exaSound e18 - e20 - e28 - Info and Experiences Post All Here

[couchjr]

Thanks, Ted_b, understood. I believe GUTB's statement (from the comments on MJ-10's DAC comparison article posted by George above) referred to alleged sound improvements obtainable to Redbook CD files by up-converting those to "DSD 264" because of a mandatory sample rate conversion from 44.1 to 48 KHz in the Sabre DAC chip for native Redbook files, which was avoided at the higher resolution. Am I correct that JRiver's upsampling of Redbook files all occurs in the PCM domain and therefore would not carry an inherent sonic penalty?

 

I don't know enough math to know why up-converting before the DAC chip would sound better than converting in the DAC chip (other than a higher sampling rate possibly reducing the impact of individual timing errors and different filter parameters)--it's still a conversion. I also don't know whether George's architecture even faces the "problem" that GUTB identifies, though I've seen it mentioned in forums on DAC design. That's why I asked the question.

 

I believe George has usually advised playing each file in its original resolution/format for best sound in his DACs. As a happy e32 owner, if that's no longer the case, I'm interested in understanding the options, and what the sonic benefits and usability penalties are for each.

[ted_b]

Understood.  I was not entering the software vs hardware upsampling debate, just saying that if you choose software for upsampling DSD don't use JRiver.  It's a fine player, but doesn't handle DSD to DSD correctly.

[GUTB]

Sabres, like the 9028 in the e32, don’t perform D/A on the original PCM stream and must pass such streams through its SRC (Source Rate Conversion) module to transform the 16/24/32-bit PCM stream into a very high frequency multibit stream (4-6 bits I forget which exactly). This operation is essentially lossless. But, it has been widely observed that passing a DSD stream into the Sabre can allow the SRC stage to be skipped resulting in increased sound quality. It is theorized that the increased sound quality is due to the electronic noise generated by the SRC stage to being eliminated. Beyond the electronic noise issue, using HQPlayer you can apply very high quality upsampling filters to the process which increases quality further.

[Ralf11]

do exaSound DACs require the use of proprietary drivers on a Mac?  or is that just for Windows?

 

if so,  are they High Sierra compatible?

[Dr Tone]

9 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

do exaSound DACs require the use of proprietary drivers on a Mac?

 

To get DSD256 you would need the Mac ASIO driver.  Exasound is the only company I know of that has written such a beast for Mac.

[ted_b]

16 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

do exaSound DACs require the use of proprietary drivers on a Mac?  or is that just for Windows?

replace "require" with "thank goodness for George and company that they provide" 

[exa]

5 hours ago, couchjr said:

George, given what you know about the architecture and execution of the e32, would you agree with GUTB's comment below for users of the e32?

 

Your question comes down to comparing different implementations - DAC internal processing, made of DAC chip and firmware or using software for external processing. Our focus have always been on making our devices self sufficient and optimized for every format and resolution. My personal development efforts and listening preference are in this direction. I also like to keep my audio system as simple as possible.  

I don't know which approach is right for you, a professionally optimized system or solution that you want to assemble on your own. You can be happy either way, my advice is to stay on solid ground and to understand the technologies that you are using. There is plenty of naive and incorrect information out there.  For example the Sabre chips are not converging the 44.1 to 48kHz. It never occurred to me that the SRC stage can be eliminated for reducing electronic noise.  My personal S/N ratio is not a match for our DACs, but stopping internal nose sources like my heart and the blood circulation will bring far more damage than good.

Our devices work very well in both scenarios. You can bypass the internal volume control. Using external PCM to DSD conversion and up-sampling will work great and you will enjoy the fine D to A conversion and the character of the processing that you are fine-tuning. Our devices are very transparent and will not impose any significant  flavor of their own.

[exa]

3 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

 

To get DSD256 you would need the Mac ASIO driver.  Exasound is the only company I know of that has written such a beast for Mac.

 

All exaSound DACs support DSD256 on Mac OS both in Core Audio and ASIO mode. Core Audio works via DoP and ASIO streams native DSD. Both require the installation of our drivers. 

 

The exaSound PlayPoint/e32DAc bundle offers more convenient driverless operation. It can be controlled with Audirvana via UPnP,  HQPlayer/NAA,  and Roon.  All of these scenarios support native DSD up to DSD 265 and PCM up to 384kHz/32bit.

 

 

[Dr Tone]

14 minutes ago, exa said:

All exaSound DACs support DSD256 on Mac OS both in Core Audio and ASIO mode. Core Audio works via DoP and ASIO streams native DSD.

 

Interesting.  Since the specs on your DAC are 384kHz PCM, it still allows 705.2-768kHz DOP delivery via Core Audio for DSD256?

[exa]

28 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

 

Interesting.  Since the specs on your DAC are 384kHz PCM, it still allows 705.2-768kHz DOP delivery via Core Audio for DSD256?

 

Yes it does, with a little trick. DoP is a little trick too, so this is fair game. No loss of data whatsoever.

[Robert van Diggele]

Hello George, I am still enjoying the e38 a lot. Very convenient to play my music.

 

Is it still the case that Windows sound, Youtube for example, cannot be played on the USB input? 

 

Thanks.

 

[exa]

53 minutes ago, Robert van Diggele said:

Hello George, I am still enjoying the e38 a lot. Very convenient to play my music.

