Wyred 4 Sound Dac2SE Upgrade Revisited & Findings -- The Best Decision Unequivocally!

[jojeong8338]

Hi guys, I'm a user who is joining in W4S DAC-2 DSDse to DAC-2V2se upgrade event. All 20 KOREA users participated in it together by aid of a distributor. There is no information of DAC-2V2se with ES9038pro in my site like you. Unfortunately, it takes a couple of weeks to receive the upgrade DAC to come cross the Pacific Ocean after shipping and transfer to my home.

Actually, there are so many computer audiophiles to take interest in W4S DAC-2V2se with ES9038pro as well as X-Sabre Pro and OPPO sonica DAC. Your information help me to update myself with the test result and evaluation of upgraded DAC, comparing to other devices with ES9038pro.

As you know, I have heard that W4S attached something to make ES9038pro cooler. If available, could you show me the opened snapshots to show the heatsink or something? It's curious thing....... Many thanks for your comments in advance.

Juno

[Wyred 4 Sound]

Hello all,

Now that we’ve finalized our updates to the new DAC-2v2SE upgrade, we wanted to post a recap on things. Please refer to our original post #1411 in this thread for some background on what the issues were (specifically with DSD playback) and what we found to be the causes. In short, the sonic anomalies that could manifest themselves with DSD playback were attributable to an undisclosed register which erroneously set itself. This was coupled with the heat from the new 9038PRO chip based on placement of the DAC-2 and room temperatures it was exposed to. It should be noted that we worked with the lead designer of the 9038PRO directly on these issues, and that our original implementation was within data sheet specifications.

 

The undisclosed register was easy to reprogram. Once we were given the correct information, the playback issues resulting from that error went away (swooshing sound at startup and sporadic throughout some tracks).

 

The heat issue was interesting to find. The ESS data sheet states that the 9038 is a pin-compatible replacement for the 9018, and the exposed pad on the 9038 ”can be left open, connected to digital or analog ground. Internally connected to substrate via a conductive epoxy”, to quote ESS. Our 9038 chip implementation operated completely within acceptable temperature range, however, we found that once it reached a certain temperature after playing consecutive DSD tracks the sound would develop artifacts reminiscent of a noisy transistor. Adding to this, we found that the provided specs noted a MCLK far less than what is required for higher rate playback such as DSD256. With higher rates comes higher current demand and with that comes heat.

 

Our solution was a custom heatsink, made in-house with our CNC machine. See the images below. You can see how large the heatsink is, this was purposefully made to ensure proper cooling within a chassis that doesn’t have much moving air. Natural convection cooling is not very efficient so the heatsink disperses it over a large area. Together, with a more efficient 5v regulator we are now using, the result is a much cooler running product that is actually cooler than the previous DAC-2 DSDse!

 

We’re quite pleased with the results and our solution as the heatsink not only solves the immediate problem, but actually ensures unit performance in the long run as well. I can report that after 3 days of thermal testing, we are able to keep the chip under 45c in an 26c room playing nothing but the highest rate for maximum heat. Given the chip is tolerant up to 75c, we’re in great shape.

 

Once the updates were implemented, all reported issues were resolved and playback was flawless. I know this because I’ve been personally listening to each unit for 30 minutes before they ship. This new DAC is unbelievably engaging!

 

If you have a DAC here for upgrade, we are completing the work as I write this and you can expect an email from us with tracking information once it ships. I know we’ve said this before, but we appreciate everyone’s patience during the last 2 weeks!

 

I’ll add a final note regarding the comparisons to other DACs with the same chip: as you probably already know, ESS plays a large part in how products sound but there is still a lot of “magic” to come from what happens from the surrounding design. I have personally compared another, less expensive product with the 9038 and can share that ours surely is worth every penny!

 

Thanks,

EJ

[jrsub]

Excellent update EJ, great news on the heat reduction. Everybody has big treat in store for them when they hear this DAC! I felt mine sounded the best after about 240 hours burn in. I haven't played much with the filters but they do sound different - lot's of experimenting to be done.

[Franatic]

Thanks for the update, E J! Excellent pictures. It kind of looks like a F9038 stealth fighter. I am sure it will get years of flying time. It excites me that you speak so highly of its performance in your implementation. Your company has handled the 9038 issues perfectly and I'm very happy that you are sharing the details.

