The Aurenders S10 & W20

[fjmcsu]

I have seen a only a few postings regarding users of the mentioned machines. The information from Chris was also noted in the past. I would like to give my user experience with both machines having lived for about a year with the S and ~a month with the W. My journey in the music server started with a 2011 Mac mini with upgraded(8gb) RAM and various applications including Pure Music, Amarra(full), and Fidelia. Athough I enjoyed the process of setting up a system I grew tired of continual bugs, upgrade subsequent bugs etc. I began investigating a more turnkey approach & decided on the Widelab offerings. The article on this site by Chris, my interaction with Maier Shadi at the Audio Salon convinced me to make the sizable investment and sell my other gear. I preface my thought s on the system by stating that the DAC used is the BADA alpha. I converted every CD, Blue Ray, DVD-A I had in my home(to FLAC) using some of the software mentioned on the site and I am grateful to those who mentioned their experience with them prior to my buying such material.

The S10 was revelatory to me especially regards to ease of use, minimal hastle factor and simply amazing back up and support by Eric Shim at Widealab and Maier with his great relationship with those at Widealab. The 10 using the USB(solo & with alpha USB) as well as XLR output was amazing in its ability to produce the spatial cues and presentation I craved and enjoyed in my analog side of things. The 20 has leaped frogged in the same vein but to a much greater degree in my mind probably due to the amazing low noise/distortion helped (I am told) by the use of the battery pack running the system once started. The 10 it apears to has allowed the production team to focus on specifics such as better USB isolation, the battery, larger storage etc. I have enjoyed the use of the iPad application and it has matured also over the past year due to user input I am sure. I am not an audio reviewer and have no financial interest in the companies mentioned but just wanted to briefly give my thumbs up to this system and allow others(particularly users) to add comment also. Perhaps additions, issues could all be included in this thread in the hopes of improving the experience for users and possibly future users of the products.

[Nuno Brazuna]

Hello,

 

I had an S10 for about 7 months, and in September I change to a W20.

 

The W20 is a fantastic streamer...better than Lumin wothout any doubts. I had both to listen and in the end I choose the W20...but the better sound was expeted at double the price and without DAC (I have an Ayon Stealth DAC) !!

 

Nuno

[One and a half]

I had a good look at the W20, and it ticks some very good points one of them, eliminating the need for a computer to play music.

The dedicated USB connection for an external DAC, and the ability to play DSD are two show stoppers. For the price I cannot live with s/pdif only outputs. Still, will keep an eye on the W30 or whatever model the w20 is superceded by and see what that offers.

[Mike Gillespie]

I thought about the Aurender for an EMM Dac2x setup too... but then a friend bought the Phasure nos1 Dac/server/software and loves it...

 

For about $7,000 including shipping for Holland you get it all and supposedly fantastic sound with the XXHighend software included? The software upsamples in the computer. The program is turnkey as well. Nothing to do. My friend is a total computer novice.

 

See this thread I ran: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/whos-tried-phasure-nos1-digital-analogue-converter-18457/

[AudioDoctor]

I had a good look at the W20, and it ticks some very good points one of them, eliminating the need for a computer to play music.

The dedicated USB connection for an external DAC, and the ability to play DSD are two show stoppers. For the price I cannot live with s/pdif only outputs. Still, will keep an eye on the W30 or whatever model the w20 is superceded by and see what that offers.

 

What exactly are you saying is a showstopepr? Lack of DSD playback support?

 

These are the outputs the W20 has.

 

Coaxial, Optical, 2 AES/EBU, BNC, custom designed port for USB Audio Class 2.0

[Elberoth]

The latest firmware update adds DSD support.

 

Posted on December 16, 2013

Aurender App 1.7.29 & System Software 3.4.65

 

Version Release Notes

Details on the new Aurender App and System Software versions released on December 18, 2013 are as follows:

DSD playback support

DFF/DSF 64x and 128x (DSD only, does not support DST)

New DSD filter button

When copying the DSD ISO to Aurender, ISO will be extracted to DFF and removed. If ISO extraction fails, “failed” will be added to the end of the filename.

Please keep a copy of the DSD ISO in a safe placed or backed up on another device.

