Mutec MC-3+

[r11bordo]

And you hadn't the W4S Recovery beetween the Singxer or Mutec and the computer ?

Because somebody estimates a great improvement of the SQ offered with the Recovery.

[Miko]

Hello,

 

No, I really have no actual real world experience with any of the so called "de crapifiers" I spend a good amount of time reading and learning. I was very interested in Mutec awhile ago, then decided the hype was overblown and didn't purchase one. Instead, I bought a SU-1 figuring I could save a substainal amount of money and achieve the same if not equal results.

 

After spending 3 weeks tweaking my system and doing all that I could, I felt as though something was missing. A quick visit to some friends who own very refined analog systems including Reel to Reel left me perplexed.

 

I came home, listened to the same tracks I just listened to on record, and one track that was an actual master tape and tried everything in my digital power to bring that feeling of life into my system and fell short of the mark. Upsample/downsample/native sample(?) played with filters and then I thought "ahh, it must be my pc.. the great Satan!" 

 

I pulled out my CD/DVD-A/SACD/XRCD and fired up my highly modified Oppo and let the discs spin. Feeding the digital outputs directly into my equally modified Tascam DA3K I inched closer to the reference sounds I heard.

 

Thats when I decided to pack up the SU-1 and send it home along with a Musical Paradise D2 that was buggy and ultimately broke down. I had a moment of clarity and knew the path to audio nirvana would include a drive by of Teutonic proportions.

 

Revisting my old notes, I went ahead called upon the fine folks at Markertec and they quickly sent along a MC3USB in Black. Very high quality USB cable? Check, top notch AES/EBU cable? Check! System went over and all settings optimized? Check! I even went one step further and picked up a 1tb M.2 SSD and external enclosure. I transferred all my music to it cleaned up my PC's HDD and installed the Mutec.

 

The driver install went with out a hitch, in mere moments I had sound coming out and sat down to see if the hundreds and thousands of posts were indeed on the mark. Without any additional tweaking I went ahead and mounted my audio assault with benchmark tracks.

 

After just a few minutes I realized that I am hearing excellent sound. I made a couple of quick adjustments and settled in for awhile and let the music flow. With JRiver set to play random tracks I was repeatedly delighted and impressed. When the track "Dryve" by Techmaster P.E.B. started I felt the power of four 10" subwoofers unleashed like never before. 

 

I felt it hit me and my whole body shook with delight. That's a very explosive and excellent test of a systems ability to reproduce the ultra low bass and my system with the Mutec delivered sub 20Hz slam that was epic and satisfyingly rumblistic!

 

Steely Dan's latest release is a overlooked treasure. Pixaleen was dynamic and detailed. Godwhacker was substantial and akin to a Thanksgivings Day Feast hosted by Romans who were nice enough to set up a vomitorium! 

 

Part two to follow!

[Miko]

I know the lights on the MC3USB are bright and numerous. For those among us who don't want to switch them off, here is an excellent tweak: http://www.lightdims.com/

 

I use it on all my stuff..I wish I would have come up with idea....Here is a pic of my tweaked MC3...

[jtwrace]

Anyone using this with the Mytek Brooklyn?  Can it do DSD256 as well?  Any objective measurements?  

[noshortcuts]

Wow, came here looking into the Mutec and feel like I've fallen down a rabbit hole. Hard to believe how long the chain of devices and cords is getting for people (adding other reclockers, power supplies, etc.). And then DIY modifying too! - I wonder if I can just crawl back up to the light and forget I was ever here.

[mourip]

On 4/24/2017 at 5:11 PM, Miko said:

I know the lights on the MC3USB are bright and numerous. For those among us who don't want to switch them off, here is an excellent tweak: http://www.lightdims.com/

 

 

Great idea. Thanks for the tip!

What an obnoxious web page though :-)

[Miko]

They do work well.. what I do is use a xacto knife. I pick up whatever size I need off the sheet with the tip of the knife and then place it perfectly over the light. Then press it on and slip the knife out.

