Ethernet cable ending: jack vs wall socket

[nununo]

Hi,

 

I have an hifi electrician installing 2 dedicated power lines for my audio system to isolate it from the rest of the house's appliances. I took the opportunity and asked him to also add 3 CAT 6 ethernet cables. So, once this is done, I can turn off wifi on my MacMini and use ethernet instead (both for increased speed and interference reduction).

 

The electrician said that I should leave the end of the cable as a loose jack instead of finishing it with an ethernet wall plug. He said the connections are the weakest point and he doesn't know of any decent ethernet plugs he could use.

 

Instead, to allow for some flexibility in the future (extending the cables if needed) he suggested adding a female plug right at the end of the ethernet jack. He argues that this female plug's connections are of much higher quality.

 

The downside is that I am left with loose ethernet wires in the living room (which I can hide, ok) instead of a neat ethernet socket.

 

Does he have a point? Can this affect the sound somehow? Or should I just tell him to end the cables in CAT 6 ethernet sockets?

 

BTW, I still don't know if I'll actually stream my music through ethernet, since, for some strange reason, everywhere I read, people say the sound quality is inferior to having an external HDD connected to my MacMini). But I'll definitely want to use it to remotely control my player.

 

Thanks in advance,

Nuno

[Audio_ELF]

Personally I think he's talking rubbish. Get him to put a wall plate in, or if he's not comfortable with doing that ask him to put a wall box in and run the cables and find someone else to terminate them.

 

Eloise

[Paul R]

I think Eloise pegged that, it is simply goofy nonsense. The only sensitive part of normal ethernet wiring is the connections, and you basically need to ensure they only strip back 1/2 inch or less of shielding. Can send you lots of details if you need them.

 

-Paul

[souptin]

I'm very much inclined to side with the two above here - I reckon the real benefit of hardwired ethernet is the ability to switch off the wifi in your music computer, and the extra reliability and speed of the connection. I think you're also right to leave the option of local hdd storage of music versus nas as to-be-decided - even with cache modes and pre-loading into ram some players just seem to prefer local.

 

Having said that, maybe you could persuade your audiophile sparky to help you with an experiment: Have two wall boxes side by side (ime, extra sockets is never a bad thing anyway!), and set one up with the standard ethernet socket and the other with a loose male connector with enough extra cable to reach your computer. I figure routing two cables along the exact same wall space instead of one shouldn't add too much to the cost, and you get the chance to try both options. We might all agree that in theory it sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but hey you never know and it might be a fun test for your inner audio geek.

 

Frankly I don't understand the suggestion of extra wire with a female connection. If you need extra length in future you could just as easily get an ethernet female to male extension cable.

[phofman]

I can understand the arguments and practical experience of that guy. Ethernet wall sockets are crappy, the wires are just pressed into the V-shaped slots, they tend to get loose if not done properly the first time, repeated installing the wire can damage the whole socket. Standard ethernet plug provides better mechanical connection, no doubt about that. Also the wires loose their optimal regularly twisted configuration to much larger extent than in the standard ethernet plug.

 

On the other hand the sockets have been used successfully for decades...

[accwai]

I can understand the arguments and practical experience of that guy. Ethernet wall sockets are crappy, the wires are just pressed into the V-shaped slots, they tend to get loose if not done properly the first time, repeated installing the wire can damage the whole socket. [...]

Actually, the slot has the exact right width to tear open the cable skin and form an air tight bond with the conductor inside. You need to use a punch down tool with a blade specifically for ethernet though. The tool will push the wire all the way to the bottom of the slot and cut the excess wire at same time. When done properly, it's almost impossible to remove the wires from the block...

 

Andy

[Paul R]

Hi PHoffman -

That does not agree with my experience. Once properly punched down, the conductors are held securely and in nearly perfect contact with the jack or plug's conductors. Well done ethernet wiring lasts a very long time as well. Decades.

 

It is probably true that everyone has different experiences though.

 

-Paul

 

 

I can understand the arguments and practical experience of that guy. Ethernet wall sockets are crappy, the wires are just pressed into the V-shaped slots, they tend to get loose if not done properly the first time, repeated installing the wire can damage the whole socket. Standard ethernet plug provides better mechanical connection, no doubt about that. Also the wires loose their optimal regularly twisted configuration to much larger extent than in the standard ethernet plug.

 

On the other hand the sockets have been used successfully for decades...

[phofman]

Actually, the slot has the exact right width to tear open the cable skin and form an air tight bond with the conductor inside. You need to use a punch down tool with a blade specifically for ethernet though. The tool will push the wire all the way to the bottom of the slot and cut the excess wire at same time. When done properly, it's almost impossible to remove the wires from the block...

 

Andy

 

Yes, but I am comparing the quality of connection (electrical and especially mechanical) between the ethernet plug (male) and the ethernet socket. The punched-down wires in the V-shaped slot of the socket vs. wires cut through laterally by the knives of the plug, held at place by the plastic lock at the same time. Plus preservation of wires geometry, important for high-speed transmission.