Extracting ISO files to DFF files is the part of the scanning process and is automatic. We recommend not playing music during scanning. If music is played during scanning, there might be some noise or slight distortion during playback.

To check if scanning is in progress, please check the Scanner tab in the Settings menu of the Aurender App.

Improved updating of music library database. Now, will not reset contents while updating rating information.

Fixed compatibility issue with adaptive USB DACs

Support for Mytek DAC USB 2.0 mode. (1.0 mode is not suported). The USB Hot plug is not supported. If something goes wrong, Mytek DAC needs to be manually turned off and on.

In the W20, the power to the USB Audio Class 2.0 port can be turned off using the iPad App. If turned off, the Aurender will automatically reboot. We do not recomend using this function, unless you really want to disconnect the power of the USB Audio output port for a specific reason.

Fixed occasional problem with registration failing.

Fixed occasional problem with iPad registration.

Fixed the queue and progress information not being updated in certain instances.

When there is only one Aurender connected, it will be connected automatically and not appear in the server list window.

There is a new tab for Disc Informatjon in Settings of the iPad App.

Improved Clone feature for copying contents from one Aurender to another.

Now shows the result on a target’s AMOLED when cloning is finished.

Reduced overall size of the music library information database.

Fixed search feature not working when the keyword contains ‘

Fixed occasional problems related to Save Playlist.

Fixed other minor issues and improved stability.

For your reference, below is a list of DSD capable DACs that we and our partners found worked with the Aurender. A specific version of the firmware might have to be downloaded and installed, even though the DAC model is listed below.

dCS : Vivaldi, Debussy

MSB : DAC IV, Analog DAC

Weiss : DAC202DSD, Medea+DSD, Medusa

Auralic : Vega

Bricasti : M1

Chord : Chordette quteHD

B.M.C : DAC-1

Luxman

Lumin Audio

Mytek : Stereo 192-DSD DAC

The list is for just your reference only. We cannot guarantee compatibility with the above listed DACs and it is not the complete list of DSD capable DACs that are compatible with the Aurender. Many DACs not listed above work flawlessly with Aurender digital music players.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged Release Notes by Aurenderphile.

[AudioDoctor]

The latest firmware update adds DSD support.

 

Posted on December 16, 2013

Aurender App 1.7.29 & System Software 3.4.65

 

Version Release Notes

Details on the new Aurender App and System Software versions released on December 18, 2013 are as follows:

DSD playback support

DFF/DSF 64x and 128x (DSD only, does not support DST)

New DSD filter button

When copying the DSD ISO to Aurender, ISO will be extracted to DFF and removed. If ISO extraction fails, “failed” will be added to the end of the filename.

Please keep a copy of the DSD ISO in a safe placed or backed up on another device.

Extracting ISO files to DFF files is the part of the scanning process and is automatic. We recommend not playing music during scanning. If music is played during scanning, there might be some noise or slight distortion during playback.

To check if scanning is in progress, please check the Scanner tab in the Settings menu of the Aurender App.

Improved updating of music library database. Now, will not reset contents while updating rating information.

Fixed compatibility issue with adaptive USB DACs

Support for Mytek DAC USB 2.0 mode. (1.0 mode is not suported). The USB Hot plug is not supported. If something goes wrong, Mytek DAC needs to be manually turned off and on.

In the W20, the power to the USB Audio Class 2.0 port can be turned off using the iPad App. If turned off, the Aurender will automatically reboot. We do not recomend using this function, unless you really want to disconnect the power of the USB Audio output port for a specific reason.

Fixed occasional problem with registration failing.

Fixed occasional problem with iPad registration.

Fixed the queue and progress information not being updated in certain instances.

When there is only one Aurender connected, it will be connected automatically and not appear in the server list window.

There is a new tab for Disc Informatjon in Settings of the iPad App.

Improved Clone feature for copying contents from one Aurender to another.

Now shows the result on a target’s AMOLED when cloning is finished.

Reduced overall size of the music library information database.

Fixed search feature not working when the keyword contains ‘

Fixed occasional problems related to Save Playlist.

Fixed other minor issues and improved stability.