 

I've always wondered if all these companies that use LEDS know that they are about 1000x's brighter then they need to be. 

 

Now all my equipment is softly illuminated and more "analog" looking. Here is a picture of my system in it's current iteration. I am in the process of moving it all to the right side wall and mounting the TV on the wall. Maybe mounting both subs on the wall too.. 

 

I've had a chance to play with different positions and behind the mains don't sound nearly as good as when they were in front of them.

[Miko]

2 hours ago, noshortcuts said:

Wow, came here looking into the Mutec and feel like I've fallen down a rabbit hole. Hard to believe how long the chain of devices and cords is getting for people (adding other reclockers, power supplies, etc.). And then DIY modifying too! - I wonder if I can just crawl back up to the light and forget I was ever here.

 

In some systems like mine, using a standard issue HP PC the Mutec was an incredible improvement in sound and provided a way via USB to pipe my files from PC to system.

 

I'm not a disciple of power cords...but I can say right out of the box and as soon as I played the first song I knew I had a keeper.

 

Like any hobby, you can get as extreme as you'd like. There's certainly no shortage of snake oil being peddled and promoted by unscrupulous companies and online/print magazines.

 

It can be overwhelming and that's no accident. Information overload is a well known and used tool for manipulation.

[Nikhil]

 

Great to see that the Mutec 3+ USB continues to receive positive feedback on here.

 

I'd like to add the Mutec and would like to know if anyone is using it along with HQPlayer?

Does it make sense to use HQP to DSD if the Mutec is going to convert it back to PCM?

Are the benefits HQP and it's filters/noise shaping preserved?

 

Regards.   

 

@julian.david will you be at the Munich show?  

I have just made plans to visit the show on Friday and Saturday.

 

[One and a half]

39 minutes ago, Nikhil said:

 

Great to see that the Mutec 3+ USB continues to receive positive feedback on here.

 

I'd like to add the Mutec and would like to know if anyone is using it along with HQPlayer?

Does it make sense to use HQP to DSD if the Mutec is going to convert it back to PCM?

Are the benefits HQP and it's filters/noise shaping preserved?

 

Regards.   

 

@julian.david will you be at the Munich show?  

I have just made plans to visit the show on Friday and Saturday.

 

 

HQ Players filtering doesn't need to be too aggressive. I tried the newer XLT versus the poly since filters with not much change in my system.

 

It's a matter of convenience to keep the one rate with HQ Player, in other words, convert everything to DSD256 and let the MC-3+USB do the rest. For any DSD input, the output of the Mutec is set to 176.4, that's the *only* "SRC" the Mutec does, well not really SRC, but a change in format. Any PCM though passes through at its natural sample rate for the file, re-clocked of course. I would allow 1 second to allow the MC-3+USB grace to allow for sample rate change. The actual detection of the sample rate is quite fast, the rest of the time taken is to re-clock and sync the output.

 

The more speed I upsampled, the more the sound didn't engage. After a few months of DSD upsampling, I found DSD128 input to be a sweet spot with the Mutec, but equally, I enjoy standard sample rates played as is, with no upsampling, and no filtering. 

For that case of playing files for their natural sampling frequency, JRiver does a good job and makes the library easier to manage. Perhaps another thread there. I still have a dislike towards JRiver's management due to the treatment of other posters on this forum in 2015/2016, just rubbing people up the wrong way. Anyway, moving on.

 

The MC-3+USB is great for those DAC manufacturers that squirm, duck and weave in not providing direct DSD input, like Schiit, BADA and of course legacy DACs didn't have DSD capability, like the Krell.

 

Mutec will be at Munich High End, there's bound to a surprise (or two), worth the visit for sure.

 

BTW, the Windows 10 Creator's edition supplies a native USB2.0 driver. For the Mutec, the sync lock lights up, but the output LED just flashes on/off/on/off ...zzz and no output. More work to do there from Redmond. The ASIO driver supplied with the MC-3+USB on the other hand, just works.

