock " inputs and outputs...and a little cheaper ... as suggested by different journalists of the specialized press .. (See for example the conclusion here : Andrew Everard for HiFi News). In any case, it would be a good idea from Mutec... "Hope brings life" 

[r11bordo]

Sure, for personal use, perhaps no need for the world clock. Many offered functions that increase the final price.

[Lerouge]

What is certain is that with the feedback of the Hi-Fi press and users on its products, Mutec would benefit from moving more towards this market while keeping these prices relatively competitive, their design quality While - at the same time - simplifying their solutions for this purpose.

[Abtr]

An MC1.2 + galvanic isolation..?

[Lerouge]

29 minutes ago, Abtr said:

An MC1.2 + galvanic isolation..?

Not only, but also including "MUTEC 1G clock technology and "Latest generation REVIVE-re-sync" and also better quality power supply... As I said before, just a mc3+usb but without sync connections to an external atomic clock ... frankly useless in hi-fi.

[Abtr]

5 hours ago, Lerouge said:

Not only, but also including "MUTEC 1G clock technology and "Latest generation REVIVE-re-sync" and also better quality power supply... As I said before, just a mc3+usb but without sync connections to an external atomic clock ... frankly useless in hi-fi.

 

I use an MC-3+ (no USB) to reclock S/PDIF (coax-in) from a CD player and feed this (coax-out) to a Schiit Modi multibit DAC. In a blind test I can't distinguish CD playback via the MC-3+, from USB audio played through the same DAC with an Intona galvanic USB isolator between PC and DAC. IME galvanic isolation is essential for good USB audio. I may just try the Mutec MC-1.2 (with Intona isolator) and compare SQ to the MC-3+. It would be great If USB audio via the MC-1.2 sounds better over coax than the DAC's own USB interface and clock!  

[Miracle1980]

Few questions about the Mutec 3

 

- Is the built in power supply good or i will have to replace it with another one? I mean...is it linear psu integrated?

- Does the Mutec need an usb isolator (intona, ifi nano, etc.) or it's already ''isolated''?

- I want to go into my dac using the AES/EBU connection from the Mutec. Can i still benefit from the World Clock option?

- Using the Mutec...do i still need to care about linear psu for my mini-pc and external drive?

- Who is the best performer between the mutec and auralic aries with femto clocks and linear psu? Anyone compared?

 

Thanks

[Fyper]

On 30/04/2017 at 5:43 PM, Lerouge said:

Not only, but also including "MUTEC 1G clock technology and "Latest generation REVIVE-re-sync" and also better quality power supply... As I said before, just a mc3+usb but without sync connections to an external atomic clock ... frankly useless in hi-fi.

I wouldn't be so sure about the uselessness of a 10M clock in Hifi.

The MC 3+usb  can already be used as a master clock and there are still a few sources and DACs out there which can benefit from that: synchronising both source and DAC on the same clock through wordclock inputs/outputs. (Aurender, Mytek, Esoteric, DCS, ...)

If would be interesting, by the way, to compare the outcome, for the systems which can do both reclocking and synchronising.

If MUTEC were to finally put on the market a 10M clock able to outperform the current Rubidum 10M clocks for a lower price, I wouldn't be the only one to consider it.

And if such a clock could improve significantly a MC3+ (usb or not), I feel many out there would look into it.

We'll see!

[julian.david]

1 hour ago, Fyper said:

If MUTEC were to finally put on the market a 10M clock able to outperform the current Rubidum 10M clocks for a lower price, I wouldn't be the only one to consider it.

And if such a clock could improve significantly a MC3+ (usb or not), I feel many out there would look into it.

We'll see!

 

Highend Munich is soooo close now...

;-)

[macmarty]

31 minutes ago, julian.david said:

 

Highend Munich is soooo close now...

;-)

Looking forward to it, with you posting in mind 

[Miko]

So the question is: is it better to use a external clock to your DAC instead of reclocking?

 

I'm trying to figure out why in a home audio system we would need an external word clock.

 

In a studio, you have multiple digital devices that need to be synced up. At home you'd have a transport and DAC.

[*progear]

9 minutes ago, Miko said:

 

So the question is: is it better to use a external clock to your DAC instead of reclocking?

 

I'm trying to figure out why in a home audio system we would need an external word clock.

 

In a studio, you have multiple digital devices that need to be synced up. At home you'd have a transport and DAC.

 

 

Clocking your DAC by an external master clock will not help much in many cases. Instead, reclocking an AES/SPDIF signal is very likely to help with a lot of DACs - simply because the input section of the DAC - PLL has less work to do. 

A 10M clock can be used to further improve the MC3+. With the "old" MC3+ relatively cheap DIY 10Ms had a positive effect, with the USB model the internal clock is already very good so I guess it will take a really good 10M to do any good. I would not doubt that Mutec do have a point in releasing their 10M. There certainly will be an audible improvement of some kind.

At the price point of such a system there may also be other options to be considered for hifi nerds.

[Miko]

Grimm Audio has a white paper or two detailing the reason why atomic clocks and external clocks are sorta pointless in home audio.

 

Like most things in this hobby, once you've reached a certain point, improvements become incremental.

 

The move to a ssd drive to house my music library was a noticeable and welcome improvement. I bought a 850 evo 1tb ssd and a external enclosure. I use a dedicated USB 3 port and my music loads instantly. No matter what the format. From MP3 to quad DSD it starts immediately and I think it sounds a touch better.

 

The Mutec has been to date the most jaw dropping improvement I've had since purchasing the (now defunct)  BSG Tech Qol.

 

It makes expensive dedicated media servers a useless waste of money. (Although I do think the Aurender W20 is frikin kick ass, but no way am I shelling out that kind of Chedder)

 

My plan is to keep adding Mutec's... I'd like to ultimately have 4. Is anyone currently running multiple Mutec's?

 

I agree, the added cost of an external clock vs the "maybe" incremental improvement vs cascaded Mutec's does not seem worth it.

 

Wouldnt an external clock defeat the whole reclocking scheme anyway because your reclocking w/ a external clock?

[Fyper]

43 minutes ago, *progear said:

 

Clocking your DAC by an external master clock will not help much in many cases. Instead, reclocking an AES/SPDIF signal is very likely to help with a lot of DACs - simply because the input section of the DAC - PLL has less work to do. 

Not sure I understand this: if an external clock is used, then no work is required from the input section of the DAC - PLL, that work is done by the external clock.

Same (better actually) if the source and the DAC are synced: no reclocking and/or DAC pll work is required.

The reclocking concept, to me, comes from the fact that most sources and DACs don't offer a wordclock inputs (even more true when done through usb), therefore you've to tap the timing info directly from the PCM flow, whereas it takes a different path, and is being reclocked, when going from source to DAC through a master clock.

Some then say that this different path may actually add more jitter than leaving it as is, but I can assure you that it's not the case in my system.

 

Put differently : where reclocking is relevant, alternative external clocking is de facto relevant. I don't know which method is more efficient or if a 10M clock makes a difference, but intuitively I'd think that when all parts of a system are synced, by the best possible clock, it should have an edge.

[Miko]

I agree, but then how much of that improvement is negated by another power supply and set of cables? I have a DAC with word clock inputs (Tascam DA3000) I have yet to try that option as most external clocks are just too much $$ to play with.

 

 

[Fyper]

You could try to plug you MC3+ and compare ?