For your reference, below is a list of DSD capable DACs that we and our partners found worked with the Aurender. A specific version of the firmware might have to be downloaded and installed, even though the DAC model is listed below.

dCS : Vivaldi, Debussy

MSB : DAC IV, Analog DAC

Weiss : DAC202DSD, Medea+DSD, Medusa

Auralic : Vega

Bricasti : M1

Chord : Chordette quteHD

B.M.C : DAC-1

Luxman

Lumin Audio

Mytek : Stereo 192-DSD DAC

The list is for just your reference only. We cannot guarantee compatibility with the above listed DACs and it is not the complete list of DSD capable DACs that are compatible with the Aurender. Many DACs not listed above work flawlessly with Aurender digital music players.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized and tagged Release Notes by Aurenderphile.

 

 

That is very good to know, thanks.

[One and a half]

What exactly are you saying is a showstopepr? Lack of DSD playback support?

 

These are the outputs the W20 has.

 

Thanks to Elberoth for the update to DSF/DFF playback. The main website is not updated, obviously. At this price level I expect better information and not buried in the News column. Sloppy.

 

One of the show stoppers is the 'missing DSD' support, now found. The other show stopper is the wording of the customised USB Port.

 

I get the heebee jeebies reading this rather vague description, without further explanation on the specs page. I read under the player app, the 5V rail can be switched off, and the technology section, makes this output clean. Clean, by how much...??? Makes the whites, whiter than white comparison for detergent.

 

Numbers and ripple are good for a start, even a scop picture is OK, wthout scales even if you want to hide something.... Spell it out on the specifications page, that's the REFERENCE of what the device will do, without question.

 

After spending five figure sum, now for the shining moment to attach your DAC to the Aurender.

 

This statement doesn't wash, and is not good enough. Maybe it will work, yes, take your DAC to the nearest dealer to try it, in my case, 2500 miles away. I would want a guarantee in stone that the W20 will work with any DAC, from a DragonFly to a Gryphon Kalliope and everything in between.

 

It all sounds too hard to worry about. I can see more convincing reasons to stick with a MacMini, it seems the "OS Free" music servers need to have substantial hours on the clock.

 

I'm very happy for the owners who contributed to the thread to tell us of their experiences and the W20 worked well for them, and I wish you many hours of enjoyment. Just takes these comments from a grumpy audiophile that likes to question, but doesn't find the answers from the manufacturer to be 100%.

[AudioDoctor]

Thanks to Elberoth for the update to DSF/DFF playback. The main website is not updated, obviously. At this price level I expect better information and not buried in the News column. Sloppy.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9651[/ATTACH]

 

One of the show stoppers is the 'missing DSD' support, now found. The other show stopper is the wording of the customised USB Port.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9652[/ATTACH]

 

I get the heebee jeebies reading this rather vague description, without further explanation on the specs page. I read under the player app, the 5V rail can be switched off, and the technology section, makes this output clean. Clean, by how much...??? Makes the whites, whiter than white comparison for detergent.

 

Numbers and ripple are good for a start, even a scop picture is OK, wthout scales even if you want to hide something.... Spell it out on the specifications page, that's the REFERENCE of what the device will do, without question.

 

After spending five figure sum, now for the shining moment to attach your DAC to the Aurender.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9655[/ATTACH]

 

This statement doesn't wash, and is not good enough. Maybe it will work, yes, take your DAC to the nearest dealer to try it, in my case, 2500 miles away. I would want a guarantee in stone that the W20 will work with any DAC, from a DragonFly to a Gryphon Kalliope and everything in between.

 

It all sounds too hard to worry about. I can see more convincing reasons to stick with a MacMini, it seems the "OS Free" music servers need to have substantial hours on the clock.

 

I'm very happy for the owners who contributed to the thread to tell us of their experiences and the W20 worked well for them, and I wish you many hours of enjoyment. Just takes these comments from a grumpy audiophile that likes to question, but doesn't find the answers from the manufacturer to be 100%.

 

I still am not sure exactly what your complaint is. Call up Apple and ask them if their Mac Mini is compatible with each and every DAC on the market, report back what they say... You seem to be trying very hard to not like the W20. Chris has a review of the S10 on this site, and is working on a review of the W20 (I think) right now.