 

 

[One and a half]

6 hours ago, Miko said:

Now all my equipment is softly illuminated and more "analog" looking. Here is a picture of my system in it's current iteration. I am in the process of moving it all to the right side wall and mounting the TV on the wall. Maybe mounting both subs on the wall too.. 

 

 

 

 

The MC-3+USB's LEDs can be switch off in one go, if you wish.

Press the Menu + Select buttons together, and only the Power and lock LED will light up.

[Nikhil]

33 minutes ago, One and a half said:

 

HQ Players filtering doesn't need to be too aggressive. I tried the newer XLT versus the poly since filters with not much change in my system.

 

It's a matter of convenience to keep the one rate with HQ Player, in other words, convert everything to DSD256 and let the MC-3+USB do the rest. For any DSD input, the output of the Mutec is set to 176.4, that's the *only* "SRC" the Mutec does, well not really SRC, but a change in format. Any PCM though passes through at its natural sample rate for the file, re-clocked of course. I would allow 1 second to allow the MC-3+USB grace to allow for sample rate change. The actual detection of the sample rate is quite fast, the rest of the time taken is to re-clock and sync the output.

 

The more speed I upsampled, the more the sound didn't engage. After a few months of DSD upsampling, I found DSD128 input to be a sweet spot with the Mutec, but equally, I enjoy standard sample rates played as is, with no upsampling, and no filtering. 

 

 

One and a half, that is exactly the information I was looking for.  Thank you very much!

 

This might actually help me get off the DSD treadmill.  

With DSD256 and DSD512 I was anticipating another server upgrade.

And with the Mutec I'm hoping it would be better than going for a DAC upgrade.

 

Regards.

 

  

 

[julian.david]

35 minutes ago, Nikhil said:

 

@julian.david will you be at the Munich show?  

I have just made plans to visit the show on Friday and Saturday.

 

 

Yes, absolutely. We'll be in hall 2 this year, booth F01 right next to one of the main entrances. And yes, it will be worth the visit and we will have some exciting news for you ;-) 

[Tand]

21 minutes ago, julian.david said:

 

Yes, absolutely. We'll be in hall 2 this year, booth F01 right next to one of the main entrances. And yes, it will be worth the visit and we will have some exciting news for you ;-) 

 

Any chance it is the Ref10?

[One and a half]

44 minutes ago, Nikhil said:

 

One and a half, that is exactly the information I was looking for.  Thank you very much!

 

This might actually help me get off the DSD treadmill.  

With DSD256 and DSD512 I was anticipating another server upgrade.

And with the Mutec I'm hoping it would be better than going for a DAC upgrade.

 

Regards.

 

  

 

 

Processing for DSD256 is OK for my PC, it doesn't struggle, 16 processors and 28GB RAM.... also a smaller i7 M93p tiny also didn't struggle, think it went to 39% processing.

 

If I remember you have a Lampizator DAC, does it have AES3 input? Perhaps another DAC?

[Miko]

The dirty little secret is most recording studios mix, record at 96k.. very few do 192k and only a small handful record in hi rez I.e. DSD.

 

the equipment is terribly expensive so these places are not tearing out 5-6 figures worth of stuff to replace it with the same stuff that offers no real reason to do so aside from a small amount of additional headroom.

 

This whole hi rez upsampling, native DAD et al is pure marketing hype to sell product with the promise of better sound.

 

Fact is, the current redbook standard was based in part to be compatible with the recording equipment available at the time.

 

It's taken 30+ years for us to finally get decent sound out of CD and now I'm supposed to rush out and buy the latest and greatest DAC/transport because it can magically create "musical filler"? 

 

Upsampling is simply creating additional samples by approximation. You cannot recreate something from nothing. 128 x 0 = 0

 

That is why 2x/4x/100x oversampling doesn't sound good. You are injecting artificial recreated signal which is missing phase and timing cues or contains phase and timing cues in error. Which in part is giving rise to the current buzz word "dither" 

[Nikhil]

4 hours ago, One and a half said:

If I remember you have a Lampizator DAC, does it have AES3 input? Perhaps another DAC?

