Mutec MC-3+

[modmix]

Hi Joel,

The new MC-3+ USB will adjust to the incoming sample rate on the AES/EBU or BNC input as well as with the USB input?

I'm beta-testing a lab version of the MC-3+ USB and can now confirm the rate is switched automatically to the rate on either inputs, be it AES/EBU or be it USB.

 

And - first impression after listening to not yet final hardware:

USB feeding the MC-3+ USB gives simply intriguing sound quality.

 

Any idea as to the release date...?

They hope to be ready in August.

 

Cheers,

Ulli

[accwai]

Hi Joel,

I'm beta-testing a lab version of the MC-3+ USB and can now confirm the rate is switched automatically to the rate on either inputs, be it AES/EBU or be it USB.

 

And - first impression after listening to not yet final hardware:

USB feeding the MC-3+ USB gives simply intriguing sound quality.

 

I'm seriously considering getting one when it comes out and cascade it to an existing MC-3+. Could you elaborate on what's "intriguing" about the sound quality? Thanks.

[modmix]

Could you elaborate on what's "intriguing" about the sound quality?

Do you know pitch23.pdf? This phrase at the very beginnig describes my current understanding:

The raw data acquired by the outer, middle, and inner ear are passed first to the primary auditory cortex, which in turn produces a kind of executive summary of the sound, suitable for the busy conscious mind.

The "executive summaries" when listening to the MC-3+ USB are much closer to what I get when listening to real instruments or voices.

 

For quite a while RME AES Hammerfall was my DDC - until I tried a WCLK produced by 10MHz referenced MC-3+ at the WCLKin of the RME card - better. As switching the rate at the MC-3+ made things a bit complicated, I switched over to a WaveIO. At the end, WaveIO was supplied by Paul Hynes PR3, was connected via USB isolator (my DEQX doesn't play higher than 96k, anyway), was driven by a Paul Pang PPAv4 also supplied by a PR3 which also supplies the TPS7A4700EVM providing the 3.3 V of the PPAv4, all that in a PCIe-USB Riser - quite an effort with quite good result.

 

The MC-3+ USB plays at least at the same level.

 

All that of course are first impressions...

 

hth

Ulli

[pre]

It would be good to know if the MC-3+ USB and/or Mutec 1.2 supports USB input from Linux source ? (Like daphile or Jriver Linux music players)

 

Other topic is that if USB based source is 16/44khz, are there settings that MC3+ USB or Mutec 1.2 could upsample to 24/96khz (as AES EBU) ?

[modmix]

It would be good to know if the MC-3+ USB and/or Mutec 1.2 supports USB input from Linux source ? (Like daphile or Jriver Linux music players)

I've done it with the Mutec MC-1.2:

MC-3+USB should do it as well - no Linux pc for the time being.

Under Windows, MC-1.2 und MC-3+USB can make use of the same USB driver...

 

Other topic is that if USB based source is 16/44khz, are there settings that MC3+ USB or Mutec 1.2 could upsample to 24/96khz (as AES EBU) ?

Not that I know...

You could of course use an upsampler inside your player...

 

Happy ears

Ulli

[pre]

Your linked MC 1.2 picture above in Settings for MC-1.2 USB 2.0 (...) hw selection is giving me the idea, that your environment in Audiophile LINUX is having the hw device selection and if that is working OK,

it has exactly what I need :-)

 

My earlier plan was to use behringger SRC 24 96´s (up-conversion) 24bit/96khz AES interface to dcx 2496 and replace that by using more modern (&expensive) Mutec 1.2 USB or MC3+USB for the AES/EBU with possible up-conversion and especially the great Mutec USB input interface for music player. The online up-conversion in player is also ok, but requires some hw power, that not necessary exist in my current HW player .

 

Thanks a lot for the tips & ideas!

[pre]

I just tested Mutec MC-1.2 with Jriver Linux & Nuforce DAC (olf nuffie DAC HW supports only up to 96kHz) and system works in initial test.

 

MC-1.2 Linux support is not confirmed to be available from Mutec factory, but USB signal from ubuntu 14.04. seems to go through MC-1.2 @96kHz and further with s/p-diff fiber to DAC

:-)

[joelha]

Anyone know when the Mutec MC-3+USB will be available?

 

The last I heard, August is when the new device should be released.

 

Joel

[john925]

Hi Joel,

I'm beta-testing a lab version of the MC-3+ USB and can now confirm the rate is switched automatically to the rate on either inputs, be it AES/EBU or be it USB.

 

And - first impression after listening to not yet final hardware:

USB feeding the MC-3+ USB gives simply intriguing sound quality.

 

They hope to be ready in August.