 

Does Apple provide the ripple measurements for the Mac Mini USB output? A scope picture?

 

I think you are making a mountain out of a grain of sand. Have you emailed Aurender to ask any of your questions?

[One and a half]

I still am not sure exactly what your complaint is. Call up Apple and ask them if their Mac Mini is compatible with each and every DAC on the market, report back what they say... You seem to be trying very hard to not like the W20. Chris has a review of the S10 on this site, and is working on a review of the W20 (I think) right now.

 

Does Apple provide the ripple measurements for the Mac Mini USB output? A scope picture?

 

I think you are making a mountain out of a grain of sand. Have you emailed Aurender to ask any of your questions?

 

The expectation is a device that plugs into another is that they both work. Like a computer and a mouse. Not maybe, that doesn't wash.

The W20 is short of USD20k, maybe you have enough disposable income to give Aurender on a hunch it might work with your DAC? for that money, it had better work.

 

Anyway a couple of new Aurender music servers for the Korean market are now available, so the discussion of the W20 can be halted. The X100S and X100L are rumoured to be priced at 10% of the W20, a far more sensible arrangement.

 

 

 

 

 

Now, will they work with my DAC?

[AudioDoctor]

The expectation is a device that plugs into another is that they both work. Like a computer and a mouse. Not maybe, that doesn't wash.

The W20 is short of USD20k, maybe you have enough disposable income to give Aurender on a hunch it might work with your DAC? for that money, it had better work.

 

Anyway a couple of new Aurender music servers for the Korean market are now available, so the discussion of the W20 can be halted. The X100S and X100L are rumoured to be priced at 10% of the W20, a far more sensible arrangement.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9662[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9663[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9664[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9665[/ATTACH]

 

Now, will they work with my DAC?

 

Did Apple assure you that your Mini would work with every DAC on the market before you bough it?

[One and a half]

Did Apple assure you that your Mini would work with every DAC on the market before you bough it?

 

Apple make no such assurance.

 

Let me put it another way. I see the USB cable connecting the DAC and music server device, no different to an analog audio interconnect. The electrical values of the USB connector, the DAC plugs into, surely need to be within the ball park, the same as a wire with an RCA at either end, so that the electrical signal is transferred.

 

Dedicated music servers do have USB ports fitted, they usually fall into two camps.

1. A DAC connection

2. For HDD/USB sticks only for expansion.

 

Aurender would have been better off re-writing their news articles and protecting their reputation to say

 

" We have tested the DACs as listed, and we know these work with the W10/W20. We are undergoing tests for A, B & C. If you wish to know if your DAC will work, fill out this form and we will advise accordingly."

I have found, quite often manufacturers in Asia to unresponsive by email to the hobbyist. If you do get an answer, a 'yes' is offered but is really is a no, just to be polite. It's a cultural difference that needs to be observed between eastern and western cultures.

 

They will be hammered with the same question for the newer cheaper models, as the market opens on a wider scale.

[AudioDoctor]

Apple make no such assurance.

 

Let me put it another way. I see the USB cable connecting the DAC and music server device, no different to an analog audio interconnect. The electrical values of the USB connector, the DAC plugs into, surely need to be within the ball park, the same as a wire with an RCA at either end, so that the electrical signal is transferred.

 

Dedicated music servers do have USB ports fitted, they usually fall into two camps.

1. A DAC connection

2. For HDD/USB sticks only for expansion.

 

Aurender would have been better off re-writing their news articles and protecting their reputation to say

 

" We have tested the DACs as listed, and we know these work with the W10/W20. We are undergoing tests for A, B & C. If you wish to know if your DAC will work, fill out this form and we will advise accordingly."

I have found, quite often manufacturers in Asia to unresponsive by email to the hobbyist. If you do get an answer, a 'yes' is offered but is really is a no, just to be polite. It's a cultural difference that needs to be observed between eastern and western cultures.

 

They will be hammered with the same question for the newer cheaper models, as the market opens on a wider scale.

 

A few things...

 

1) an incredible double standard

 

2) you're making a mountain out of a grain of sand

 

3) you either have not read the website, or you do not understand it. They make it pretty clear they designed a special USB output just for the connection of DACs. That language on their website was probably mandated by a lawyer, just incase someone were to get mad at them if for some unforeseen reason their DAC did not work with it. Sound familiar?