 

Is it still the case that Windows sound, Youtube for example, cannot be played on the USB input? 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Hi Robert,

 

You can use the VB-Audio ASIO Bridge. It's free: 

https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/

 

It is a bridge between the Windows sound system and ASIO and it works with all streaming services like YouTube, Tidal etc. 

 

Best,

George

[Robert van Diggele]

Hi George, thanks, I will install and play around with it.

[johndoe21ro]

3 hours ago, Robert van Diggele said:

Hello George, I am still enjoying the e38 a lot. Very convenient to play my music.

 

Is it still the case that Windows sound, Youtube for example, cannot be played on the USB input? 

 

Thanks.

 

Why in the world would you listen to YouTube?! The quality sucks! Your exaSound deserves better!

[Robert van Diggele]

20 minutes ago, johndoe21ro said:

Why in the world would you listen to YouTube?! The quality sucks! Your exaSound deserves better!

Some people make nice shows on YT plus some documentaries. And I want to try and see how this works for TV. 

 

No worries, the rest of my audio is stereo and mch flac and dsd

[mlknez]

4 hours ago, Robert van Diggele said:

Hello George, I am still enjoying the e38 a lot. Very convenient to play my music.

 

Is it still the case that Windows sound, Youtube for example, cannot be played on the USB input? 

 

Thanks.

 

Couldn't you just use the Jriver WDM driver that takes all audio traffic and routes it to whatever driver you specify in jriver for output?

[Robert van Diggele]

On 21 november 2017 at 6:47 PM, mlknez said:

Couldn't you just use the Jriver WDM driver that takes all audio traffic and routes it to whatever driver you specify in jriver for output?

Thanks, I was not aware of this, https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WDM_Driver Seems to do what I want.

[exa]

A new firmware update available for the exaSound PlayPoint. We are introducing the long-awaited support for third-party USB Audio 2.0 DACs. This is a first beta release, please give it a try with any DACs that you own.  Send us an email if you notice any glitches. 

[watts]

On 2018-02-21 at 11:58 AM, exa said:

A new firmware update available for the exaSound PlayPoint. We are introducing the long-awaited support for third-party USB Audio 2.0 DACs. This is a first beta release, please give it a try with any DACs that you own.  Send us an email if you notice any glitches. 

 

Is that the only change? If I use an exaSound DAC should I bother with the update? 

[Robert van Diggele]

George has a new Playpoint coming out in April, Playpoint DM (Dual Mono). Looks sweet

 

https://exasound.com/PlayPointDM/PlayPointDMOverview.aspx

 

Quote

Dual-Mono D/A Converter and Network Audio Server

exaSound is proud to announce the PlayPoint DM next-generation music server and DAC. Combining a reference-grade 32-bit digital-to-analog converter, balanced dual-mono headphone amplifier and Roon-enabled music server in one elegant component, the PlayPoint DM brings simplicity and sonic perfection to your music room.

With refinements like dual-mono fully balanced design, 32-bit DXD/DSD256 DAC with 16 autonomous I/V stages, and exaSound’s unique four-way galvanic isolation, PlayPoint DM will uncover every detail in your high-resolution music files, allowing you to hear the music just as it was recorded.

PlayPoint DM has a high-resolution digital volume control, so it can connect directly to your monoblock amplifiers or balanced headphones. It comes with Roon music-management software pre-installed, allowing you to browse your music library from a rich, colorful app running on your tablet or smartphone.

With state-of-the-art performance, easy operation, remote diagnostics, online updates, and exaSound’s acclaimed customer support, PlayPoint DM will be the cornerstone of your music system for years to come.

Designed and hand-made entirely in Canada
Release date: April, 2018

 

[Robert van Diggele]

 

Question: is it possible to get the Nvidia Shield TV USB audio out to the e38? Is does this not work because the Shield does not have the exa driver? Thanks.

[exa]

24 minutes ago, Robert van Diggele said:

 

Question: is it possible to get the Nvidia Shield TV USB audio out to the e38? Is does this not work because the Shield does not have the exa driver? Thanks.

You can make it to play to The JRiver WDM driver and forward the output to the JRiver e38 zone. You can also use VB-Audio ASIO Bridge: https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/

[exa]

Beside the PlayPoint DM, we've just released PlayPoint Mark II. It comes with twice more powerful CPU and double the RAM. https://exasound.com/PlayPoint/PlayPointMKIIOverview.aspx

[Robert van Diggele]

37 minutes ago, exa said:

You can make it to play to The JRiver WDM driver and forward the output to the JRiver e38 zone. You can also use VB-Audio ASIO Bridge: https://www.vb-audio.com/Cable/

Hi George, thanks. But the Shield is an android stand alone piece. Will that still work with the path you discribed?

[John G]

I have the exaSound e12 DAC playing to a C.A.P.S-style PC. Roon sees this as a generic DAC, I guess, rather than identifying the model as it does with the Audioquest Dragonfly I use at another endpoint. Everything works, but I can't control the volume of the exaSound DAC through Roon the same way I can with the Dragonfly.

 

I presume Roon sees the Audioquest because of some arrangement between the two companies. Is there any possibility that exaSound can make this happen for their DACs as well?