 

Thats great to hear your performance feedback, jrsub. I guess you have to consider sending it in for the stealth treatment. Running at cooler temperatures should increase performance and lifespan.

[jrsub]

Mine is on its way back to W4S for the fix. Can't wait to get it back, but am occupying myself with vinyl while it is away- which ain't so bad...

[Boldlygo]

Just shipped mine in for the new fix.

[KDinsmore]

Thank you for the update EJ.

 

Keith

[JohnDonaldson]

Got my modified DAC-2V2se back today. Sounds good right out of the box.

[audio.bill]

Would be very interested in further impressions of the ultimate performance level of the TOTL DAC-2v2SE including what other DACs it is being compared to. TIA!

[coot]

Yeah, I'm on the fence whether it's worth the $$. I don't have any DSDs above 125 and prolly never will (well, unless prices come down). So is this upgrade really worth it in other (sq) ways? It would be cool if somebody did a real side-by-side comparo.

[rah50]

Yeah, I'm on the fence whether it's worth the $$. I don't have any DSDs above 125 and prolly never will (well, unless prices come down). So is this upgrade really worth it in other (sq) ways? It would be cool if somebody did a real side-by-side comparo.

 

I don't think anyone has offered an opinion yet as to whether the upgrade is worth the $$. My unit is on it's way back now (arriving late Thursday) and I may try to put it's value in those terms if I can, memory permitting, as I have nothing else to compare it to. Hopefully it was money well spent! Not sure my current PC has the power to upsample HQPlayer to DSD256 so I may not be able to get the most out of it but I'll do my best Might also have to take Friday off from work!

[Franatic]

I received my upgraded(9038) DAC last night. It sounds fantastic right out of the box. I am using USB input with my very developed usb transport system(PPA V4 > intona > RUR > iPrurifier 2). Very engaging and musical with an increased command and presence. Great clarity and detail. I imagine the depth and soundstage will increase as it burns in, but it is already very impressive and a clear upgrade over its previous 9018 incarnation.

 

I was not able to get the i2s to work. I tried the normal, the left justified and the right justified settings in the W4S setup with no luck. The switches on the SU-1 are in the off(default) position, which matches the PS Audio protocol. I was told somewhere that W4S follows the same protocol, but I can not find documentation. If anyone knows please share here. I will contact Wyred, do research, and see if I can get the i2s working this weekend. I will post here if I do.

[Franatic]

I received my upgraded(9038) DAC last night. It sounds fantastic right out of the box. I am using USB input with my very developed usb transport system(PPA V4 > intona > RUR > iPrurifier 2). Very engaging and musical with an increased command and presence. Great clarity and detail. I imagine the depth and soundstage will increase as it burns in, but it is already very impressive and a clear upgrade over its previous 9018 incarnation.

 

I was not able to get the i2s to work. I tried the normal, the left justified and the right justified settings in the W4S setup with no luck. The switches on the SU-1 are in the off(default) position, which matches the PS Audio protocol. I was told somewhere that W4S follows the same protocol, but I can not find documentation. If anyone knows please share here. I will contact Wyred, do research, and see if I can get the i2s working this weekend. I will post here if I do.

 

The SU-1 mentioned is the Singxer SU-1 audio bridge. Its role is to convert usb to i2s.

[Wyred 4 Sound]

I received my upgraded(9038) DAC last night. It sounds fantastic right out of the box. I am using USB input with my very developed usb transport system(PPA V4 > intona > RUR > iPrurifier 2). Very engaging and musical with an increased command and presence. Great clarity and detail. I imagine the depth and soundstage will increase as it burns in, but it is already very impressive and a clear upgrade over its previous 9018 incarnation.

 

I was not able to get the i2s to work. I tried the normal, the left justified and the right justified settings in the W4S setup with no luck. The switches on the SU-1 are in the off(default) position, which matches the PS Audio protocol. I was told somewhere that W4S follows the same protocol, but I can not find documentation. If anyone knows please share here. I will contact Wyred, do research, and see if I can get the i2s working this weekend. I will post here if I do.

@Franatic,

We do internal I2S tests here using a PS Audio PWT, so the pin configuration should work with other products configured as PS Audio. Not sure why it wouldn’t? Perhaps a setting in the Singxer needs to be adjusted?