 

I have looked at the Aurender music servers more than once and not for a single moment have I wondered if the USB output would work with my DAC. Do you stay up at night worrying about whether or not your DAC will work with certain music servers, or just this one? Is it the price you don't like? Because I am having a really hard time understanding your position and the fervor with which you advocate for it. Here is a hot tip: Unless your DAC needs drivers to work in OSX/Windows, it will probably work with the W20/S10 music servers. That is no different from ANY of the other Linux based music servers, or Linux in general. If you are still worried, go download Linux, load it on your Mac Mini, get it up and running and see if you can get it to output audio to your DAC. If you can, it will work.

 

Now... Where does Apple publish the specs and scope read outs and DAC tests that you consulted before purchasing the Mini?

[One and a half]

A few things...

 

Because I am having a really hard time understanding your position and the fervor with which you advocate for it.

 

I'm not getting through, let's drop it all.

[Audio_ELF]

I'm not getting through, let's drop it all.

I would suggest that the Aurender should support any "standards complient" Class 1.0 or Class 2.0 but they offer the warning as they do not support DACs requiring proprietary drivers (excepting the Chord which they list).

[Quest]

My experience with Aurender is that even if the DAC is not supported, they would be willing to try to add it to the list. However, I believe this requires the manufacturer to work with them and provide some codes, and not all manufacturers are willing to.

 

I don't have an issue just because most of the usb/spdif converters I tried work fine with it. You'd be able to use your DAC one way or another.

[Elberoth]

After spending five figure sum, now for the shining moment to attach your DAC to the Aurender.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9655[/ATTACH]

 

This statement doesn't wash, and is not good enough. Maybe it will work, yes, take your DAC to the nearest dealer to try it, in my case, 2500 miles away. I would want a guarantee in stone that the W20 will work with any DAC, from a DragonFly to a Gryphon Kalliope and everything in between.

 

I'm not sure what your problem is either. Are you familiar with the term USB Audio Class 2.0 compliant ?

 

Aurender states that very clearly on their website, so if your dac is USB Audio Class 2.0 compliant (doesn't need drivers in layman's terms) then it will work.

 

Since they are unable to test their server with each and every DAC available on the market, they add a fairly standard statement, that they cannot guarantee, that every dac will work with it. That is understandable. What they do guarantee, is that its output is USB Audio Class 2.0 compliant - just like Apple does.

[marslo]

Hi fjmcsu,

 

I went nearly the same way as you did. I have started with my Asus Win7 and Jplay in the early 2012. Then I bought S10 in May 2012 - it was a big step forward , SQ and convenience both were much better.

I experienced some issues with playing files via usb to my dac, the flaw was rather on Aurender side.

The solution was quite simple - I installed a spdif/usb converter , first an AP, then AP+, finally I bought an outstanding Bada usb , recomended by Elberoth - thx Adam

In August I switched to W20 to even greater satisfaction.

Now my goal is to make possbile playing dsd files from Aurender. I consider Auralic Vega as a less expensive option ( for PCM and red book will keep La Fontaine ) or Dcs Vivaldi ( in this case I will trade La Fontaine).

I realy enjoy W20 , the usb audio and the battery pack are significant improvements.

Cheers

Mariusz

[fjmcsu]

Hi fjmcsu,

I realy enjoy W20 , the usb audio and the battery pack are significant improvements.

Cheers

Mariusz

Mariusz

I am happy to see you have enjoyed the W20. In the last 6 months or so it has been a joy to use. I am at the same stage you are currently regarding a new DAC (the process is always evolving isnt it? but then again that's part of the enjoyment for me). THe DCS Vivaldi seems to be a formitable piece & I bet you would get much enjoyment when paired with the W; I have seen many shows where the two are matched but I have not personally heard a system with the Vivaldi.

Francisco

[marslo]

Francisco,

 

You 're absolutely right - the persistent wish to " improve " is a part of a joy .

I had the opportunity to audition at home the W20 with Vivaldi DAC before I decided to exchange the 10 against 20.

It was the best sound I ever heard in my system . But....