 

Yes I have a Lampizator Amber - SE only no AES.

I also have the Job Integrated which has an internal DAC.   

 

Both accept SPDIF input so that's what I was planning to use for the Mutec.

[6aardvark9]

Hi All,

Currently set up with the folowing chain:

MacBook Pro (A+) > Intona > iFi microUSB3.0 > Mutec 3+USB > Hugo TT (via SP/DIF)

The Mutec has the latest firmware, and in use the top 3 lights of the 'Reference' column  are illuminated indicating (I guess) that input from either USB-PCM or USB-DSD/DoP will be recognised. I use 'Mode' settings 'Intern' plus 'Re-Clk'

Using A+ (version 2.6.something) it operates faultlessly with PCM input and sounds great, however I recently tried playing some DSD 128 files and I get no audio output at all... the Mutec has no 'Lock' or 'Audio' lights illuminated in the 'Status' column. 

Most likely I am doing something wrong with some settings somewhere as I'm quite new to the 'digital arena', perhaps someone could shed some light on my problem?

Thanks...

[Nikhil]

22 hours ago, julian.david said:

 

Yes, absolutely. We'll be in hall 2 this year, booth F01 right next to one of the main entrances. And yes, it will be worth the visit and we will have some exciting news for you ;-) 

 

Julian,

 

Thank you for the info.  I look forward to my visit (and the surprise!)

 

 

[pam1975]

Mutec is releasing shortly an external 10Mhz clock (above 3K euro though). 

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, 6aardvark9 said:

Hi All,

Currently set up with the folowing chain:

MacBook Pro (A+) > Intona > iFi microUSB3.0 > Mutec 3+USB > Hugo TT (via SP/DIF)

The Mutec has the latest firmware, and in use the top 3 lights of the 'Reference' column  are illuminated indicating (I guess) that input from either USB-PCM or USB-DSD/DoP will be recognised. I use 'Mode' settings 'Intern' plus 'Re-Clk'

Using A+ (version 2.6.something) it operates faultlessly with PCM input and sounds great, however I recently tried playing some DSD 128 files and I get no audio output at all... the Mutec has no 'Lock' or 'Audio' lights illuminated in the 'Status' column. 

Most likely I am doing something wrong with some settings somewhere as I'm quite new to the 'digital arena', perhaps someone could shed some light on my problem?

Thanks...

 

Have a double check of the DSD settings in A+. They should be set to DoP and the sample rate green to DSD128. OSX nativey doesn't do DSD256 unless the dac vendor provides a driver.

Your other settings look OK.

[Miko]

1 hour ago, pam1975 said:

Mutec is releasing shortly an external 10Mhz clock (above 3K euro though). 

 

I'm not sure it would be of much use in a home audio system. That money could be better spent cascading multiple Mutec's together no?

 

Has anyone tried the external clocking feature with a DAC? I don't see in the owners manual a way to reclock and externally clock at the same time.

 

Besides, Mutec already has the iclock..

[pam1975]

@Mikoyes, but their external one brings SQ to a higher level...i have the Mutec doc about the incoming external clock (i doubt i can post here?)...there is also a thread on this on another forum

[6aardvark9]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

 

Have a double check of the DSD settings in A+. They should be set to DoP and the sample rate green to DSD128. OSX nativey doesn't do DSD256 unless the dac vendor provides a driver.

Your other settings look OK.

 

Thanks for the feedback, I had it set on 'Detect Automatically' and the sample rate did show green up to DSD128... I will try as you suggest at the weekend and let you know

[Miko]

I think for the price of 3 MC3's, I'd rather do that then one word clock that's really designed to be used in studios to sync multiple digital devices together.. I can't see how that could be better then a fleet of MC3's...