I’m not sure I gave you this information before, here is the pin config for our I2S:

https://wyred4sound.com/faq/what-dac-2-dsd-dsdse-i2s-pin-configuration

 

Let us know if you have any other questions. Ultimately, if needed you can send both units here and we can take a look.

[JBNY]

The SU-1 mentioned is the Singxer SU-1 audio bridge. Its role is to convert usb to i2s.

 

I am interested to read if the SU-1 makes a real difference. I am currently using a mircoRendu power by an Uptone JS-2 into the RUR into the DAC2-DSDse and I really don't feel cleaning up the connection to the W4S DAc is going to make more of a substantial improvement. I notice that most people using the SU-1 are doing so with a PC or MAC as their front end, and I can see how it might help in those environments. But once you get the PC/MAC out of the system I have found that a lot of the tweaks that used to be needed to get good sound don't make as much of a difference anymore.

 

I am also another one holding out to see if the new upgrades make a large enough improvement to warrant spending the money.

[Franatic]

@Franatic,

We do internal I2S tests here using a PS Audio PWT, so the pin configuration should work with other products configured as PS Audio. Not sure why it wouldn’t? Perhaps a setting in the Singxer needs to be adjusted?

I’m not sure I gave you this information before, here is the pin config for our I2S:

https://wyred4sound.com/faq/what-dac-2-dsd-dsdse-i2s-pin-configuration

 

Let us know if you have any other questions. Ultimately, if needed you can send both units here and we can take a look.

 

Thanks, Tony. I didn't spend a lot of time last night trying to figure out why the i2s wasn't playing properly. The result I got was the left channel only playing and that was incredibly noisy. I am sure it is some configuration issue. I went to the usb rather quickly because I wanted to hear music. I will spend more time this weekend and figure out the issue.

[rah50]

Quick report after receiving my upgraded Dac2 DSDse back yesterday.

 

1. Much better presence and body.

2. Better detail.

3. Soundstage about the same as before, which is the weakest part of my system, still working on this.

4. Volume seems about 5 or 6 points higher for the same display level as before (by ear, not measured)

5. Minor bug in display as 48k DSD128 reads DSD256.

6. BIG DISAPPOINTMENT: Still limited to DSD 128 DOP from my MicroRendu which is basically just Linux, should be DSD256!

 

Hope Tony can get DSD256 with the MicroRendu. I'll be happy to loan him mine to test with.

[ksalno]

Thanks, Tony. I didn't spend a lot of time last night trying to figure out why the i2s wasn't playing properly. The result I got was the left channel only playing and that was incredibly noisy. I am sure it is some configuration issue. I went to the usb rather quickly because I wanted to hear music. I will spend more time this weekend and figure out the issue.

 

Please let us know what you discover. My upgraded DAC2v2SE shipped today, so expecting by the middle of next week. I have an SU-1 and Hydra-Z both with external PS ready and waiting. Hopefully, I can get at least one of them to work :-)

 

BTW, props to W4S for offering this upgrade. I have two other DACs that were replaced by essential the same box with the 9038 chip and neither offered an upgrade. Only a trade-in at less than half the cost of a new model.

[audio.bill]

Has any consideration been made for having these new DACs support MQA? Please let's not get into a debate about the merits of MQA here, as there are other threads already active on that topic. Just curious whether full MQA decoding has been considered as a possibility with these DACs. TIA!

[rah50]

Update:

 

Sorry to report but my upgraded dac can't sustain DSD256 for over 30 minutes or so.

 

Since my MicroRendu couldn't do DSD256 at all, I brought out my Win NAA machine. All good for a little while. Then hissing increasing from the right speaker and a pulsing coming from the left.

 

I'll report this to EJ & Tony first thing Monday. Hope no one else has this problem.

[Franatic]

Tonight I retried the Singxer SU-1 > i2s > W4s method and it worked. It must have been my setup in the W4S when I tried it last night. It sounds exquisite. Another level of refinement from straight usb input. Imaging is HD clear and background is jet black. This is the most relaxed and organic my system has ever sounded. Inner details in the music I've never heard before. So realistic it has startled me several times. I'm going to be up late tonight......can't stop listening.