When you say Vivaldi Dac , you will probably say master clock, then you say upsampler ....

At this level of price you have a new challenger - the Trinity Dac . Adam ( Elberoth ) had a chance to listen it at home and his opinion is very enthousiastic.

There are people who owned the whole Vivaldi stack and exchanged it for Trinity DAC.

I am not ready to make decision , I will probably go for few month with Auralic Vega or just wait and see.

Mariusz

P.S Your first name is much easier to remember than your nick name

[Johnny Moondog]

Extremely happy with the Aurender W20. Flawless playback to AMR DP-777 via AES/XLR or USB. Started with PS Audio PerfectWave Transport/DAC, and then customized Mac Mini's via Mach2 Music and Mojo Audio.

[Sherlock1954]

I'm not getting through, let's drop it all.

 

Well, if it's any consolation, you're post has certainly resonated with me. This is my first post and I regret it's going to be a whinge about Aurender. I had the misfortune to recently buy the new Chord Qute Ex DAC reasoning that there should be no problem with using it with the W20......WRONG!! I've been in touch with Aurender on numerous occasions and the communications from them have gone from "we've only just started supporting the Qute EX via "if this doesn't work, there's nothing else we can do because we don't know what Chord did". Finally, after I contacted Chord who were more than happy to collaborate with Aurender I've now had a message from Aurender to say that they'll be able to sort out the problem with the USB connection but that it will take some time. Apparently I'll be the first user to benefit from using The Chord with the W20 using USB. How difficult can it be to write a new Linux driver after Chord have been in touch with them? It's been well over a week since I was in touch with them.

[One and a half]

Finally, after I contacted Chord who were more than happy to collaborate with Aurender I've now had a message from Aurender to say that they'll be able to sort out the problem with the USB connection but that it will take some time. Apparently I'll be the first user to benefit from using The Chord with the W20 using USB. How difficult can it be to write a new Linux driver after Chord have been in touch with them? It's been well over a week since I was in touch with them.

 

I'm so sorry that you were experiencing trouble with the Chord DAC and the W20. Thankfully Aurender are now onto solving the problem for you. The Chord like the Meitner, Playback Designs, Ayre, maybe a few more DACs use FPGA. The devices then create a headache for the designer, since the front end needs to be designed from scratch, but the big advantage is complete freedom to write software for now and any possible future format, extending the life of your purchase.

 

Therein lies the problem, you could get away with driverless operation up to 96/24 and beyond that, you need software. Maybe Aurender has a compliance issue with the driver they thought would work with the Chord and they need to get hold of a DAC to actually prove it (I would!).

 

It is for this reason why I questioned the compatibility of the Aurender's output and to some in this thread obviously was a waste of time. So even if a device's output is compliant to USB Audio 2 standards, all that means is the road is open. How you drive on that road is very much open to interpretation.

 

Maybe Sony's new Hires DACs do not have a digital USB audio out for this reason. Just too hard?

[Sherlock1954]

Maybe Sony's new Hires DACs do not have a digital USB audio out for this reason. Just too hard?

 

Thanks. What really irked me was that Aurender were quite ready & willing to hang me out to dry until I contacted Chord. Even now I'm not hopeful of a quick resolution. I thought I'd better post here just in case any other Aurender owners were thinking of buying the new Chord DAC. Incidentally, Chord have told me that it should be reasonably simple to convert the current driver to work with the Qute EX............I first brought this problem to Aurender on 25th January. As you say, I'm able to play files up to 96/24 using, in my case, an optical cable but that's what I was able to do before I bought the new DAC..................so frustrating.

[One and a half]

Thanks. What really irked me was that Aurender were quite ready & willing to hang me out to dry until I contacted Chord. Even now I'm not hopeful of a quick resolution. I thought I'd better post here just in case any other Aurender owners were thinking of buying the new Chord DAC. Incidentally, Chord have told me that it should be reasonably simple to convert the current driver to work with the Qute EX............I first brought this problem to Aurender on 25th January. As you say, I'm able to play files up to 96/24 using, in my case, an optical cable but that's what I was able to do before I bought the new DAC..................so frustrating.

 

Now April 1, did you receive any joy from Aurender?