 

Cheers,

Ulli

 

Can Mutec MC3+usb recognize Dop and set clock output to 44.1kHz or its multiples? Thanks.

 

John

[julian.david]

Can Mutec MC3+usb recognize Dop and set clock output to 44.1kHz or its multiples? Thanks.

 

John

 

Hi John, the MC-3+USB does in fact recognize the DoP format and will convert from DoP format to PCM at a user-specified sample rate. So you can set the PCM audio rate to 44.1 kHz and its multiples up to 176.4 kHz. The clock outputs can be set to mirror the frame rate of the audio outputs and its multiples as well. Does that answer your question?

[matthias]

Does MC-3+USB allow INPUT USB DSD256 and OUTPUT USB DSD256 ?

 

KR Matt

[john925]

Hi John, the MC-3+USB does in fact recognize the DoP format and will convert from DoP format to PCM at a user-specified sample rate. So you can set the PCM audio rate to 44.1 kHz and its multiples up to 176.4 kHz. The clock outputs can be set to mirror the frame rate of the audio outputs and its multiples as well. Does that answer your question?

 

Hi,

 

Do you mean DoP(DSD on PCM) will be converted to PCM by Mutec MC-3+USB? Couldn't it be set to just bypassing the DoP via SPDIF out to DACs like Mytek DSD 192 to decode DSD signal?

 

It's great to know the clock output can be set as identical as the input signal or its multiples.

 

John

[julian.david]

Does MC-3+USB allow INPUT USB DSD256 and OUTPUT USB DSD256 ?

KR Matt

 

Hi Matt, I'm afraid the MC-3+USB will not support DSD256. Upon product launch, only the DoP formats at 64 and 128 will be supported, but support for native DSD64 and DSD128 signals will be added as a free software update. DSD256 however is not going to be possible due to technical reasons. If you don't mind me asking, what exactly were you hoping to do? What source? What receiver?

Cheers, Julian

[accwai]

[...] Upon product launch, only the DoP formats at 64 and 128 will be supported, [...]

 

Any idea when the product launch would be?

 

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly were you hoping to do? What source? What receiver?

 

I'm not the OP for the DSD question. But in my case, the plan is to have the MC-3+USB goes AES to a regular MC-3+, then from the 2nd MC-3+ AES to the DAC. The DAC supports DoP on the AES input up to 64Fs. And I'll be feeding PCM most of the time anyway. Shouldn't be any problem right?

[matthias]

Hi Matt, I'm afraid the MC-3+USB will not support DSD256.

 

Native DSD256 support should be standard for a new product launch in 2015.

 

KR Matt

[Fyper]

I think it should be DSD512...

[matthias]

I think it should be DSD512...

 

This is the gold standard:-)

 

KR Matt

[julian.david]

Native DSD256 support should be standard for a new product launch in 2015.

 

KR Matt

 

Matt, I appreciate your opinion and MUTEC is certainly taking all of this into consideration. Just to come back to your original statement: what kind of setup are you imaging exactly?

Julian

[julian.david]

Any idea when the product launch would be?

 

Definitely this fall. It could be as early as September, but a few things are still up in the air. Will keep you posted!

 

I'm not the OP for the DSD question. But in my case, the plan is to have the MC-3+USB goes AES to a regular MC-3+, then from the 2nd MC-3+ AES to the DAC. The DAC supports DoP on the AES input up to 64Fs. And I'll be feeding PCM most of the time anyway. Shouldn't be any problem right?

 

At this point the MC-3+USB would convert the DoP/DSD Stream to PCM and not distribute the the DoP-Signal via AES3 or S/P-DIF. So in this case, the second MC-3+ would just do a straight reclocking (i.e. you have a twin-reclocking cascade) before sending the signal to the DAC. There wouldn't be a way to maintain the DoP Stream all the way to the DAC. Even if the MC-3+USB would support it, it wouldn't work with the MC-3+. Does that make sense?

[accwai]

Definitely this fall. It could be as early as September, but a few things are still up in the air. Will keep you posted!

 

That would be great. Thanks.

 

At this point the MC-3+USB would convert the DoP/DSD Stream to PCM and not distribute the the DoP-Signal via AES3 or S/P-DIF. So in this case, the second MC-3+ would just do a straight reclocking (i.e. you have a twin-reclocking cascade) before sending the signal to the DAC. There wouldn't be a way to maintain the DoP Stream all the way to the DAC. Even if the MC-3+USB would support it, it wouldn't work with the MC-3+. Does that make sense?