[souptin]

Yes, but trailing plugs are assembled in the exact same way with the same punch tool (in my experience at least). So even with a single cable with no breaks from hub to computer you'll have a pair of punched down connectors? Less of them, certainly, but not eliminating them completely, which would be the 'perfectionist'* route. Unless your sparky knows of different connectors?

 

*I've done plenty of ethernet wiring, but not so much where audio is the main use. Logically I'd say it's still just data at this point, with no streaming / timing, but I have never given it the ear test.

[phofman]

Yes, but trailing plugs are assembled in the exact same way with the same punch tool (in my experience at least).

 

Trailing plugs are assembled with ethernet crimpling plies while ethernet sockets use the punching tool mentioned above. The procedure is very different. Unless you found ethernet sockets I was expecting to exist but did not find - installation using crimpling plies, very short runs of the untwisted pairs. Honestly, I was disappointed by the way ethernet sockets are wired, compared to the elegant and reliable system in the plugs.

[souptin]

Hmm, yes maybe I should look more closely. "Crimping" is a better description of what I was thinking of. Bit of an annoyance if all the fixed sockets aren't the same. Take it they're like telephone sockets where you just push the bare wire into a slot with a little plastic tool that comes in the package: not exactly mechanically inspiring. I suppose the argument is that once laid in, the cable doesn't move and the connection does its job and lasts for years, so nobody's bothered coming up with something more robust.

 

Still it'd be nice to get some comparison impressions to see if its another audiophile mountain out of molehill, or worth some further investigation, wouldn't it?

[One and a half]

Hmm, yes maybe I should look more closely. "Crimping" is a better description of what I was thinking of. Bit of an annoyance if all the fixed sockets aren't the same. Take it they're like telephone sockets where you just push the bare wire into a slot with a little plastic tool that comes in the package: not exactly mechanically inspiring. I suppose the argument is that once laid in, the cable doesn't move and the connection does its job and lasts for years, so nobody's bothered coming up with something more robust.

 

Yes, insulation displacement connectors, that's the term for the Ethernet socket? The insulation on the wire is cut through so the bare wire sits between two knives. It's a reliable connection for Ethernet and for phones, since the wire is only 24guage. If you use the right tool, it's fine, not just to shove the wire in with your fingernail and be done with it, got to sit home. You can hear the crunch as the knives bite down. I would not use the same type of connections for wires larger than 24awg, crimping is best for those.

 

Crimp connections are a lot better, cause they are gastight for the RJ45 plug. 90% of Ethernet sockets don't move, and it forms part of a fixed installation, so I would be happy with the Ethernet sockets, just fitted off about 10 of them for our house upgrade last month. However! Not all RJ45 plugs are made the same...made mistake of buying RJ45 plugs from a hardware chain store and after fitting them, they were loose in the Mac Mini and a few other RJ45. I bought some "real" ones from the electrician's shoppe, and they fit nicely, always hear that click. This is using the same crimper on both plugs.

 

Having cables hanging out of the wall is kak. Eventually something will break, or get stood on, or a piece of furniture will sit and crimp cores together, it's a very lame approach. Do however orient the RJ45 socket with the the contacts facing upwards (the keyway is at the bottom). This avoids the build up of dust and grime on unused socket contacts causing them to fail. I know this cause the dingbat who installed them in my place, professionally, did that and the connections fell apart two years later, humid environments can accelerate that of course. They weren't gold any more, the gold plating had fallen off and it was bare dark copper.

[phofman]

Hmm, yes maybe I should look more closely. "Crimping" is a better description of what I was thinking of. Bit of an annoyance if all the fixed sockets aren't the same. Take it they're like telephone sockets where you just push the bare wire into a slot with a little plastic tool that comes in the package: not exactly mechanically inspiring. I suppose the argument is that once laid in, the cable doesn't move and the connection does its job and lasts for years, so nobody's bothered coming up with something more robust.

 

Ethernet sockets are PITA to install, at least the ones I was able to get hold of were for me Wire by wire, at best with tweezers, no holder for the cable, compared to the simplicity and reliability of crimping the plug it was like from stone age

 

Still it'd be nice to get some comparison impressions to see if its another audiophile mountain out of molehill, or worth some further investigation, wouldn't it?

 

I very much doubt there would be any audible effect.

[accwai]

Yes, but I am comparing the quality of connection (electrical and especially mechanical) between the ethernet plug (male) and the ethernet socket. The punched-down wires in the V-shaped slot of the socket vs. wires cut through laterally by the knives of the plug, held at place by the plastic lock at the same time.

 

If you're this paranoid, you might want to use a keystone inline coupler instead of a regular jack. That would get rid of the slot connection and still provide you with a socket on the face plate.