SU-1 setup is all switches off(default) and W4S i2s menu setting in normal. My SU-1 has the Sound Affairs Plixir Elite BDC power supply modification https://www.mysoundaffairs.com/collections/modifications/products/singxer-su-1-with-plixir-elite-bdc-modification

 

I am using a Wireworld Starlight 7 HDMI cable in a 0.3 meter length. I think this is a very good cable for i2s audio. It is extremely well made and I like the very short length.

 

This whole new configuration needs a good burn-in period. I can't imagine how much better it will sound. I can heartily recommend this setup.

[spockfish]

Quick report after receiving my upgraded Dac2 DSDse back yesterday.

 

1. Much better presence and body.

2. Better detail.

3. Soundstage about the same as before, which is the weakest part of my system, still working on this.

4. Volume seems about 5 or 6 points higher for the same display level as before (by ear, not measured)

5. Minor bug in display as 48k DSD128 reads DSD256.

6. BIG DISAPPOINTMENT: Still limited to DSD 128 DOP from my MicroRendu which is basically just Linux, should be DSD256!

 

Hope Tony can get DSD256 with the MicroRendu. I'll be happy to loan him mine to test with.

 

Yeah the last one is the same issue I have with my DAC2v2. It requires first a firmware update, and secondly a change to the Linux kernel. The last part is the easy one: this is done in the community, and in general the guys from Sonore pull these patches in.

 

The biggest problem here is the firmware update. I've asked W4S multiple times when, but I did not get a definitive answer or even confirmation that this will be taken care off.

[Franatic]

Last night I reported a playback issue with i2s. Tonight it worked beautifully. Both statements are true. I figured out the issue. i2s works perfectly with DSD64 and DSD128, which is all I played for a while tonight. Unfortunately, i2s is not working in my setup with PCM. When playing 96khz flac via i2s I get garbled sound and only in one speaker and the display flashes DSD 256. It seems the problem resides in the W4S. I can play the 96khz flac into the W4S coax input from the Singxer SU-1 no problem. It also sounds great but I want to play all files via i2s. I will investigate some more this weekend.

[Franatic]

I did some more investigating of the Singxer SU-1 i2s issue with my W4S DAC. Working through issues is cumbersome when you are using Bug Head and your audio pc is in core mode. After hours of playing around and troubleshooting I've gotten a clearer idea of the issues.

 

1) Playing DSD via the Singxer i2s output works great and is fantastic.......I mean outrageously good............super fantastic!!

 

2) Playing PCM via i2s has issues.

    a) The audio only plays in one channel and is very distorted. This audio is identified by the W4S as DSD, but is not. The Singxer has a dislay LED for DSD and it does not illuminate.

    b) After stopping PCM playback via i2s, the Singxer SU-1 will not start playback the next time a playback is started. This only occurs with PCM playing and i2s selected on the W4S menu. The Singxer needs to be power cycled to return to normal functionality.

    c) If you select Coax or AES and play PCM, the Singxer has no issue. When I do this I can leave the i2s cable conected between the SU-1 and W4S and it causes no problem.

 

*****Note 1:The problem only occurs with i2s selected on the W4S and PCM playing. The Singxer doesn't care what is connected to it because there is no output selector switch. So I can have the i2s cable connected but if I don't select i2s on the W4S menu, no problem occurs. It seems to be caused by the W4S, but I am going to pass this to Wyred at this point for technical support. I wonder if anybody else is using i2s with the SU-1/W4S or if I'm the first. It will be interesting to find what ksalno discovers when he gets his dac back from upgrade.

 

******** Note 2: PS Audio designates pins 15 and 16 of the HDMI i2s connector as used and labels them SCL and SDA. Singxer uses them and labels them as DSD ON outputs. W4S has them labeled not used. Since the problem is that PCM is labeled as DSD on the Wyred, this may have something to do with the issue. I obviously need technical support to go further in investigating this issue.

Here is the i2s protocol page:

http://screencast.com/t/vr7t2RNg

Also here is the Singxer manual, note page 9

 

I am very excited about the sound quality of the i2s DSD. I am determined to get the i2s PCM working.

SU-1 digital interface user manual _20160708.pdf

[KDinsmore]

I received mine on Friday. Breaking it in as I write. Sounds great and have has zero issues. I'll report back after 100 hours. Even now I notice some pretty big improvement changes all-around.