 

Not really

 

How about this: If the MC-3+USB would leave the DoP alone and hands it off to the next MC-3+ as is via AES, the second MC-3+ doesn't know what DoP is, so it would be passed to the DAC as is. The spec sheet for the DAC says it can accept DoP over AES, so it would be recognized at that point. If the original stream is PCM, it would again pass through the chain and be recognized at the DAC. Is that possible?

[matthias]

Matt, I appreciate your opinion and MUTEC is certainly taking all of this into consideration. Just to come back to your original statement: what kind of setup are you imaging exactly?

Julian

 

Julian, I would need it for USB regeneration only, so USB in and USB out, but this function can do the Uptone Regen anyway.

Nevermind.

 

KR Matt

[julian.david]

How about this: If the MC-3+USB would leave the DoP alone and hands it off to the next MC-3+ as is via AES, the second MC-3+ doesn't know what DoP is, so it would be passed to the DAC as is. The spec sheet for the DAC says it can accept DoP over AES, so it would be recognized at that point. If the original stream is PCM, it would again pass through the chain and be recognized at the DAC. Is that possible?

 

Got it. Will be double-checking this with MUTEC developers.

[tgb]

Hi,

I just posted on the thread related to the MC-1.2, but my feedback is relevant for all Mutec boxes :

CUT the internal SMPS of your Mutec => REPLACE it with a 5V power bank !

 

Mutec internal PS are really bad for hifi !

Power it with a fairly simple & cheap 5V power bank and you'll be able to hear REALLY what a Mutec can do : a really really good job, very far from what a non-tweaked Mutec can do.

 

=> here is the info :

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/mutec-mc-1-2-a-24774/#post462643

Just follow the links, use google translate if you need so, and you'll know everything about what you MUST do with your Mutec.

Rgds

[julian.david]

Dear tgb,

 

First of all, allow me to say that MUTEC very much cares about high-quality audio and that we strive to deliver the best possible products to our customers. As some of you know, the older MUTEC products like the MC-1.1+ were developed for the studio and broadcast markets where features and problem solving capabilities can be more important than the last 1% of noise suppression. However, we have had an incredibly positive response from hifi/audiophile customers with the MC-1.2 and MC-3+ products and have since transitioned to paying more attention to audiophile consumer audio fans. We do care about the particular needs and demands of your passion! As a consequence, we’ve been working hard on improving the PSU filtering and post-processing of the power supply, and there are several generations of circuit board design between the MC-1.1+ and the MC-3+. As a consequence, the modifications that you’re describing will have a far less significant effect on the MC-3+ as on the MC-1.1+ for example. We advise against modifying your MUTEC product, but if you must please do so with utmost care and know that your warranty will be voided.

 

With the brand new MC-3+ Smart Clock USB about to launch, this topic should really be a thing of the past as we’re introducing multi-stage noise filtering, new ultra-low noise oscillator circuits and yet another host of modifications to significantly improve the re-clocked and converted audio ensuring that our products live up to your expectations.

 

Kind regards,

Julian

MUTEC Marketing

[tgb]

Hi Julian,

I must admit a few days after I wrote this post, that the words I used are too strong. I APOLOGIZE sincerely about that.

 

It is based on my own experience and some others confirmed.

The pretty high sensitivity of my setup to a dead clean source (vs digital & EMI) maybe the reason why I had to tweak My MC-1.1+. Tweak that I did not find relevant when I own the MC-3+ on a previous setup which was far less sensitive to clean source.

My point was to tell that Mutec products produce pretty good products, but they can sound at top level by changing the power supply.

 

My post focused on what I felt & experienced to be the "parts to tweak to enhance the SQ of the products".

My post was not to say Mutec products are bad.

Mutec products ARE GOOD & KEY FOR AUDIO.

Price/performance ratio is good. Functions offered by your boxes are smart & motherboards are top quality.

My MC-3+ did a great job when I used it.

My current MC-1.1+ is doing a tremedous job in my current setup where I need a TOP NOTCH splitter to feed 2 full digital amplifiers with top clean digital stream.

But on this very sensitive setup I needed to tweak it.

I did not think at all about sending it back to my seller, no way !

The MC-1.1+ did the job, but it sounded harsh thru my setup. Then the trouble was not the top good motherboard & functionalities, but as it is often the case in digital audio : when it sounds harsh > clean the power supply > and sounds is OK afterwards.

This is what I did.

 

Please note that after I posted about this trouble, another guy, with another setup, did not complaint about harshness with its MC-1.1+. Thus it seems it is very function of the setup.

 

Of course, I did it with care, all that kind of change must be done if you know about these electronic products.

My MC-1.1+ lost its warranty a few days after I bought it, I knew about that... but is part of my gear for a long time now.

 

I just wanted to make it clear that of course I keep trusting Mutec products quality, no doubt about it.

 

Rgds