 

Plus preservation of wires geometry, important for high-speed transmission.

 

If you worry about this kind of thing, you should in theory also stick to either T568A or B type wiring scheme from end to end. The external cables you use must have the same scheme as whatever is in the wall, which can be somewhat of a hassle. I do this quite religiously at home. But in less controlled environments, who would actually carry 2 patch cables and match them to the in wall scheme wherever they go? And I've never heard anybody complaining about network error or speed degradation due to changing scheme partway...

 

Andy

[phofman]

Guys, I am not saying I am afraid of wall sockets, we install and use them too. I am just saying I understand that electrician's attitude towards them. IMO he suggested a reasonable customer-oriented option.

[nununo]

Thank you for all your answers.

 

In my opinion the electrician is sincerely trying to give me what he believes to be the best solution. He says the cable jacks are vulcanized and that yields a very good connection, and replacing it with a socket would be worse. He's very professional and perfectly able to properly setup the sockets. He just thinks they're worse for my purpose.

 

@accwai, thanks! I will tell him about the keystone inline coupler because that can indeed leave me with the best of both worlds.

 

Thank you all!

 

Nuno

[Audio_ELF]

One additional problem with your electrician's suggestion is he will either be running flexible cable in wall (not a good idea) or leaving you solid-core inflexible cable trailing to your equipment (not a good idea).

 

If you use the traditional wall socket (which should be solid if he uses the correct tool and cable ties the in-wall wire to the socket as he should) then you can have in-wall cable running in the wall and flexible cable from wall to equipment - best of both worlds.

 

Eloise

[jcn3]

i agree that properly installed, the wall jacks from leviton and others are just fine. i must say however, that i have never seen an electrician wire one properly (of course, there are electricians that have a lot of networking experience that i'm sure are experts. i've just not seen one). it just requires a lot of patience and precision to do it well.

 

using the keystone coupler mentioned above will also do the job.

[bluesman]

Personally I think he's talking rubbish.

 

Well (and politely) said. I've installed RJ45 jacks in duplex wall boxes all over the house - the female connectors in the boxes are no different from those used on free cable ends. The wall jacks snap into the plate or substructure after securing the wires to them. Leaving a wall dongle seems both silly and unattractive - and it's one more thing to break off.

[bluesman]

He says the cable jacks are vulcanized

 

There's the answer - he wants to run premade Cat 5 cables with molded-on plugs through your walls. This is a common work-around for those who've had difficulty getting the relatively small wires into the correct slots on an Ethernet plug or jack. But it's not the way to do the job - run the length of raw cable you need, with a little for strain relief, and connect it properly to dedicated wall jacks.

[realhifi]

There's the answer - he wants to run premade Cat 5 cables with molded-on plugs through your walls. This is a common work-around for those who've had difficulty getting the relatively small wires into the correct slots on an Ethernet plug or jack. But it's not the way to do the job - run the length of raw cable you need, with a little for strain relief, and connect it properly to dedicated wall jacks.

 

Exactly. Your electrician is feeding you a line of bull. We do large and small networks in both residential and commercial environments and NEVER have any issues with assembling both jacks or cable ends. Sounds like he is the opposite of an experienced network person to me.

[nununo]

I don't think he's trying to fool me. Why do you say the cables are CAT 5 and not CAT 6? Aren't there CAT 6 cables with vulcanized jacks?

[Paul R]

I think the "pre made" part is the part that is important. It really doesn't make any difference if he runs Cat5, Cat5E, Cat6, or Cat6E cable, unless you plan to run 10gb networking over copper cable. 1gb networking will run fine over any of the above.

 

Running pre-made cables is just your vendor trying to cheap out and avoid terminating the cables properly. And yes, we usually see that recommendation when the vendor is not really experienced with network or data cable, like Joe Electrician taking on side jobs.

 

-Paul

 

 

I don't think he's trying to fool me. Why do you say the cables are CAT 5 and not CAT 6? Aren't there CAT 6 cables with vulcanized jacks?

[bluesman]

I don't think he's trying to fool me.

 

He's not trying to fool you. If he plans to do what I / we think he does (which is run prepackaged cable with molded-on termination through your walls), he's trying to fool himself into thinking he knows enough to do a proper job.

 

Fishing pre-molded cat 5 cable through your house and poking the ends through the walls is no different from adding a 110V outlet to a room by snaking a 25' extension cord through the walls and leaving both ends sticking out. It may work, but it's just plain wrong.

[MikeJazz]

He's not trying to fool you. If he plans to do what I / we think he does (which is run prepackaged cable with molded-on termination through your walls), he's trying to fool himself into thinking he knows enough to do a proper job.

 

If I understand that way that that "Joe" works he's planning to pass the cable and do the terminations in place (after the passage, of course). It's only the termination format that is at discussion (either "loose" ends or with in-wall jacks).

Or not?